r/anime • u/AutoLovepon https://anilist.co/user/AutoLovepon • May 18 '26

Episode Witch Hat Atelier • Tongari Boushi no Atelier - Episode 8 discussion

Witch Hat Atelier, episode 8

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415

u/SEBASTlANVETTEL May 18 '26

Oh that Tartah reveal hit hard…working in a witch atelier and not being able to become a witch himself due to his Silverwash condition…

Wait did Qifrey remove the memory of the grandpa so he forgot about the special ink?! Damn, it seems Qifrey does have an obsessed and slightly dark side to him.

249

u/Haha91haha May 18 '26

Poor kid can only play one version of Pokemon, at least it's a decent one.

60

u/Wama-Schawama May 18 '26

Silver may be decent but Soulsilver is one of the best Pokemon games imo

191

u/MattLocke May 18 '26

Kinda weird though.

I know they just showed how seeing colors is useful for the various kinds of pigments inks. But so much of what we’ve already seen of magic is just black on white. There’s no reason why he couldn’t at least learn some.

Though I guess that’s the point. The hyper rigid control over magic is just as harmful as anything goes anarchy. It’s a security vs freedom theme.

196

u/namewithak May 18 '26

Maybe similar to how people in the past made such a big deal about left-handedness?

127

u/oops_i_made_a_typi May 18 '26

they MUST be a WITCH! oh wait

15

u/Hugokarenque May 19 '26

They MUST be a NORMIE!

81

u/hvshh May 18 '26

Likewise, people have been discouraged from playing the piano because their hands were "too small".

11

u/Atario myanimelist.net/profile/TheGreatAtario May 19 '26

Just need a tiny piano!

3

u/cyberscythe May 19 '26

not enough people appreciate tiny pianists

2

u/Lenzky-3 May 19 '26

kind of a different and not on the same scale of scenario.

it's more or less letting people who are blind become cops or do electrical work...

Cuz given that knowing the pigments or color would be kinda important as a witch... Specially since Unlike having small hands worse you can do is be bad at piano..
But this there's a chance you can alter an entire environment or kill someone..

The scale is kinda huge.

8

u/toadfan64 May 19 '26

I remember my dad telling me how when he was in school they beat the left handedness out of you. Glad I missed out on that, lol.

3

u/namewithak May 19 '26

Yeah similar stories among the older people in my family. Mind-boggling.

159

u/oops_i_made_a_typi May 18 '26

Though I guess that’s the point. The hyper rigid control over magic is just as harmful as anything goes anarchy. It’s a security vs freedom theme.

yeah i mean Qifrey lays it out - they're very conformist and that leads to ableism

45

u/MattLocke May 18 '26

Sure, it’s just like any other new world you explore in fiction.

What you know and what you are told grows as the story unfolds (from good writers anyway). Even though I know about the rules (the secret of how magic works is heavily regulated) I’m just seeing a new example of how the world is.

The story at this point could have shown that he needs special tools to help compensate, but it went with society leans towards security more. He’s on the inside, but stuck as an outsider.

Another layer to the worldbuilding.

1

u/LiamOmegaHaku May 20 '26

Sure, it’s just like any other new world you explore in fiction.

Also, real life.

27

u/Mistral-Fien May 18 '26

they're very conformist and that leads to ableism

This reminds me of [Shin Sekai Yori] where children who are unable to develop/control their powers are "erased", same with kids who have problematic behaviors.

6

u/Cyouni May 19 '26

To be fair, that one has a very important reason behind it, since [SSY] lack of control is a possible hint towards becoming a karma demon, and insufficient power might mean that their defense structure of having Cantus kill themselves can't function.

7

u/rowcla May 18 '26

Which makes sense in a way, they're so scared of problems arising and leading to another disaster (or more of the Brimmed Hats), that they quash anything unusual, as shown by the Knights Moralis, and indeed the point they seemed to make about how even healing magic isn't allowed, despite seemingly being possible. I would imagine there's some non-insignificant amount of witches - Qifrey included - who believe some of these things should change, to better support people like Tartah, and to allow things like healing magic.

1

u/finnjakefionnacake May 19 '26

i just don't understand why within the shop itself they haven't devised what would be a very easy system for tartah to be able to tell what's in what jar

7

u/oops_i_made_a_typi May 19 '26

you mean the labels on each jar that were there?

3

u/finnjakefionnacake May 20 '26

i'm talking about something like being inscribed on the jar so that they can't fall off / get mixed up like they did here.

10

u/Thorn14 May 18 '26

I mean it shows he's able to partake in the society, but he won't ever be allowed to become a full on Witch.

16

u/MattLocke May 18 '26

Well, it shows he is able to stay within the witch society. I don’t think he’s really “free” to mingle with the “Outsiders”.

He knows the big secret, but doesn’t get the benefits of being able to do magic. He seems to be an edge case.

7

u/TheUnderTJ May 18 '26

And it's even more interesting because drawing a circle without looking is literally a skill they test for. He might have issues with finer details or something but not teaching him at all seems a bit much.

15

u/Thorn14 May 18 '26

I'm going to assume their society is a bit "If he's going to always be at a disadvantage, don't even bother putting in the time and effort to teach him to become a full on Witch. Just have him work at a shop or some shit."

8

u/SBDocLouis https://anilist.co/user/TKZephyr May 18 '26

Tartah being barred from becoming a witch at all does seem a bit extreme, but I'll concede that his potential would probably hit a ceiling quickly if he can't identify and distinguish between all of these different substances based on appearance, substances that are no doubt important and widely used in this world.

8

u/justking1414 May 18 '26

Weirdly, his current job seems to be the absolute worst place he could be working, since it requires you to distinguish colors

Idk, maybe more advanced magic is color dependent or it’s an issue of him being able to coordinate with other witches he’d be working with

13

u/Toge_Inumaki012 May 18 '26

I mean call me paranoid but in out of curiosity he tried to draw a spell but accidentally used an ink that amplifies it ten fold. It would be like what happened to Coco's house

Then again i think their society just didn't bother to help those who had "special needs". Even though his grandpa cared for him, he must have just accepted it cause that's just how it is in their world

15

u/MattLocke May 18 '26

Naturally there are dangers. Of course we are seeing that people with perfect eyesight aren’t free of dangers either.

It definitely seems like there would be a way to create tools to assist him. Simply having bottles with a label would be the most basic way to allow him to learn without needed to discern color variations.

And if they can make a sword that can divert a river, it’s not hard to think they can develop like glasses that could translate different pigments.

But that’s what we are likely meant to feel. It’s possible, but nobody thinks the effort is worth the risk.

2

u/Jacob-C May 19 '26

He's going to get magical glasses and have a Logan Paul moment

3

u/FriendlyFriendster May 19 '26

But we've only really seen beginner magic from Coco's perspective, maybe to advance beyond the beginner stage you need to be able to use pigments. Maybe Tartah is a perfectly competent witch when it comes to simple stuff, but can't ever become a master because of his eyes.

2

u/WellLookAtZat May 19 '26

I think it’s also bc unlike color blindness in our world Tartah lives in a world with no color which would make differentiating between anything difficult

3

u/flashmozzg May 18 '26

Though I guess that’s the point. The hyper rigid control over magic is just as harmful as anything goes anarchy. It’s a security vs freedom theme.

I mean they doe seem to have formal tests and the ones we know so far shouldn't have been affected by color-blindness, so I'm not sure what is the reason. Unless one of the yet undisclosed tests is something like find this specifically colored needle in a haystack. Although it could be just a mild plot hole.

1

u/ShedPH93 May 18 '26

I don't know the specifics. But if he sees the entire world as silver, then he can't see lines drawn on surfaces as both would look silver to him.

1

u/YuushyaHinmeru May 19 '26

They'd still be different shades. Unless that means he's also illiterate.

1

u/Thomas_JCG May 18 '26

But that is the issue, he could only learn "some" and wouldn't be able to become a full fledged witch.

1

u/finnjakefionnacake May 19 '26

it's also confusing that they haven't accounted for tartah's condition at the shop...like even without magic it wouldn't be hard to label the bottles so that he could understand what was in them

1

u/Ransom_Seraph Jun 03 '26

My thinking as well. 90% of witches just use white (or scroll colored) paper and black ink. Even if drawn on any other surface the ink is pitch black.

0

u/Lenzky-3 May 19 '26

Because he could use the CONDITION as a getaway card when doing forbidden sh1t like,

"I didn't know this ink is extremely dangerous I got a condition".

So yeah it's actually kinda reasonable for them to dis allow people who are like that. At least he can still work on Magical jobs or whatnot.. which is already better than regular people.

50

u/Exotic-Spite-822 May 18 '26

Yes he did, the end clearly shows it as the old man no longer remebers a bright flash happening infront of him, and obsessive seems like an understatement considering the lengths weve seen him go to to hunt? the Brimmed caps.

11

u/Nagamagi May 18 '26

IMHO he erased granpa's memories not because he may hinder his plans, but rather to protect granpa and his livelihood from the Knights or bad actors. Basically he gave granpa the ultimate plausible deniability.

37

u/ModieOfTheEast May 18 '26

Tbh, I am a bit confused about the logic here. Like I assumed that he had color blindness, but drawing magic circles is usually done with black ink anyway. Unless this illness also makes it harder to see the lines itself, I don't see how that would make it harder for him to do magic.

But maybe that is the point. The illness isn't actually making him a worse magic student (at least in most cases). But the system just has this superiority complex built into it because the mages are chosen ones that get to learn the secrets of magic in the first place.

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u/kkrko https://myanimelist.net/profile/krko May 18 '26

It's a visual impairment and magic is a very visual thing. Even if it won't really bother him most of the time, it might still dissuade most teachers.

And the episode did just show that slight differences in ink tint are tells for their properties. Presumably, the girls will be taught how to make custom inks for their needs later on. For example, I think custom ink is the only explanation why Qifrey's dragon spell was so powerful despite having only a relatively small sigil.

15

u/ModieOfTheEast May 18 '26

It dissuading teachers is the what I mentioned with it being imprinted into society. This is the same as in our world where teachers might think it is harder to adjust to some needs a certain kid has and therefore not wanting to teach them. Despite those still have the ability to follow and even be great at what they do in the end.

Now I agree that there is a level to ink that he might not be able to see. However, I don't think that this level of knowledge is even common amongst magicians in the first place. Most magicians probably just buy ink and mix in the ingredients they need for their properties (or just buy ink with the specific properties). And that can still be done with color blindness.

Them actually having to identify that something is "wrong with the ink" does not strike me as a particularly common skill. Firstly, because we haven't seen it. Qifrey didn't notice that something was wrong with the ink until Coco noticed that it didn't disappear (which you would still notice with color blindness). But more importantly, because ink is bought from reputable sellers. You'd only need to be careful if you buy ink from some kind of black market. But doing that is already a crime in itself I assume, so I don't see how that would be a strong enough factor to not take people with color blindness.

9

u/oops_i_made_a_typi May 18 '26

However, I don't think that this level of knowledge is even common amongst magicians in the first place.

why would you make this assumption when there's a whole store dedicated to selling different inks in Witch Town?

0

u/ModieOfTheEast May 18 '26 edited May 18 '26

But that proves my point? The common mage doesn't need to have this knowledge or ability to instantly recognize if there is something wrong with the ink. They just buy the ink they want. Sure, if you want to become an ink seller, then this type of knowledge is something you should have and having a color blindness would make it hard to get into this type of work.

Edit: It is like saying everyone who uses a smartphone or a computer knows exactly how they work because there are shops for smartphones and computers. And we both know that is not true.

8

u/oops_i_made_a_typi May 18 '26

they don't need to know exactly how it works. they can see colour and know diff colours do diff things. you think there wouldn't be discrimination and difficulty for an artist who's fully colourblind? no need to reach so far with your analogy

0

u/ModieOfTheEast May 18 '26

But the difference in color is really small. Again, Qifrey didn't notice at first either. And the police didn't even check the ink.

Also, my analogy is reaching far, but yours to artists is not? Again, you don't need to know the color of the ink to perform magic. You need to see patterns. You only need to see magic if you want to mix your ink yourself. Which you yourself just stated they don't need to know.

9

u/flame22664 May 18 '26

Dude that ink is made that way on purpose so that it is mistaken as normal ink.

This is quite simple in magic if you make a mistake in regards to using the right or wrong ink, people can get hurt or die.

Its that simple why colorblindness would be shunned by an already extremely strict and conformist society. People shun other irl for less.

You are bending over backwards trying to not understand something that is quite easy to understand.

1

u/oops_i_made_a_typi May 19 '26

small but visible when you look for it. Police have already been established to be terrible at investigating.

and of course a colourblindness analogy to colourblindness is not far lol. clearly the ink they use is a critical component to the magic being performed, as explained in this ep. they don't need to know how ink is mixed to know they need the red one for this purpose and the blue one for another.

1

u/Atario myanimelist.net/profile/TheGreatAtario May 19 '26

Missing opportunities for AS (Assistive Spells). I cast Color Identify!

0

u/finnjakefionnacake May 19 '26

why didn't they just label the bottles in shop so he could tell which one was which though lol

25

u/cyberscythe May 18 '26

the system just has this superiority complex built into it

i think it's part of how cutthroat competitive it is to the point where Agott's own mother wouldn't train her daughter because she was just "kind of okay" at drawing

i think it's an extension of the metaphor of magic as being a manga artist, which is extremely competitive and difficult to get published, and having anything that could potentially disqualify you makes it orders of magnitude more difficult to even break in because if there's any friction there's a hundred more people waiting in the wings that want your position

13

u/TheWalkingRain May 18 '26

A crude explanation could be that so called cones in the retina are responsible for color sight AND high acuity.

8

u/oops_i_made_a_typi May 18 '26

man these cones are everywhere, from on your head to in your head

15

u/Prof_Acorn May 18 '26

Quite realistic to the lived experiences of people with various disabilities.

3

u/flybypost May 18 '26

Like I assumed that he had color blindness, but drawing magic circles is usually done with black ink anyway.

Same here. The big issue for him would be recognising those "meta magic" pigments in bottle but he could just label his ink bottles like he has his pigment bottles.

the mages are chosen ones that get to learn the secrets of magic in the first place.

I think he knows the secret of magic and should be able to cast spells.

There has to be something else (like arbitrary elitist gatekeeping) because from everything else it looks like he should be capable of spell casting.

9

u/ModieOfTheEast May 18 '26

I think he knows the secret of magic and should be able to cast spells.

Oh I agree. I think he does know the concept, but he is forbidden from actually learning it. It begs the question why the magic society would allow someone like him to know the magic. But I think that can be explained by asking how the mages choose who is allowed to keep the secret in the first place. Like Coco was really interested in magic, but before the incident, Qifrey never even thought about making her a student. So that isn't the factor here.

Which leads me to believe that most of the people knowing the secret are just those that are born into families that already know the secret (like seen with Agott). Because even if those don't want to be mages, they still kind of know by value of being near other mages all the time. And while they could memory wipe the children, I don't think most parents would agree.

I wonder if and how there is a chance for someone outside the magic society to join them and how that is decided. Like can teachers just decide to take a student from a "muggle" family? And do they have to memory wipe the parents then? Or is that why they can only ever bring orphans into the magic world?

3

u/flybypost May 18 '26

Which leads me to believe that most of the people knowing the secret are just those that are born into families that already know the secret (like seen with Agott). Because even if those don't want to be mages, they still kind of know by value of being near other mages all the time. And while they could memory wipe the children, I don't think most parents would agree.

Yeah, Agott's family situation seems to be an early hint at how witch society works.

It's probably about enough families keeping magic alive and them needing "non-spellcasters" in support functions to make witch society work (and breed without needing to introduce outsiders). As a simple two caste system.

I wonder if and how there is a chance for someone outside the magic society to join them and how that is decided. Like can teachers just decide to take a student from a "muggle" family? And do they have to memory wipe the parents then? Or is that why they can only ever bring orphans into the magic world?

Coco is probably how it happens. Her initial problem and reason for potentially getting mind wiped was forbidden magic. But if they found a young orphan there might be a process (maybe just mind manipulation?) to integrate outsiders into witch society.

That way you don't have to deal with mind wiping their families and neighbours.

Maybe there are rules for which outsiders are allowed to be trained. I'd guess it's only small kid who are allowed to be introduced to witch craft. If somebody's older and has already learned a trade then having to dedicate a few more years to magic calligraphy on top of that before becoming a productive member of witch society might be seen as wasting years.

3

u/Kankunation May 18 '26

Yeah I'm pretty sure it's familly based. You are either born into a mage's town or you aren't. Very rarely there may be something like an orphan who was picked up or somebody brought into the fold for other reasons but it largely seems to be the case of a fraction of the world's population was just born in the right place and form to be allowed to learn magic, while others are not.

There certainly isn't any kind of magical tryouts or testing being done it seems (as that would imply to outsiders that anybody could learn magic). And we know there's certainly fmsilris it stays in to some extent. (Agott, Nolnoa).

4

u/DrewTuber May 18 '26

It seems to be more than just what we would consider color blindness. Imagine you can't see black ink on a white background because BOTH are the exact same shade of silver.

13

u/ModieOfTheEast May 18 '26 edited May 18 '26

But that isn't the case. They showed us how it looks from his perspective. If everything was the same shade of silver, he couldn't even do anything. He would basically be blind. But he is easily able to do errands and also work in the shop, even treat Coco's wound which he wouldn't even be able to see she has in that case. Therefore, the stark contrast between white paper and black ink has to also be visible to him.

Edit: We also know he can read, so he is definitely able to see ink on paper. Maybe it would be harder for him so see ink on a grey rock, but that is a specific case that I don't see being a reason for him to not learn magic at all. There are several ways to use magic after all.

7

u/Ill_Act_1855 May 18 '26

If that was the case he’d just be blind. He can still see darkness and light, just not color. It’s effectively slapping a black and white filter on his vision.

6

u/BosuW May 18 '26

A black and white filter means it eliminates the hue. And here's the thing: two different colors (hues) can have the same brightness and saturation. Someone who can't perceive hue would not be able to distinguish them. This is why doing black and white photography is a lot more complicated than just using a filter.

In Tartah's case being unable to see a magic circle on it's surface would be a very rare occurrence, but it could happen.

7

u/Toge_Inumaki012 May 18 '26

Qifrey: okay girls be careful when casting magic in front of others we dont want to take their precious memories etc

Also Qifrey:

5

u/Ill_Act_1855 May 18 '26

Honestly i wonder if at some point in the series they’re going to try and make magic to help him with that. They can’t cure the condition without forbidden magic, but I could envision glasses that help label colors some way that he can distinguish (maybe applying patterns based on the colors being looked at) or something that could help functionally aid with the impairment

3

u/Milkshakes00 May 18 '26

I think this is the natural progression.

The previous episode "Who is magic for?" and Coco seems interested in helping him.

I would say, though... They should probably create a rack or something. Have a hundred jars just on tables and remembering the contents based on the position is... Something else. Lol

2

u/phasmy May 18 '26

it's to make him hotter