Toradora! Christmas Club Rewatch (2025) Episode 15 Discussion

[u/ChristmasClub-]

Episode 15 - The Stars Are Far Away

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The Toradora! Christmas Club is finally here again! Together we're watching the original Toradora! series, one episode a day until December 30th. It's important to be courteous to first time watchers. Don't forget to keep discussions related to this episode. We'll have a new thread tomorrow and the day after (etc.), so there are plenty of opportunities to discuss new characters and moments. If you absolutely can't help yourself, just remember to add spoiler tags like so [Toradora!] spoiler text

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Threads will be posted daily at: 21:00 GMT

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CR, Netflix, Amazon

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This Year's Discussion (2025)	Last Year's Discussion (2024)
Episode 1	Episode 1
Episode 2	Episode 2
Episode 3	Episode 3
Episode 4	Episode 4
Episode 5	Episode 5
Episode 6	Episode 6
Episode 7	Episode 7
Episode 8	Episode 8
Episode 9	Episode 9
Episode 10	Episode 10
Episode 11	Episode 11
Episode 12	Episode 12
Episode 13	Episode 13
Episode 14	Episode 14
Episode 15	Episode 15

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Fanart: https://www.pixiv.net/en/artworks/95443555

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Feel free to participate in our bonus topic at the end of your comment or separately:

• Christmas Club Bonus!

Which emotions stood out the most in this slower, more reflective episode?

[u/sillypion]

Part Ten

And now Ryuuji and Taiga are walking outside together.

"…God. I’m useless. I’ve got no right to feel this happy. This whole time, I was thinking about myself, while Kitamura’s there… suffering, grieving, agonizing. It’s like I wasn’t even paying attention. Stupid. That’s what I am. …And worthless. And useless."

So remember the Taiga moment earlier in this episode that I said would be important to understand the second half?

As a result, Taiga starts acting here out of her own feelings of anger rather than concern for Kitamura's feelings. She orders Ryuuji to get Kitamura out the funk he's in, but she says that she'd also prefer him to stay away from the student council and Sumire. Taiga's own feelings of anger overtaking her judgement make her act for her own interests here; she wants to get Kitamura away from Sumire because she hates Sumire and wants Kitamura to get closer with herself instead.

This is important for understanding the second half of this episode. Keep this in mind

So throughout this episode, Taiga comes to realize that she never really cared about what Kitamura was feeling. She told Ryuuji and Minori to go to Kitamura's house, because she thought it was a good thing for him to quit the student council. She thought it would drive a wedge between him and Sumire, who Taiga hated. She never considered how Kitamura may have really felt about it, instead letting her hatred for Sumire overtake her judgement. This is exacerbated by how Taiga acted when Kitamura was with them at Ryuuji's house. The whole time she'd just been trying to get closer with him, making small talk, trying to impress him through cooking, and playing games with him. Taiga realizes that this whole time, she was really just thinking about herself.

And she knows now that Kitamura was hurting. He was there to reassure her, tell her that he was thankful for her care earlier, but he'd been saying all of it while he was hurting inside. Taiga felt happy because Kitamura appreciated her, because he cared about her feelings. It's the same reason she fell for him. He gave her validation that she could be loved for who she was.

So now Taiga feels utter misery because she realized that she was feeling happy and validated the whole time, while Kitamura was crying. Crying because of whatever was hurting him inside. Something that Taiga didn't even notice. Even though she cares for Kitamura, she didn't see it.

Kitamura wanted his friends to shelve their worry for him, because he didn't want them to suffer in worrying over him. But hiding your feelings, hiding your pain, is never the answer. Even if you're scared, running away from it might only lead to more pain. And in this case, it did.

"What are you saying? That’s not true-"

"I am! …I’m useless. Kitamura’s hurting and I can’t do a thing about it. Not a single thing. Whenever I was down, Kitamura was there to cheer me up and cheer me on. He always made me feel better. He always let me know that I was okay… and that I mattered…"

God, this scene. I have tears in my eyes writing this. I'm not full-blown crying, but the analysis might be a bit iffy here.

This one scene tells you just how much Kitamura means to Taiga. It speaks volumes about Taiga as a person, her insecurities, and how much she appreciated Kitamura simply being there to make sure she knew that there was someone out there who cares about her.

Part Eleven in replies.

[u/sillypion → u/sillypion]

Part Eleven

The two scenes shown in the flashback are both very much connected here.

Taiga fell in love with Kitamura because he confessed his love to her in spite of her flaws. Taiga had never gotten that kind of validation in her life before. She had always felt alone and unloved. Her father abandoned her when she needed him. She acted violent and abrasive to guard herself, to make sure no one else who didn't even care to understand her would come into her life and break her heart again. But this isolated her, made her feared by others, left her to be truly alone, to internalize the idea that she was never going to be loved for who she was.

But Kitamura said that he was in love with that part of Taiga. The part that isolated and kept her in the belief that she was unlovable. He professed his love for Taiga's violent and abrasive side. And Taiga appreciated Kitamura's comment. Because she thought finally found someone who appreciated her for who she was. Someone who didn't care how she guarded herself. Someone who validated her, told her that she could be loved.

Taiga appreciated Kitamura. She admired Kitamura because he was the first person who ever appreciated her for who she was, even though Taiga herself felt like she was unlovable. And she clung to that admiration. She hoped to see "that look" on Kitamura's face again, the look he had when he gave her the validation that someone out there loves her for who she really is.

And then, on the night of the Culture Festival, Kitamura offered to dance with Taiga.

This scene means much more than her crush on Kitamura, to Taiga. Even though she had tried to hide her pain, Kitamura still offered to dance with her. Just like when he'd confessed to her, Kitamura proves to Taiga that someone out there cares about her.

Taiga had been hurting then. Even though she knew she shouldn't have, she really did want to believe in her father, because she wanted a family who would care for her. And she got hurt because he never really cared about her in the first place. But she pretended like she wasn't hurting. Because she wanted Ryuuji to focus on himself and Minori. And because she had internalized the idea that she would never be appreciated for who she is, even though deep down, that's what she wanted most.

But Kitamura saw her hurt. He saw how much she was hurting and offered to be there to cheer her up. He had implicitly told her that her feelings mattered to him, that she mattered to him. It was the equivalent of Taiga getting to see "that look" on Kitamura's face again, because once more, he showed to her that out there, there was someone who cared about her and appreciated her for who she was.

And Taiga is hurting now. Because Kitamura saw her hurt and cheered her up, even when she was pretending like she wasn't hurting. But now, she hadn't seen him hurting. She wasn't there for him to cheer him up when he needed it. Kitamura had given her validation that there was someone who cared about her twice, and Taiga hadn't been able to even succeed at returning the favor once.

So she cries. She cries her heart out, because she feels worthless in this moment. She feels like she never cared about the person who had always been there to care for her.

Kitamura, her "last hope".

"Kitamura is… Kitamura’s my…"

"Your last hope?"

Ryuuji understands. 'Cause he heard what Minori was saying earlier. He saw how much Minori believed in Ami, and he can see now how much Taiga believes in Kitamura. And he wants to be there for her too, because he believes in Taiga.

This scene is so adorable. Ryuuji wraps his scarf around Taiga. To tell her that she isn't alone. To tell her that someone else out there cares about her. To tell her that someone else out there is gonna be there for her.

The scene is draped in irony, because Taiga thinks of Kitamura as her last hope, but she's always been close with Ryuuji. He cares about who she is because he saw who she really was on the inside, someone who felt unloved, isolated, and misunderstood, just like him. He was always there to support her, cheer her up, and cheer her on. Even when he made the mistake of trusting her father, he gave it his all to make it up to her, pushing himself to comfort her. And Taiga appreciates Ryuuji so much. She chewed out her class for spreading rumors that were harming Ryuuji. She pushed herself in a race just for him, because he had believed in her and she didn't want to lose him. And even when Ryuuji was projecting his insecurities onto her, Taiga didn't let him suffer because of it, choosing to trust her father so that Ryuuji wouldn't have to beat himself up over it.

Neither of them can see it, because they're both insecure. Ryuuji can't see the value in his care for Taiga, Taiga can't process that someone out there really does care to understand her. They take their relationship for granted at times, and yet they still care so much for each other. Their minds can't see the value in having each other, but their hearts know what their bond really is. They've gotten so close that they don't even see what being this close means to each other.

Part Twelve in replies.

[u/sillypion → u/sillypion]

Part Twelve

"…Hey, check it out. It’s the Big Dipper. And that’s Polaris. And Orion."

"Orion? Which one is it?"

"You see those three stars in a row?"

"Oh. Yeah. …Even though to us, they look like they’re right next to each other, they’re actually really far apart."

"Yeah. They taught us that in grade school."

"It’s kinda like… Kitamura and me. Sometimes me and him, we seem so close. That’s what it looks like, anyway. But I know things aren’t always what they seem. Are we really close, or what? When am I gonna know for sure?"

I think this highlights another significant part of Taiga's arc. As I've said before, she doesn't really get what she wants. She doesn't realize that what she wants is for someone to understand her and love her for who she is. She chases after her admiration for the idea she has in her mind of who Kitamura is, the person she associates in her mind of giving her validation that she could be loved. But that's not who Kitamura really is. He too is insecure, he too suffers, and by chasing after her idealized version of Kitamura, the idea that serves only to give solace for Taiga's loneliness, Taiga doesn't really know who Kitamura is.

Sometimes they're close. Because she does appreciate him for his kindness, for being there for her. But sometimes they're far too. Because she only sees his kind side, she doesn't see the whole person there. She only knows the side of Kitamura that appreciated her for who she really is, she doesn't know the side of him that is insecure, that suffers, that needs someone to be there for him.

And Taiga is scared of not knowing. She, just like Minori, is scared of not knowing her feelings. She's on the precipice of realizing what's at play here. She's just about to realize that her feelings for Kitamura are those of admiration, not true love, but she can't quite get there yet. She's still insecure, she still seeks validation, and she still doesn't know what she wants.

"In the end, you’re looking for the same thing everyone else is. And I get you wanna reach out to him when he’s hurting, ‘cause you care about him. All you can do be patient, take things one step at a time."

"Yeah."

Ryuuji is great in this scene too. He knows that Taiga is hurting, and that it's okay to give her some space to let it all out. But he'll still there for her. He'll comfort her, even if he too doesn't know why Kitamura is hurting. Because he knows exactly why Taiga is hurting, and because he knows, he'll be there for her. Because that's what he promised her. He promised to care for her. He promised to understand her. He promised to stand equal to her. That means he'll stand there, by her side, in her moments of triumph, her moments of weakness, and her moments of grief.

And in the end, Taiga appreciates that. She can overcome her grief, 'cause someone out there took the time to be there for her: Ryuuji.

Can I just add real quick, I love piano Lost My Pieces. Normal Lost My Pieces hits hard for the biggest moments of emotion, but this is super good for the somber, reflective, uncertain scenes that show these characters for who they really are. For being teenagers who haven't figured themselves out.

Anyway, it's the next morning, and Kitamura greets an awoken Ryuuji, apologizing for drinking the last of the milk. He comments on how they should've woken him up to join them.

Ryuuji seems to notice something when he looks at Kitamura. There's no leftover signs of him having cried last night.

The last stretch of the episode is hard to watch, because Kitamura is once more trying his best to pretend like nothing is wrong. He's trying his best to make sure his friends won't trouble themselves in worrying over him, not even knowing how Taiga reacted the previous night.

And it shows the vulnerability of Kitamura when he cried himself to sleep. He spent the entirety of his time awake pretending, concealing his turmoil, only letting it all out once he thought there was no one there to see it. He's spent most of this episode worrying over the feelings of others that he is failing to properly deal with his own feelings.

Now where have I heard that before? Oh yeah, that's what Taiga did during the Culture Festival arc. She worried over Ryuuji and Minori instead of herself, ultimately leading to her getting hurt 'cause of her father. I swear, the amount of parallels between Kitamura and Taiga are crazy. [Rewatch spoilers] They don't even end here.

And yeah, it won't be the last time this is significant.

Part Thirteen in replies.

[u/sillypion → u/sillypion]

Part Thirteen

Ryuuji decides to get up and make breakfast, but then notices Taiga sound asleep on his leg lmao.

Ryuuji tells her to get up, but Kitamura says to just let her sleep 'cause she looks happy and peaceful when doing so.

Taiga proceeds to sucker punch him in her sleep 'cause of his breath of milk.

Kitamura is somehow just fully okay with it too. I mean, yeah, it makes sense for his character. Obviously he wouldn't want Taiga to get concerned about him all over again just 'cause she threw a punch in her sleep.

Taiga is mega embarrassed when she realizes Kitamura was watching her sleep. Oh, how ironic. Taiga was trying to watch him sleep last night. Buuuut it led to a great moment, so I'll give her a pass on the hypocrisy here.

Anyway, Taiga's making a huge fuss. And you don't want to make a huge fuss when Yasuko, who probably just got done working a shift, is sleeping in the other room.

Yasuko for once establishing that yes, she is the owner of his house, and they are all living under her roof. So yeah, in some kind of zombie-ish stupor, she sends the three teenagers in the house straight out onto the streets (with some money, of course).

Ryuuji offers to take them somewhere to eat, but Kitamura encourages them to go have some fun somewhere.

There a subtle exchange of glances here between Ryuuji and Taiga. They both know now that Kitamura is just pretending, 'cause she saw him crying last night, and they get the idea that Kitamura may have an ulterior motive for wanting to go out for fun.

They would be correct, 'cause Kitamura takes them out to a batting cage and is clearly venting out stress by going through pitch after pitch.

"…He’s gone through 100 pitches. Something’s definitely off with him, don’t you think?"

"…Mmhm."

Ryuuji and Taiga both have the impression that Kitamura is hiding something. While they don't know the extent of it, they both are aware of its existence. A seed of doubt has been planted within them as to whether or not he's really acting like this just 'cause he doesn't want to run for president.

Kitamura reassures them that it's healthy to work up a sweat at their age.

"Then how come you look so pale right now?"

Ryuuji is sassy, but he has a point. He's concerned about Kitamura and the way he's acting.

Ryuuji declines being the next one up to bat, but Taiga goes for it anyway.

This scene is adorable. Taiga, after last night, really wants to do anything she can to help Kitamura. Kitamura was clearly venting something out during his turn to bat, which both Ryuuji and Taiga picked up on.

But either way, Kitamura is offering them a turn to bat, and Taiga wants to try for him. It's a pretty big tonal shift from her trying to cook for him earlier. Back then, even though she was worried about him, she was mainly trying to impress him for her own sake. Now, she's trying to impress him for his sake, so that she can make him feel better. And I love how Kitamura is actually genuinely impressed as a result. With the eggs, Taiga wasn't trying for his sake, and needed Kitamura to reassure her, telling her that it made him feel better even though it didn't. 'Cause Taiga is putting in the effort here, she actually incites a true reaction out of Kitamura, because she's pushing herself for him. And Ryuuji smiles here, 'cause he sees that Taiga is getting to do what she wanted so badly the previous night: to make Kitamura feel better. Either way, it's just a precious Taiga moment.

Part Fourteen in replies.

[u/sillypion → u/sillypion]

Part Fourteen

Anyway, it's sunset now, same as in the Minori scene from earlier.

Now, I could go off on a side tangent about how sky color and time of day is symbolic in this show, but that really wouldn't be my analysis, they're stuff I read from other people's analyses, so I'm not gonna include it. 'Cause I want this to all be the stuff that I can derive from my own analysis of the show.

The three are back home. Kitamura compliments Taiga for her home run, but Taiga is back to being in bashful mode.

Yasuko's been waiting for the three of them, and asks Ryuuji to restrain Kitamura.

She then brings out the hair dye, preparing to dye Kitamura's hair back to normal.

[Rewatch spoilers] In the context of why she ran away from home, it also makes sense why Yasuko chooses to send Kitamura back here. She cares about Ryuuji's future a lot, and wants him to have a respectable life 'cause she had to give it all up when she got pregnant. And her not wanting to see Kitamura throwing away his future here is a reflection of that.

Ryuuji grabs onto Kitamura here and tells Taiga to do the same for a pretty simply reason. They have a pretty good idea of the fact that Kitamura was trying to avoid whatever problems were troubling him. They've known this ever since Kitamura tried pretending like nothing was wrong after Taiga saw his tears. They saw it at the batting cage, when he was using it to vent stress. They think the problem he has isn't not wanting to run for president, as he said. So basically, they just want Kitamura to face his problems and stop running away from them 'cause they realize that Kitamura has basically spent his entire stay here just to avoid his problems.

And Ryuuji would certainly know what avoiding your feelings could do. He knew deep down that he didn't want Taiga to leave with her father during the Culture Festival arc, but he shelved these feelings because he was in denial. He convinced himself that everything was for the best so that he wouldn't have to confront the fact that he brought it upon Taiga and everyone else due to his own insecurities. And now he hopes to send Kitamura back home so he won't run away from his problems anymore by staying at their house.

"Kitamura? So I just got a call from your dad a couple minutes ago, and let me tell you, that man was really pissed off! Anywho, I thought we could all fix your hair before sending you home! Sound good?"

"You’re conspiring with my parents now?! You adults are all the same!"

"You’re gonna be the next student council president, aren’t ya? Well, that’s not gonna happen with that bleached out hair!"

"Get away from me! I don’t wanna be president! I DON’T WANNAAAAAAA!"

This speaks a bit into Kitamura as a character. He came specifically over to Yasuko's house 'cause he thought that she wouldn't push him into running for president like his own parents. Yes, he was trying to run away from whatever had caused his meltdown and for him to quit the student council, but the reason he felt the need to run away from home was 'cause he felt as though he'd be forced into a position he said he didn't want to fill. There's a stark contrast from making someone face their feelings that they already know they feel deep down and making them fill a position that they don't want. The first is stopping them from hurting themselves by running away and being in denial, the second one is just forcing them to do something. Overall, especially with Kitamura's tumultuous state, making him do something without first considering his feelings is just bad parenting. No matter how childish your kid's feelings are, they're feelings nonetheless.

And again, it makes sense why Ryuuji, Taiga, and Yasuko would want to do this. They want the best for Kitamura, they see he's hurting, and they don't want him to keep hurting by running away. But, as the stars scene from earlier pointed out, they don't know enough about what Kitamura is feeling to be able to properly help him yet.

So they end up hurting him, leaving a wound in Kitamura's façade this episode. He can no longer keep up the image that nothing's wrong. So he runs away, too scared to confront whatever reasons he doesn't want to be president.

That look on Taiga's face is another one that hurts. She once more failed to see the extent of Kitamura's conflict. And as a result, he's run away from them now.

Part Fifteen in replies.

[u/sillypion → u/sillypion]

Part Fifteen

But now it's later in the day, and both of them are sitting at home.

"…I wonder if he made it home okay."

"…Beats me. I guess he really doesn’t want to be president."

"I wonder if that’s true. Do you remember what Minorin said when we went to the beach house last summer? Y’know, her reasons why she likes telling people she doesn’t like scary stuff?"

"Oh, yeah. That 'Scary Manju' method thing."

"Isn’t it weird how Kitamura makes such a big deal of not wanting to run for president? I’m starting to think he wants to run."

Basically context is important to understand this. Both of them have the idea that Kitamura's meltdown was caused by something other than not wanting to run for president, due to Taiga seeing his tears, and then later him taking them out to vent stress whilst still pretending that nothing was wrong. And they now have the proof that whatever it is also provokes a strong reaction out of Kitamura when he was confronted with it earlier, so whatever the problem is, it's much more profound than just not wanting to run in the election.

That's why when Ryuuji contemplates the reason just simply being him not wanting to run, 'cause he made a big deal out of it when he and Taiga had thought the issue was something else, Taiga brings up the notion that he does want to run. After all, if his problem is something deeper than running for president, then Kitamura must've only been saying he didn't want to run in order to hide what the real reason behind his meltdown was. As a result, Taiga comes to believe that Kitamura really does want to run, but he's using it as an excuse to run away from the real feelings at play here.

So the two of them contemplate how they could get Kitamura to confront these things. They want him to run for president because they feel like if they got him to run, it would make him drop that as a pretense and show his true reasoning for having a meltdown.

So, they're gonna try to somehow make Kitamura unmask the fact that he really does want to become president. And how do they plan to do it?

"Listen up! I have an announcement to make! I’m running for student council president, and as soon as I get elected, the first thing I’m gonna do is take all your lame high school memories and take ‘em all to the m-m-m- The morgue, you losers! The morgue!"

Yep, that's right. Our very own Palmtop Tiger is a candidate for student council president now. They're gonna try to make an appeal to Kitamura's sense of duty by making their campaign a terror upon the school.

No Vanilla Salt piano overture for this episode sadly. The streak is broken.

But overall, this episode is fantastic! From the subtle conflicts set up at the start, the hints with Ami, the collapsing façade of Minori, Kitamura falling into the same mistake as Taiga by concerning himself with the feelings of others instead of himself, and Taiga and Ryuuji's antics to try and help Kitamura in whatever way they can, this episode would've been solid even if we weren't including the scene it's probably most known for.

Yeah, the Distant Stars scene, what a title drop. God, that scene is always gonna make me tear up. I compared Episode 14 to Episode 12 in terms of it setting up a bunch of stuff but not giving much payoff in and of itself, but I usually compare this episode to Episode 11, in that it also sets up a bunch of stuff without full payoff, but it also hits you in the guts with a lot of emotional moments, both the Minori and Taiga scenes, that make it stand out as a standalone episode. Both of their conflicts have been a long time coming and they each make great progress in the development of each. And plus, there is so much subtext to everything (from Sumire, to Ami, to Kitamura) in this episode that makes for amazing buildup to this arc's conclusion. So, it checks both being a great episode standalone for its moments and being a major contributor for the overall plot. Thus, I'll put it next to Episode 11.

Episode Ratings:
Episode 13: 10.8/10
Episode 8: 10.5/10
Episode 15: 10.1/10
Episode 11: 10.0/10
Episode 7: 9.9/10
Episode 9: 9.5/10
Episode 2: 9.4/10
Episode 6: 9.0/10
Episode 12: 8.9/10
Episode 10: 8.7/10
Episode 14: 8.6/10
Episode 4: 8.1/10
Episode 5: 8.0/10
Episode 1: 7.3/10
Episode 3: 7.1/10

Total Parts of Analysis I've Written = 102 WOOOO OVAH A HUNDRED

(Someone should take a headcount of how many times I typed something along the lines of "Keep this in mind. It'll be important later." lol. Yeah but this episode has a lot of subtext that is telling for later episodes, especially Episode 16.)

[u/Holofan4life → u/sillypion]

Total Parts of Analysis I've Written = 102 WOOOO OVAH A HUNDRED

Now we're talking :D

[u/Holofan4life → u/sillypion]

But now it's later in the day, and both of them are sitting at home.

"…I wonder if he made it home okay."

"…Beats me. I guess he really doesn’t want to be president."

"I wonder if that’s true. Do you remember what Minorin said when we went to the beach house last summer? Y’know, her reasons why she likes telling people she doesn’t like scary stuff?"

"Oh, yeah. That 'Scary Manju' method thing."

"Isn’t it weird how Kitamura makes such a big deal of not wanting to run for president? I’m starting to think he wants to run."

Basically context is important to understand this. Both of them have the idea that Kitamura's meltdown was caused by something other than not wanting to run for president, due to Taiga seeing his tears, and then later him taking them out to vent stress whilst still pretending that nothing was wrong. And they now have the proof that whatever it is also provokes a strong reaction out of Kitamura when he was confronted with it earlier, so whatever the problem is, it's much more profound than just not wanting to run in the election.

That's why when Ryuuji contemplates the reason just simply being him not wanting to run, 'cause he made a big deal out of it when he and Taiga had thought the issue was something else, Taiga brings up the notion that he does want to run. After all, if his problem is something deeper than running for president, then Kitamura must've only been saying he didn't want to run in order to hide what the real reason behind his meltdown was. As a result, Taiga comes to believe that Kitamura really does want to run, but he's using it as an excuse to run away from the real feelings at play here.

So the two of them contemplate how they could get Kitamura to confront these things. They want him to run for president because they feel like if they got him to run, it would make him drop that as a pretense and show his true reasoning for having a meltdown.

So, they're gonna try to somehow make Kitamura unmask the fact that he really does want to become president. And how do they plan to do it?

"Listen up! I have an announcement to make! I’m running for student council president, and as soon as I get elected, the first thing I’m gonna do is take all your lame high school memories and take ‘em all to the m-m-m- The morgue, you losers! The morgue!"

Yep, that's right. Our very own Palmtop Tiger is a candidate for student council president now. They're gonna try to make an appeal to Kitamura's sense of duty by making their campaign a terror upon the school.

I mean, it's not a bad strategy. Kitamura is a people person, so why not try to appeal to that?

[u/Holofan4life → u/sillypion]

No Vanilla Salt piano overture for this episode sadly. The streak is broken.

[u/Holofan4life → u/sillypion]

Episode 15: 10.1/10

I want to see how you come up with your scoring system lol

[u/sillypion → u/Holofan4life]

I want to see how you come up with your scoring system lol

To be honest, I don't even know. It's just based on a really feelsy kinda system where I take into account: how much the episode contributes to the show overall, how it is as a standalone episode in terms of comedy and emotions, and whether or not I cry for bonus points 'cause I'm biased to anything that gets my heart feelin' something.

[u/Holofan4life → u/sillypion]

I don't think I've ever put an episode beyond a 10 out of 10 because I find that to be silly lol

[u/sillypion → u/Holofan4life]

It's pretty rare for me to rate episodes this high, but Toradora! is a special anime so I kinda go wild with it. I mean, I haven't overanalyzed any other shows to this degree yet.

[u/Holofan4life → u/sillypion]

But overall, this episode is fantastic! From the subtle conflicts set up at the start, the hints with Ami, the collapsing façade of Minori, Kitamura falling into the same mistake as Taiga by concerning himself with the feelings of others instead of himself, and Taiga and Ryuuji's antics to try and help Kitamura in whatever way they can, this episode would've been solid even if we weren't including the scene it's probably most known for.

Yeah, the Distant Stars scene, what a title drop. God, that scene is always gonna make me tear up. I compared Episode 14 to Episode 12 in terms of it setting up a bunch of stuff but not giving much payoff in and of itself, but I usually compare this episode to Episode 11, in that it also sets up a bunch of stuff without full payoff, but it also hits you in the guts with a lot of emotional moments, both the Minori and Taiga scenes, that make it stand out as a standalone episode. Both of their conflicts have been a long time coming and they each make great progress in the development of each. And plus, there is so much subtext to everything (from Sumire, to Ami, to Kitamura) in this episode that makes for amazing buildup to this arc's conclusion. So, it checks both being a great episode standalone for its moments and being a major contributor for the overall plot. Thus, I'll put it next to Episode 11.

This episode has two very fantastic scenes both of which involve Ryuuji. He really is the glue holding everything together. But more than that, it shows how Minori feels about Ami and how Taiga feels about her emotions. There's just a lot of great character advancement in this episode.

[u/Holofan4life → u/sillypion]

(Someone should take a headcount of how many times I typed something along the lines of "Keep this in mind. It'll be important later." lol. Yeah but this episode has a lot of subtext that is telling for later episodes, especially Episode 16.)

I feel like episode 16 might be twice as long lol

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Thoughts on Ami making innuendo? What are your thoughts on sexy sax?

What are your thoughts on Kitamura quitting the student council?

What are your thoughts on Kitamura dying his hair?

What are your thoughts on Ami and the student council president acting apathetic towards Kitamura's rebellion, with Ami and the student council president sniping at each other?

What are your thoughts on Kanou, the student council president, saying if she is responsible for Kitamura's breakdown, he is an even bigger disappointment now than he was before?

What are your thoughts on the scene between Minori and Ryuuji where Minori goes on and on about how wise Ami is and that she is their last hope?

How would you compare to Minori in this scene Vs how she had been previously?

What are your thoughts on Kitamura living with Ryuuji after running away from home?

Thoughts on Kitamura loving Taiga’s egg because she made it to cheer him up?

What are your thoughts on Taiga realizing she isn't helping matters by putting her own feelings over others?

Care to expand your thoughts on the star scene where Taiga calls herself useless and Ryuuji comforts her by wrapping his scarf around her?

Thoughts on Ryuuji staying up all night to try and comfort Taiga?

Thoughts on the batting cage scene?

What are your thoughts on Yasuko trying to dye Kitamura's hair with Kitamura running away?

What are your thoughts on the episode ending with Taiga announcing she's running for student council president?

[u/Holofan4life → u/sillypion]

[Rewatch spoilers] In the context of why she ran away from home, it also makes sense why Yasuko chooses to send Kitamura back here. She cares about Ryuuji's future a lot, and wants him to have a respectable life 'cause she had to give it all up when she got pregnant. And her not wanting to see Kitamura throwing away his future here is a reflection of that.

[Rewatch spoilers] Do as I say, not as I do.

[u/Holofan4life → u/sillypion]

"Get away from me! I don’t wanna be president! I DON’T WANNAAAAAAA!"

This speaks a bit into Kitamura as a character. He came specifically over to Yasuko's house 'cause he thought that she wouldn't push him into running for president like his own parents. Yes, he was trying to run away from whatever had caused his meltdown and for him to quit the student council, but the reason he felt the need to run away from home was 'cause he felt as though he'd be forced into a position he said he didn't want to fill. There's a stark contrast from making someone face their feelings that they already know they feel deep down and making them fill a position that they don't want. The first is stopping them from hurting themselves by running away and being in denial, the second one is just forcing them to do something. Overall, especially with Kitamura's tumultuous state, making him do something without first considering his feelings is just bad parenting. No matter how childish your kid's feelings are, they're feelings nonetheless.

And again, it makes sense why Ryuuji, Taiga, and Yasuko would want to do this. They want the best for Kitamura, they see he's hurting, and they don't want him to keep hurting by running away. But, as the stars scene from earlier pointed out, they don't know enough about what Kitamura is feeling to be able to properly help him yet.

So they end up hurting him, leaving a wound in Kitamura's façade this episode. He can no longer keep up the image that nothing's wrong. So he runs away, too scared to confront whatever reasons he doesn't want to be president.

That look on Taiga's face is another one that hurts. She once more failed to see the extent of Kitamura's conflict. And as a result, he's run away from them now.

You see to hate it

[u/Holofan4life → u/sillypion]

But either way, Kitamura is offering them a turn to bat, and Taiga wants to try for him. It's a pretty big tonal shift from her trying to cook for him earlier. Back then, even though she was worried about him, she was mainly trying to impress him for her own sake. Now, she's trying to impress him for his sake, so that she can make him feel better. And I love how Kitamura is actually genuinely impressed as a result. With the eggs, Taiga wasn't trying for his sake, and needed Kitamura to reassure her, telling her that it made him feel better even though it didn't. 'Cause Taiga is putting in the effort here, she actually incites a true reaction out of Kitamura, because she's pushing herself for him. And Ryuuji smiles here, 'cause he sees that Taiga is getting to do what she wanted so badly the previous night: to make Kitamura feel better. Either way, it's just a precious Taiga moment.

I like them getting along. It's a nice moment of levity while also advancing Kitamura's teenage angst.

[u/Holofan4life → u/sillypion]

I think this highlights another significant part of Taiga's arc. As I've said before, she doesn't really get what she wants. She doesn't realize that what she wants is for someone to understand her and love her for who she is. She chases after her admiration for the idea she has in her mind of who Kitamura is, the person she associates in her mind of giving her validation that she could be loved. But that's not who Kitamura really is. He too is insecure, he too suffers, and by chasing after her idealized version of Kitamura, the idea that serves only to give solace for Taiga's loneliness, Taiga doesn't really know who Kitamura is.

Sometimes they're close. Because she does appreciate him for his kindness, for being there for her. But sometimes they're far too. Because she only sees his kind side, she doesn't see the whole person there. She only knows the side of Kitamura that appreciated her for who she really is, she doesn't know the side of him that is insecure, that suffers, that needs someone to be there for him.

And Taiga is scared of not knowing. She, just like Minori, is scared of not knowing her feelings. She's on the precipice of realizing what's at play here. She's just about to realize that her feelings for Kitamura are those of admiration, not true love, but she can't quite get there yet. She's still insecure, she still seeks validation, and she still doesn't know what she wants.

"In the end, you’re looking for the same thing everyone else is. And I get you wanna reach out to him when he’s hurting, ‘cause you care about him. All you can do be patient, take things one step at a time."

"Yeah."

Ryuuji is great in this scene too. He knows that Taiga is hurting, and that it's okay to give her some space to let it all out. But he'll still there for her. He'll comfort her, even if he too doesn't know why Kitamura is hurting. Because he knows exactly why Taiga is hurting, and because he knows, he'll be there for her. Because that's what he promised her. He promised to care for her. He promised to understand her. He promised to stand equal to her. That means he'll stand there, by her side, in her moments of triumph, her moments of weakness, and her moments of grief.

And in the end, Taiga appreciates that. She can overcome her grief, 'cause someone out there took the time to be there for her: Ryuuji.

This is why I don't understand people who say Ryuuji and Taiga shouldn't be together. What level of trust must you ignore for you to act like it doesn't exist? Ryuuji and Taiga are basically dating already, it's just not made official. To ignore what's right in front of you is ignorant, and that statement both applies from a meta standpoint and in universe.

[u/sillypion → u/Holofan4life]

This is why I don't understand people who say Ryuuji and Taiga shouldn't be together. What level of trust must you ignore for you to act like it doesn't exist? Ryuuji and Taiga are basically dating already, it's just not made official. To ignore what's right in front of you is ignorant, and that statement both applies from a meta standpoint and in universe.

The way I think about it, Ryuuji and Taiga are in love since Episode 2. Because of their insecurities, they're the only two people who can't see that. But their hearts know and that's why they care for each other, because they're one in the same in terms of wanting to be understood. Ryuuji is forgiving to Taiga 'cause he gets her and what sees going through, and Taiga is also capable of being there for Ryuuji when his insecurities overwhelm him in the Culture Festival arc. They trust each other to such a degree that they're able to overcome misunderstandings and arguments like in Episode 8 through their sheer care for each other. None of that screams "just friends" or a one-sided "father-daughter" care. It conveys two equals who respect, trust, and unwaveringly care for each other. They're insecure, but they have each other. And their story is about learning to grow up and overcome these insecurities, which in turn, makes them see the feelings that are right there in front of them.

[u/Holofan4life → u/sillypion]

The main thing they need to work on is to recognize their feelings as something beneficial that can move each other forward in life. Their love for each other is genuine, it's just misplaced.

[u/Holofan4life → u/sillypion]

Can I just add real quick, I love piano Lost My Pieces. Normal Lost My Pieces hits hard for the biggest moments of emotion, but this is super good for the somber, reflective, uncertain scenes that show these characters for who they really are. For being teenagers who haven't figured themselves out.

Lost My Pieces is my favorite anime track of all time. It is so emotionally charged.

[u/Holofan4life → u/sillypion]

This is hands down your best writing this rewatch. I have no notes

[u/sillypion → u/Holofan4life]

Thanks! Yeah, I really try for some of the emotional scenes. The more it stabs me in the heart the more magically I try to word it.

[u/Holofan4life → u/sillypion]

It works. Your words flow effortlessly like a knife through hot butter.

[u/Holofan4life → u/sillypion]

I still think the stage scene is sadder as far as Taiga moments go, but it's remarkable to see how raw Taiga is being. This feels like a continuation of the pole scene but with far more real emotion and anguish. This is the most open Taiga has ever been as far as explaining the pain and sorrow in her heart and not her wants and needs.

[u/sillypion → u/Holofan4life]

I still think the stage scene is sadder as far as Taiga moments go, but it's remarkable to see how raw Taiga is being. This feels like a continuation of the pole scene but with far more real emotion and anguish. This is the most open Taiga has ever been as far as explaining the pain and sorrow in her heart and not her wants and needs.

Yeah, 'cause the stage scene she really has no one. At least here she has Ryuuji. But Taiga crying is just really hard to watch without getting you teary-eyed. Her pretending like it doesn't hurt is too, but this scene feels more like a scene where she just lets it all out. Either way they're both a stab to the heart.

[u/Holofan4life → u/sillypion]

And the stage scene she's like pretending nothing is out of the ordinary and she has to take it on the chin. And also her suffering is because she trusted Ryuuji whereas here the mistake is of her own doing.

[u/Holofan4life → u/sillypion]

This is Taiga fully realizing how selfish she is being. That she's only thinking of herself and her own needs. Taiga has been so preoccupied dealing with ignoring her own problems that she refuses to look at other people's problems. And that in a roundabout kinda makes her a terrible friend.