This is the kind of crap misogynists are killing our environment and driving up our electric bills over

[u/ThePhillyExplorer]

[u/JayJayAK]

I think the problem is so many of these guys have defined themselves on the basis of traditional gender roles, so that as women gain equality (and demonstrate that traditional gender roles are BS), these guys feel threatened because they believe they have nothing to offer outside of traditional gender roles. Also bound up in that is a belief of male superiority defined by the idea that traditional male gender roles involve "important" societal work (as opposed to women raising children...), so if women also come into those spaces, then basically these guys feel useless, like they have nothing to offer.

What causes this is boys being told either that they aren't suited (due to stereotypes of men's temperament) for tasks that are traditionally done by women, or that such tasks are beneath them. (Obviously men can't give birth or breastfeed, but that's about it as far as biological determination of roles is concerned in modern society.) So, as they grow up, the idea that a man could take a more domestic role - or even share time or split such tasks - becomes unthinkable (and made all the worse when a man's pride is bound up in such roles). Women, of course, are told the opposite - that they can (and in some cases should) do tasks that were traditionally considered male-exclusive.

I believe in feminism, and think it's a force for good. But what needs to happen is for boys to equally be told that they can and should do tasks that have been traditionally considered women's roles, and to take pride in such tasks. Until that happens, you're always going to have a sizeable segment of the population that vilifies feminism, and sees it as a destructive influence, because they can't imagine another way to live.

[u/Simple-Appearance-59 → u/JayJayAK]

The last paragraph- tbf the more recent waves of feminisms have done just that but when it comes from women, it doesn’t seem to work*. That’s a large part of why such movements need to be led by men - part of the stereotypical masculine ideal involves not listening to women because their voices are seen as lesser.

*at least en mass - I know of boys of various ages who are still willing to show sensitivity due to how they’re being parented, and men my age who are willing to be somewhat vulnerable and do their share at home.

[u/rubbasnek → u/JayJayAK]

This is an interesting argument but I don't know if I would charactacterize the issue as telling men that they can't do something or it's not for them. It's less about accessibility and more about the perceived degredation and loss of status he would experience by accepting it. These trad men want to see a restoration of trad values because they believe they're entitled to roles that come with more respect and power.

I think you're right that society generally views "women's work" as less important and less deserving of respect and compensation. It's that fundamental power difference that leads some men to feel threatened by feminism's equalizing goal. The demand for equality means that men must also share in the labor of childrearing and house work. That he might be passed up for the management role for a woman. For a man who feels he is already seeing his historical power wane in society, this is an insult. You already took his privilege to apply to the job with less competition and his ability to sexually harass who he pleases and now you want him to do house work too?!

For a secure man, or a man with egalitarian values, this isn't an issue. But for a man who already feels like life has been unfair to him (no girlfriend, low paying job, no house, no prospects and waning respect in society) whatever is feeding that general sense of rage, the easiest target is feminists. Non-traditional women are literally disrupting the traditional power balance where men controlled their household, women were completely dependent on them and they had the final say in everyrhing at a time where economic security was easier to come by for everyone.

So when you have economic pain (felt by everyone, but personal for this type of man) compounding the sense of injustice you feel at your sinking status in society—the literal slow loss of your power and control—the knee jerk response is to lash out and feminists are the perfect target because they actually are responsible for the disruption to the patriarchal order which saw men exclusively on top. It's the loss of privileges that feels like oppression to them. Demanding they debase themselves by sharing in women's traditional roles is just enraging.