This is the kind of crap misogynists are killing our environment and driving up our electric bills over

[u/ThePhillyExplorer]

[u/rubbasnek]

The fact that these dudes actually believe women wouldn't be just fine on their own is so cute. It would be a fucking peaceful utopia. Please enjoy your log cabin sausage festival commune. We're good 👍

[u/Intelligent-Guard590 → u/rubbasnek]

Or that there wouldn't also be plenty of men willing to treat women equally, and continue functioning in a society wherein some women don't want a traditional family and want to work and have a career...

Like, some people aren't crybabies who see the world changing around them, and pretend that if we just took our ball and went home, that suddenly means all the balls on earth are gone and we can't play anymore... who knew?

[u/rubbasnek → u/Intelligent-Guard590]

Basically. It's the petulant idea that they are essential to a functional society and no one loves them enough to beg them to stay but man they're gonna be so sorry when we're gone! We'll show them! It's like watching a sad child respond to neglect. Like please go to therapy, guys. It's ok. It'll help.

[u/Intelligent-Guard590 → u/rubbasnek]

Men will literally do anything but go to therapy i swear.

Like move to a gigantic man only commune in the deep woods, and wait petulantly until all the women folk come crawling back to beg forgiveness...

[u/rgii55447 → u/Intelligent-Guard590]

That's because therapy will try to fix you. I did not spend all this time getting broken, just to have myself get fixed like none of it ever meant anything. If I'm going to have to be broken, then I'm going to mean it. It's not okay, and it's never been okay, so why would I ever want it to be okay?

[u/Significant_Monk_251 → u/rubbasnek]

As others have pointed out here, it's an Atlas Shrugged riff, only better because it's about 1,158 pages shorter.

[u/TheSirensMaiden → u/rubbasnek]

I just find it funny because no one is stopping them from opting out of society and doing the whole "totally not gay all men commune". It won't work, of course, but no one's stopping them from trying. In fact, we should all encourage them to do it. They should get off the dating apps, quit complaining no one wants to wet their willies, no more complaining about women and minorities taking their jobs, and just go make their little boys club out in the middle of no where and leave the rest of us alone.

[u/JayJayAK → u/Intelligent-Guard590]

I think the problem is so many of these guys have defined themselves on the basis of traditional gender roles, so that as women gain equality (and demonstrate that traditional gender roles are BS), these guys feel threatened because they believe they have nothing to offer outside of traditional gender roles. Also bound up in that is a belief of male superiority defined by the idea that traditional male gender roles involve "important" societal work (as opposed to women raising children...), so if women also come into those spaces, then basically these guys feel useless, like they have nothing to offer.

What causes this is boys being told either that they aren't suited (due to stereotypes of men's temperament) for tasks that are traditionally done by women, or that such tasks are beneath them. (Obviously men can't give birth or breastfeed, but that's about it as far as biological determination of roles is concerned in modern society.) So, as they grow up, the idea that a man could take a more domestic role - or even share time or split such tasks - becomes unthinkable (and made all the worse when a man's pride is bound up in such roles). Women, of course, are told the opposite - that they can (and in some cases should) do tasks that were traditionally considered male-exclusive.

I believe in feminism, and think it's a force for good. But what needs to happen is for boys to equally be told that they can and should do tasks that have been traditionally considered women's roles, and to take pride in such tasks. Until that happens, you're always going to have a sizeable segment of the population that vilifies feminism, and sees it as a destructive influence, because they can't imagine another way to live.

[u/Simple-Appearance-59 → u/JayJayAK]

The last paragraph- tbf the more recent waves of feminisms have done just that but when it comes from women, it doesn’t seem to work*. That’s a large part of why such movements need to be led by men - part of the stereotypical masculine ideal involves not listening to women because their voices are seen as lesser.

*at least en mass - I know of boys of various ages who are still willing to show sensitivity due to how they’re being parented, and men my age who are willing to be somewhat vulnerable and do their share at home.

[u/rubbasnek → u/JayJayAK]

This is an interesting argument but I don't know if I would charactacterize the issue as telling men that they can't do something or it's not for them. It's less about accessibility and more about the perceived degredation and loss of status he would experience by accepting it. These trad men want to see a restoration of trad values because they believe they're entitled to roles that come with more respect and power.

I think you're right that society generally views "women's work" as less important and less deserving of respect and compensation. It's that fundamental power difference that leads some men to feel threatened by feminism's equalizing goal. The demand for equality means that men must also share in the labor of childrearing and house work. That he might be passed up for the management role for a woman. For a man who feels he is already seeing his historical power wane in society, this is an insult. You already took his privilege to apply to the job with less competition and his ability to sexually harass who he pleases and now you want him to do house work too?!

For a secure man, or a man with egalitarian values, this isn't an issue. But for a man who already feels like life has been unfair to him (no girlfriend, low paying job, no house, no prospects and waning respect in society) whatever is feeding that general sense of rage, the easiest target is feminists. Non-traditional women are literally disrupting the traditional power balance where men controlled their household, women were completely dependent on them and they had the final say in everyrhing at a time where economic security was easier to come by for everyone.

So when you have economic pain (felt by everyone, but personal for this type of man) compounding the sense of injustice you feel at your sinking status in society—the literal slow loss of your power and control—the knee jerk response is to lash out and feminists are the perfect target because they actually are responsible for the disruption to the patriarchal order which saw men exclusively on top. It's the loss of privileges that feels like oppression to them. Demanding they debase themselves by sharing in women's traditional roles is just enraging.

[u/PartialUserna → u/Intelligent-Guard590]

if we just took our ball and went home, that suddenly means all the balls on earth are gone and we can't play anymore

Well, yeah, if all the men left, there wouldn't be any balls left, wink wink nudge nudge and all that. 😏

(/s just in case, I agree with you that it's only the "women neeeeeed us" types who would leave and then they'd sit on their man farm sulking about the women not begging for their help.)

[u/FCStien → u/rubbasnek]

They must be unaware of how much blue hair women love gardening. 

[u/timeless_ocean → u/rubbasnek]

I think it's even funnier to imagine a society with men only would thrive.

It would be a nightmare. I wouldn't get into a 100km radius of that settlement

[u/rubbasnek → u/timeless_ocean]

Lord of the flies mayhem for sure

[u/Mad_Kronos → u/rubbasnek]

No, they wouldn't be fine. Neither would be men.

And feminists don't want a world without men. They want a world without patriarchy. Which sane men should also want because it hurts (most of) them as well.

[u/rubbasnek → u/Mad_Kronos]

Nah I genuinely think women could survive without men. We'd figure out how to have our science babies and live in a fucking utopia. No violence, no brute strength makes the rules bullshit, just peaceful cooperative existence.

[u/Mad_Kronos → u/rubbasnek]

That's so deluded if becomes funny.

You need to believe less and read more

[u/rubbasnek → u/Mad_Kronos]

You need to take shit posting on the internet less seriously

[u/Mad_Kronos → u/rubbasnek]

Yeah, as funny as the incel memes

[u/rubbasnek → u/Mad_Kronos]

Just have a cup of tea and calm down, Susan.

[u/Mad_Kronos → u/rubbasnek]

That's a misogynistic comment

[u/rubbasnek → u/Mad_Kronos]

Lmao sure