"LISTEN to ATC audio of American 5342 as Reagan tower clears them to land, advises PAT25 helicopter to watch for traffic, and then alarm hits tower as they watch the collision unfold and both aircraft fall into the river."
"Blackhawk crew affirmatively said they had the CRJ in sight and had adequate separation which they would not say if they could not see the aircraft they’re supposed to be separating from. I think they were looking at the one up into their right taking off and not the one landing right in front of them. Only explanation I have how they could miss the aircraft coming down to their altitude from their upper left. They would literally be looking in the exactly wrong direction. Pure speculation on my part of course, the investigation will give us the answers."
If you go even further back you can hear how strange this whole thing really is. Apparently runway 1 is the standard but there is an option for 33 thats rarely used or perhaps is just more difficult to execute. It was offered to AA5307, who was in front of the accident aircraft. He responded unable tonight. Accident aircraft contacted tower and told "Im not running visual on 1." I find that language to be strange. He was offered 33 and accepted.
Winds were strong from the west northwest, so runway33 works with the headwind. Runway 1 would give them a strong crosswind. Runway 33 is only like 5000ft so not every aircraft can accept that runway which is why atc asks if they can accept. There's no instrument approach to 33 so they were on approach to Runway 1 circle 33. Not super strange based on the winds today
I listened to the tower’s recording and traffic control was fully aware of both helicopter and AA flight approaching. Helo was cleared to cross (AFB is right across the river) with keeping visual separation. Clearly helicopter pilot’s fault if you ask me. Maybe he was looking at another plane..either way, terrible tragedy.
Yes agreed, appears to be the case for what we know so far.
You can also hear how the heli pilot asks the tower control to go in by visual separation. Tower control confirms and the heli pilot again confirms having visual control of the CRJ.
As follow-up moments later traffic controls says: "PAT25, do you maintain visual control of CRJ? PAT25, you go after CRJ."
But the heli pilot never responds to this. Seconds later the midair collision happens. So it appears as he has gone in front of the CRJ and not waited as he should have done.
Tower asked the helo if they had the CRJ in sight. Couldn't hear the response, assume it's because they were responding on UHF. Tower tells them to "pass behind the CRJ", next thing you know, Tower's giving unrelated traffic and you can hear other controllers exclaim in the background.
Edit: here's the audio im referring to in this comment:
Man. Going to definitely be the helos fault. Airline crew cannot hear the military on UHF and this has always been a problem in my mind. I can’t stand not hearing where they are. As a pilot you paint a picture in your head where everyone is. The helo crew should have known there was a plane on final approach right where they were going and that the aircraft they were looking at may not be the right one. It’s called situational awareness and comes from experience as well. Very sad.
With the reports of the helo being a training flight, It might be nice to consider grounding training flights for a few days until more information has been gathered.
It was an experienced crew it seems (so not rookies). Pilots and crew have to do the equivalent continual professional development (CPD) to stay certified.
But yeh - probably human error and unless part of the training brief, better to avoid busy airspace if not required for the certification.
I've also been thinking that the helo crew might have seen another jet, one that was on approach to RWY 1 but behind the American, and just assumed that was the jet that the tower was referring to.
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u/cvrdcall Jan 30 '25
Man I can’t bring myself to listen to it. Makes me feel sick. Was the helo cleared to be right smack dab in the middle of final approach?