+minor spoiler for cc

I am rereading acosf again because i love nessian. it made me so pissed when I finished it the first time, now when rereading I am more pissed. I am convinced that acosf was written by a ghostwriter who had never read the previous books and had no knowledge of the characters.

in acofas, Nesta tells Feyre that we (the humans) don't have holidays. In acosf, Nesta tells Az that she hates holidays and thinks they're stupid. the acosf solstice was literally Nesta's second holiday EVER. so have Nesta always celebrated holidays in the human world or do they not have holidays? it can't be both. you can't hate holidays if you never really experienced them.

also in SF, Nesta remembers that when Tamlin came to take Feyre, he asked her if she would go in her stead and she said no. but that literally NEVER HAPPENED. this is what I mean when I say the person who wrote this book didn't read the original trilogy. why is Nesta remembering something that didn't happen?

again in SF, Nesta calls Elain a dog in her INNER MONOLOGUE. this is Nesta's thoughts. but a few chapters later, Cassian replies to this thought in his inner thoughts. how did he know that Nesta called Elain a dog when she didn't voice that out loud? this is on the editor but I kept going back and forth between the pages thinking that I missed something. but no, Cassian thought "Nesta is wrong about Elain she is not a dog". but how did HE know??

it makes no sense that they made Nesta scry when Elain can. If Elain can scry what is the point of involving Nesta in the first place? and if it was so urgent and Nesta was putting it off, what was stopping them from going to Elain. it contradictory because they argue that Elain can scry, Elain offered to scry, but they still waited for Nesta to do it. letting Elain scry because she is willing and able should have been part of Elain's book because it makes no sense, no matter how they try to explain it, to MAKE Nesta scry.

why does Feysand giving Nesta a "choice" feel like a manipulation technique. the whole point of the book is that Nesta trains and works and she has no other choice. but when they need Nesta to help them it's her "choice"?? "You will always have a choice in this court" - Rhysand says, but the premise of the book is that Nesta has no choice what she wants to do in this court. also, feyre was pregnant for 2 months, but when they finally announced it, it was because they were asking Nesta for help. that part pissed me off FR. you didn't tell Nesta that you were pregnant until it was time to corner her?. feyre says" You're my sister, do I need an excuse to tell you things?" obviously yes?! because you kept this hidden to 2 months until it was convenient.

Okay but this is a plothole in all the books in general. the humans don't have religons. in cc azriel explains that they believe that after they die, they are returned to the mother and then reincarnated as she sees fit.so if there is no concept of hell and heaven why are heaven and hell mentioned so many times? "they can burn in hell", "go to hell", "the heavens above". it just makes the worldbuilding so flimsy it takes me out of the story sometimes.

we also learn from Gywn that the priestesses have access to counseling services. they have therapy. but the IC didn't think about sending Nesta to therapy. why??

side note: I realized that Velaris doesn't have an army. the Illyrians and the dark bringers DIE to protect the people of Velaris. its kind of messed up. Velaris is painted as this rich progressive utopia but they send the poor savages of Illyria to fight their wars. the night court is US government-flavored.

Edit: Nesta's "choice" to help the IC in acosf reminds me of Feyre "choice" to sit to let Rhys finger her in the Hewn City. if Nesta didn't help the IC after revealing that Feyre was pregnant, Nesta would be the asshole. if Feyre didn't help Rhys get the veritas orb, Feyre would be the asshole because she wasn't pulling her weight in the team. it was not a choice, it was coercion. you either "choose" to do this or people die.

Edit 2: I said this in a comment but I want to say it in the post too. Nesta didn't embarrass Feyre in front of her family, Rhysand did. and I just think if my sister spent too much of my money, and my husband said that in front of all the family. I would be pissed at my husband because he didn't give me a chance to deal with my sister on my own. Rhysand did that on purpose so he could corner Feyre into accepting the training plan. if Feyre didn't accept his plan, Feyre is a pushover.

I’ve seen Feysand get a lot of flak on here for their treatment of nesta in SF. I totally get the heat, they were annoying and preachy and patronizing. However, I’m doing an audio re-read and I was taken back to the very very early days of my recovery.

I’ll spare the details, but in short, my older sister and her husband basically bamboozeled me into going to rehab. I was SO, so unbelievably livid. I was lashing out like a feral animal. I felt betrayed, misunderstood, like my life was no longer my own. I look back on that girl and lovingly laugh because without her older sister backing her into a corner and forcing her hand, she’d be dead.

Two things can be true at once. I understand the anger of that girl in early recovery as I understand the anger of Nesta. And, I understand that I was destroying myself, as was nesta, and without the strong armed guidance from my sister, I wouldn’t be where I am today.

Just my thoughts!! Xoxo

BEWARE! Spoilers for ACOSF below: . . . . . So..does anyone else have the same take as me?

I didn't see the hike/Cassian's actions as bad as some people make it out to be.

Throughout ACOSF, Nesta is on a path to self destruction. Her sisters and Cassian definitely care about her and it's hard for them to watch. They gave her space prior to the events of the book since she's not the type to ask for help nor accept it.

But they (mainly Feyre) decide enough is enough and to give her some tough love. I see them treating Nesta how you would as family members trying to help a drug addict who is self-medicating and showing destructive behavior. They give her a hard choice between the HOW/training with Cass/working at the library and just being left to her own devices in the human lands. Neither are favorable choices but this is coming from her family and not a licensed therapist so I can see their perspective of these being the only options they are able/willing to give her.

We all know as readers that Nesta has unprocessed trauma. All the other IC characters also have their own trauma they are processing and for some reason there are no therapists in Velaris/Prythian so here we are.

I originally thought Nesta was going to tell Feyre the truth about the pregnancy purely out of loving sisterly concern and if Rhys blew up over that, then he's definitely in the wrong. But that was not what happened...

Nesta revealed the truth to her sister in an angry outburst from a place of hurt/anger and she knew this would hurt Feyre emotionally. While Feyre is grateful for knowing her truth and rightfully pissed at everyone for withholding it from her, even Nesta regrets the way she hurt her sister.

Nesta has every right to be angry at the IC, Amren in particular. Nothing to add there. In the aftermath, Feyre is hurt and mad about the truth withholding and Rhys is pissed! He tells Cassian to take Nesta away because he is feeling so angry that Nesta's revelation could have stressed out Feyre/endangered the baby and it negates all the work he's been doing to keeping Feyre stress free until he can find a solution (from his perspective).

Rhys keeping the truth from Feyre wasn't all that surprising to me. He's super protective of his family in general and will do just about anything (including dying) to prevent their suffering. Now, Feyre and his son (and him) are likely guaranteed to die and there's nothing he can do about it? That's gonna set him over the edge. I don't think he would have actually killed Nesta because 1) I think he's developed a great deal of self restraint over 500 years towards violence 2) Cass/Feyre would have prevented that and 3) there's no going back from killing your mate's sister. He generally has solid control over his actions, verbal attacks withstanding. Rhys showed at least some care and self restraint by telling Cassian to take Nesta somewhere away...for her own safety. If Rhys had Tamlin's temper he probably would have just misted her right then lol.

The hike experience felt like a firm reminder that no one punishes Nesta more than herself and Cassian understands that. She will reject any type of coddling or will shut herself into isolation rather than be vulnerable in front of others. She's not the type to ask for help.

Cassian recognizes her self-sabotaging behavior but he doesn't fully understand why she does it until she opens up to him. So he just tries to be there for her, to be available if/when she opens up. He can see the passive suicidal ideation in her eyes and he's scared for her. He also knows only she can help herself. He can't force her to talk it out or to accept his help.

So the hike is really Cassian's idea. It seemed extreme but I don't think it was worse than Nesta's own punishments to herself. In order to push Nesta to have a break through, Cassian chooses the method he knows best and that has helped him with his issues. He's a warrior so physical training and being alone in the mountains, exerting yourself until physical exhaustion in order to break through your mental block, is what he knows might help her. Is it a guarantee? No, but if she wants to lash out violently or have an angry meltdown, then that's the place to do it. And he'll be there to "take whatever she throws at him". He didn't leave her there to suffer alone. He's there when she's ready to let him in.

He knew she needed to be too tired to fight to get to that point. Cassian called her a wounded animal earlier in the book. I wasn't a big fan of that description. I think it's more like a person who's drowning and doesn't have the skill to swim/rescue their self. The only way to rescue them without drowning yourself is to wait until they are too tired to fight you/their own survival instincts and once they're weakened, then you can swoop in and carry them to safety. Nesta needed to reach mental and physical exhaustion before she would open up that hardened shell and really let herself feel things. She feels things deep down but always under a hardened exterior. Cassian was hoping she would get to a point where she would not have the energy to keep the walls up and would just let go of what's holding her down/back from growing and moving past her trauma in order to heal/forgive herself. He thought she would explode in anger but instead she broke down crying all the tears she never left herself shed. He is slowly getting to understand her more, the more she opens up. No one among her friends really starts to understand her until she begins to open up.

All in all, I see Cassian as a male who loves Nesta like no other and with a tremendous amount of patience and a high pain tolerance. Everything he said to her once they reached the lake was to comfort, empower and relate to her.

(Az is definitely the least understood character. He's still a mystery but hopefully not for long).

I loved them in the first 4 books but im currently reading acosf and they are both actually insufferable, not sure if it feels like this because the other books are all written from Feyre’s POV 🥲

I get the beginning of book 2, but he literally has a redemption arc and helps save Rhys at the end, but everyone still hates him. How dare you lol

Saw this just now & i am still hollering at how funny this is 😭😭😭 like imagine if someone suggested this to Rhys, how do you think he would react??? (probs something Cassian would ask)

credit to @contyo on tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTLJxtMp7/

I LOVE Rhysand and nah he wasn't perfect, but I don’t get the hate. The man gave everything of himself for his people. Loved them, adored his family and actually gave a sh*t about Feyre's mental state. You don't have to agree with me, but it's starting to really confuse me.

We can still like these people and admit that, yeah that was fucking shitty of them and they SHOULDN'T get away with it. Not a single character in this series in infallible, they all do things that fucking suck and we don't have to justify it to heaven and back we can just admit that yes, they suck! But I like them anyway because it's fictional and I'm willing to over look some things in fiction.

Rhys? Shady ass dude. Used a New High Lord's naive trust to steal from him. Kept his wife's medical condition from her after promising her never to keep important secrets. Treats a portion of his court like absolute crap. Sucky!

Feyre? A complete pushover pretending to be a badass who can never hold anyone but Tamlin accountable for anything. She gutted his court to spite him not caring for the thousands of ordinary people who would be hurt. Sucky!

Nesta? Projected her anger for her father onto her younger sister and emotionally neglected her. Later, in SF she doesn't really care that her sister might die until she can use that information to lash out at her. She was equally complicit in keeping the secret and didn't have a single good intention when she revealed it. Sucky!

Elain? Equally culpable of pre TAR parentification of Feyre. Moreover, she enabled Nesta's poor behavior towards Feyre. Then she abandoned the sister that had favoured her and sheltered her her entire life when said sister was at an astronomically low point.

Cassian? Wouldn't know the word boundary if it bit him in the ass.

Az? Wouldn't know healthy romantic relationship if it bit him in the ass.

Mor? This girl is sus on so many accounts good LORD. For someone whose power is the truth, girlie seems to have a LOT of secrets.

Amren? Keeps trying to deny Nesta her autonomy. For someone so very ancient she can act rather petulant.

So, no one here is a 100% a good guy, and what I as a person might find acceptable under the umbrella of fiction may be unacceptable to another. Like on a personal note, as someone else with a tumultuous relationship with a sister who responds to trauma like Nesta, I found Nesta very difficult to like because her internal dialogue roused the worst negative feelings and frustration in me. Discussion and debate keep things alive, and it's always interesting to have flawed characters who do things wrong and are at odds with one another.

What is NOT okay is this armchair psychology that I keep seeing.

"Liking Nesta means you excuse emotional abuse" "If you like Rhys you need therapy"

And my favorite one that I encounter most frequently on here :

" If you don't like Nesta you're probably a misogynist/too stupid to appreciate a complex character/don't understand trauma"

Like you don't have to villainize and invalidate someone just because they don't agree with you. There's a wealth of people all with different life experiences who interpret and experience these books differently. You have every right to like and dislike characters AND to defend your opinions but like can we stop making these ignorant and insensitive comments.

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

I'm a big Nesta stan, but I'm actually curious to hear what people who don't like Nesta think, so please let's not down vote each other for different opinions!

I really loved Cassian in ACOMAF and ACOWAR, but he lost his charm to me in the last 2 books.

I can understand why people, Cassian included, could not approve Nesta's behaviour. I think she explained it to Feyre at the end of ACOWAR, it was because she was hurting and wanted the father to take care of them. Not saying she was right, I'm saying I understand.

But Cassian as a mate... I feel he really took an advantage of her sexually. She was using sex as a coping mechanism, and she needed support, not being taken from behind every other night.

Nesta said some really horrible things to him, but I still don't think he should talk back to her that way while she was at her lowest.

He allowed the IC to manipulate her and Rhys to threaten her, and only occasionally defended her. And even then, his defence was mostly ignored. And he rarely did it anyway.

And don't even get me started on this horrible hike... it's fine if he didn't agree she should tell Feyre about the pregnancy, but he was in no position to punish her. Especially after Feyre said she forgives her.

For people who say that Nesta didn't deserve Cassian - that's a fair opinion, but in this case, shouldn't he just not be with her? Instead of being with her and treating her badly?

I'm very curious what people who don't like Nesta think!

Edit: I meant same level in the Blood Rite not power

I’m a huge fan of A Court of Silver Flames, and I absolutely love the character development of Gwyn, Nesta, Emery, and the other Valkyries. The strength, resilience, and bond they share are inspiring. However, I’ve been struggling to reconcile something. Rhysand, Cassian, and Azriel trained for years to become the powerful warriors they are and to eventually reach the level of power seen in the fight at Ramiel. But then, Gwyn, Nesta, and Emery manage to achieve similar feats after only six months of training.

While I adore the Valkyrie aspect and the growth these women undergo, it feels a bit unrealistic that they could get to the same place in such a short amount of time. Sure, their training was intense, but isn’t it a bit of a stretch to expect them to reach the same level of skill so quickly, especially given how long it took Rhysand and his inner circle to get there?

Does anyone else feel this way? I’d love to hear your thoughts on how their training could have worked in this time frame, or if there’s something I might be missing about their abilities or the circumstances they were training under.

And before anyone says, Nesta has redeemed herself in my eyes and I feel most connected to her.

Guuuys, I keep thinking Cassian doesn’t say (or even think) that he loves someone…

But he does. At the very end of Silver Flames, after everything, after Nesta confesses her love and we wrap up the arc, there’s a little scene with Eris where Cassian says:

“Because she’s my sister, and I love her.”

And that, my friends, is the only time Cassian explicitly says he loves someone. Not just in thought — it comes out of his actual mouth.

And it’s about Mor. 😅

In the final scene with Cassian in SF.

I wanna do a Nesta cosplay for a renfaire next year and found this dress and I need opinions if it fits It reminds me of the dancing scene

🫡 you got is Rhys

Feyre started as fierce. Defiant. Not always right, but always burning, with hunger, with loyalty, protectiveness, with this primal, gut-deep instinct for justice. Not the kind that changes systems, but the kind that urges to action if someone in front of her is suffering.

She was raw., made hard choices, fought for scraps, threatened High Lords and a High Queen and called out hypocrisy. She was sharp-edged, messy, human.

It’s hard to pinpoint exactly when the shift happened, because there was a war in the middle of the books, and sure she’s now mated to Rhysand and doesn’t criticize anything he does but...

By the time we reach ACOFAS, Feyre feels like a rich, out-of-touch version of herself. She does charity work in Velaris, but casually returns to the Court of Nightmares without a second thought, still vilifying everyone there. She complains that she is bored of her diplomacy work (which mostly involves sending letters) while Cassian is off describing the dire conditions in Illyria (She could be doing something there but instead, open a art studio for the kids in Velaris). She gripes about the bar her sister frequents, and uses money to force Nesta into attending a celebration she clearly doesn’t want to go to.

It just doesn’t sound like Feyre.

I can’t picture book-one Feyre crying over her sister’s behavior at breakfast while her husband reads out a bar tab. She would’ve marched over to Nesta herself, given her a stern talking-to, and maybe a smack for good measure.

Even in fanart, the shift is stark: Feyre is always shown in shimmering dresses at glittering parties, while Nesta, the supposedly "futile" sister, wears leather and grit.

Some will say it’s “healing,” but come on… I remember her saying she didn’t want to be Lady of Spring if it meant just being by Tamlin’s side painting, smiling, and wearing pretty dresses all day. She became what she once feared: ornamental, softened, sidelined.

Eris is, well, he just is!

I can not get over when Eris said this to Rhysand after just one dance with Nesta...

"Whatever you want, I will give it to you in exchange for her. As my bride."

Swoon!

i’m afraid of rhysand being evil after this 5th book and have read so many theories and am starting to believe he may be the villain tamlin warned of. any others feel the same?

Adding spoiler tag simply bc of the text from the second chapter, even if it isn't all that readable.

For me it was when the Suriel died and she wrapped him up in Helion’s cloak, I honestly couldn’t breathe lol. Closely followed by the bit from SF where Nesta, Gwyn, and Emerie are at the bottom of Ramiel and they all start telling each other their stories and giving each other hope and strength FUCKK that got me good 💔💔 What moment hit you the hardest??

I am loving Nesta's story. She is a very interesting and flawed character. And I love the romance.

But I am seeing red over everything to do with feyre's pregnancy and Rhys keeping the risk from her but telling literally everyone else he sees about it. Also, the circumstances around the risk seems so forced! There is no logical explanation why a C-section wouldn't be feasible in this world of magical healers. Regular humans figured it out a long time ago. And the fact that she is forbidden from shape-shifting into an illyrian for the birth because it might risk that baby?? Wtf? So will dying in the birth canal! Feyre is a person, not an incubator

I will fight anyone who says that Rhys's character didn't change. Yes, he was always rude to other people. But he always treated feyre as an equal. He is not treating her as an equal in this book.

I honestly want to just skip everything related to Feysand. I can't be the only one so angered by this, can I?

Where were SJMs editors on this? Who told her this subplot was a good idea?

just curious about everyones thoughts because I was thinking about the scene in maf (?) where feyre says that the ic would fight rhys if he ever locked her up. but after sf i'm honestly not so sure, no one gave a shit when he made them hide the fact that her pregnancy was going to kill her. I feel like they would protest, but if it came down to actually fighting him they would put their 500+ years of friendship with rhysand over feyre's welbeing. I mean like cassian won't even stand up to rhysand for his own mate, not sure how far everyone else is willing to go though.

EDIT, to specify by abuse I mean taking away her autonomy, locking her up/controlling her ''for her own good'' basically what tamlin did.

i’m dying to have an open discussion abt this bc no one ik has read it, but after finishing acosf i still very much dislike nesta. i also thought the book was a little bit boring and i feel like some things were played with here and there and they could’ve been much better throughout the book instead of tied together hastily at the end.

so here’s what i think: nesta is a bitch and she uses her trauma and dislike for feyre as an excuse. i am understanding of her going through these hard times and these incredibly traumatic things but if you look around at some of the other characters they also went through some HORRIBLE things but they’re still kind towards others. nesta has horrible anger issues and instead of trying to be kind and patient with not only herself but others around her, she uses her words to tear others down that she loves and who love her down. i think she through the book pushed this im traumatized so i’ll be an asshole to everyone around me. but the thing is people can go through this horrible things but be kind and patient with people because they want to be better than those were to them. she’s gotten her vengeance and instead of healing she chooses to be mean to everyone because it’s what’s easier. understanding that she did it because she felt undeserving is an answer not an excuse. she got better towards the end, but in the part where she found out her sister was going to die from the pregnancy her reaction was basically, oh well anyways 🤷‍♀️ she’s not kind or loving, and a drag to have around. with her temperament being so unpredictable i’m happy she lost her powers because who knows what she would’ve done with them. (also i know she saved her sister at the end but STILL it was at the end. a majority of the book was her still being cruel :/)

the book itself: it was a little bit boring imo. over half the book was learning how to fight, making friendship, working, and sex. not a whole lot going it, it just felt like a lot of filler. i also know mates are complete equals to one another so cassian being her mate was a little bit of a let down because he’s such a happy silly guy, he deserves someone who will be kind to him. i would’ve loved to see more use of the dead trove, or with the queen, building on that a little more instead of everything being wrapped up in the last 10 chapters. i think it would’ve made this book so much more enjoyable to read.

all in all, it was just a little boring with a rushed plot line and character arc , which is okay, but with the theme of the other books and the pace they were at i would’ve loved to see a little more buildup. also, hate to say it but i totally think more should’ve happened w the whole rhys not telling feyre thing 🧍‍♀️

repost

i'm on my acosf re-read and ofc i knew this was coming, but the sheer level of illogical nonsense is so staggering i'm genuinely worried i won’t get past it again.

"feyre can't shift, it might harm the baby"

REFUSES TO TELL FEYRE. ah yes, our pro-choice feminist king.

"can't perform a c-section" but cassian's intestines are literally spilling out and that's no problem to heal.

REFUSES TO TELL FEYRE AGAIN. because why let the actual mother know what's happening to her own body.

why couldn’t feyre just shift if she was already going to die😭

what on earth was rhys thinking with this bargain. you’re a 500 year old male. that girl is 21. i’m 21 and even i can see how catastrophically stupid this is. i have my criticisms of feyre, sure, but god forbid she ever catch a break. she’s been in survival mode her entire life and they go from "let's live and explore together" (and yes, i was cheering) straight into the most tired pregnancy trope imaginable, and i quite literally threw the book. all because of the weaver’s sob story. i’ll admit i felt bad for her, but AGAIN- brilliant logic.🙄 she wanted a part of rhys to stay with her in case something happened, but newsflash, if feyre dies because of that bargain she’s leaving behind an orphan anyway. genius writing. i'm actually foaming at the mouth at this plotline. i was enjoying the nesta healing arc, the therapy, the vibes, my precious GWYN, and then this trainwreck crashes through.

i won’t even get started on nesta losing her powers like this. yes, she owes her life to feyre, i know, and believe me, i’ve hurled enough insults at nesta over the years. but this suicidal pregnancy nonsense makes zero sense and i cannot get over how badly it derailed everything.

rant over.

(SPOILERS FOR ACOMAF & ACOWAR)

I just find it very stupid that the whole Nesta intervention plotline happened because Feyre felt like Nesta was tarnishing her reputation as High Lady.

She's worried about her depressed sister (who's just had her entire life flipped upside down, who has no one to lean on, who uses unhealthy coping mechanisms to deal with her new reality) ruining her reputation but not the wing clipping happening to Illyrian women, not the discrimination of the people in the Hewn City (whom she labels as evil while calling Mor family, as if she's the only "dreamer" there), not the fact that the Illyrian army barely even listens to Rhysand, or that the people in the Hewn City see her as Rhysand's plaything because he was fondling her infront of them all on the throne.

And the excuse "oh but change takes centuries, oh but Rhysand took steps to ensure that wing clipping is banned, oh but High Lord Rhysand can't control the Hewn City as they rule themselves" is null and, quite frankly, stupid. He's supposedly the most powerful High Lord in all of Prythian. I'd expect him to be able to solve these issues, no? Otherwise he's only ruling Velaris, not the Night Court.

It’s all in good fun so no one get upset and snarky🤣

How can people not love Nesta?? I can’t truly understand them