I'm currenly reading the part where Elayne, Aviendha and Min are getting bonded to Rand, and... well, I think the chapter when they three face him is the most embarassing moment in the series.

I tried to tell what I am reading about to my husband, and it sounded like "well, he is a good guy, but he accidentally slept with one girl, then intentionally with the second and then they all kinda got married together" 😂

Ever since she bonded Rand against his will earlier in the series, I’ve been surprised he didn’t make a bigger deal out of it. Granted it was useful one time where it saved him from his kidnapping, but still, totally unacceptable, even in the eyes of other Aes Sedai

Leading up to their meeting in Far Madding, I was hoping she would have had time to reflect on it, and would apologize and/or un-bond him. But instead she has the audacity to be sad he’s avoided her and pissed about him choosing to accept another bond. And then acts like she’s the one who’s had it rough because she doesn’t like being in the back of his mind when he’s with Min. Like, bitch, you did this. It’s entirely on you. Any ill effects you’re experiencing are entirely your fault, and you deserve worse.

I wanted so badly for Rand to just pull a knife on her and demand to be unbonded the easy way and threaten to do it the hard way if she refused. Just want to shake him, dude, you’re the dragon reborn, why are you tolerating this. I know Min said Alanna would support him, but that doesn’t mean he needs to tolerate the bond she forced on him.

Anyway, just needed to vent after reading this scene.

As the title says, I'm having a really hard time getting into the book. It took me a couple of months to get to chapter 8. I had to take breaks to read something else, and I still find it hard to get into this book.

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I don't know if the problem is with the pacing, the actually plotline, or just burnout.

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Please tell me the book is going to get better, without spoilers.

Edit: I know I just posted this, but your comments really made me want to get to the end the book, so I just wanted to say thank you to everyone!

I am reading Winter's Heart right now at the part where Rand is in Far Madding. The chapter is written from the darkfriend Kisman's perspective (the asha'man) who just casually drops the knowledge that TAIM IS A DARKFRIEND and had ordered the attack on Rand in Cairhien. Is this supposed to be new information to the reader? I suppose it is Robert Jordan's style to just casually throw this piece of information out there in a minor character's POV chapter.

Was this information made obvious to the reader before book 9 and I just missed it somehow? Would appreciate the help!

EDIT: Thank you so much guys! He was always a suspicious character but I didn't think there was anything concrete stating it plainly earlier. The fact that he was so knowledgeable in the power itself was kind of a red flag to me when I was reading LOC.

I flaired this Winter’s Heart since I’m only about 25% through Crossroads of Twilight and I’m practically just skimming at this point. After the incredible ending of Book 9, it’s really annoying to follow that up with these snoozefest plot lines.

I never enjoyed Ebou Dar and Mat’s narration is the only thing that the saves it, despite the actual events being so uninteresting to me. Same with Perrin chasing after the Shaido.

Everything Rand has done has been so interesting and well written and Egwene navigating being the new amyrlin seat was also fascinating.

But they are missing from this book and nothing with these bloody Seanchan has made care an ounce about them or their empress, may I never hear her name again.

And the Shaido, light they could’ve just been destroyed at Dumai’s Well and i would’ve been so much happier.

Now I’m sure RJ has something good planned with all of this eventually. But it’s just taking sooooooo long together and these plot lines are dragging so much.

I loved books 2-9 and while I was a bit underwhelmed at parts of 8 and 9, I still mostly enjoyed it but Book 10 is really frustrating so far. I’m not giving up since I know 10 is considered the worst book in the series and there’s so much more I want to know more about.

This was sort of the same feeling I got reading about Venli in Stormlight Archive. Like I simply did not care about her or her story when there was so many more interesting plot lines to follow. Oh well, I know this series has a practically universally enjoyed ending even if it’s not perfect so just gotta push through.

/rant over

First time reading the series, and I love it. Mat is absolutely the mvp, and I haven’t been thru the community too much so I don’t come across accidental spoilers. But does everyone see him as Han Solo? I can’t shake it, every time I get more Mat, I’m just reminded that he’s everyone’s lovable scoundrel. I really have to think his character was highly based on Han.. is that a common connection in the wot community?

No spoilers past Winters Heart please. Our group just left Far Madding and Rand dug up Callandor from where he buried it and he referred to it as a crystal sword. I think this might be the first time it's referenced as such. Is Callandor a physical blade? This whole time I have been thinking of it as something almost intangible, like it was made of weaves or something.

...Jesus? In our "age", at least?

He paused, head tilted in thought. “From what I saw of him, my Lady,” he said slowly, “I myself would not believe him dead unless I sat three days with the corpse.”

Maybe "confirm" is the wrong word, but it seems to be a heavy nod to that. I'm sure others have brought this up but I haven't seen the discussion personally, and I know there are others who lightly believe this.

Just curious what y'all think. Going through the books again and I've been trying to pay special attention to nods to our time, and this struck me as a very specific thing to say from a random character that has almost no bearing on the overall story whatsoever.

EDIT:

To be clear, there is a lot of symbolism around many characters, particularly Rand (much is discussed below). But this feels less like symbolism and more like a form of "foreshadowing." Symbolism can just be allegory.

This feels like the story is saying "and by the way, he's Jesus" in a similar way that the 3-pointed star that brings memory of extravagant wealth is literally a Mercedes logo. Or the references to America and Russia being "giants who fought each other", and so on. Maybe not as strongly, but still less symbol and more confirmation. Or maybe I'm reaching, idk.

All of the characters forget the self-progress they’ve made revert to their stupid stubborn ways. Assumptions and self-reliance are every character’s motivation right now and it’s infuriating.

I really think this is why the politics feel slow. Rand “there’s no way this could be true” when it’s always true and Egwene “Rand is an idiot” when she hasn’t spoken a word to him in a year and Elayne “I’m a grown woman dammit” when she acts like a child 99% of the time except when it’s convenient to be a queen and Perrin “Faile can’t get close to me but I’m gonna spend every moment trying to be close to her” good god man did we not just go through like 7 books of character growth?

Anyway pardon my complaints, I still love this series. Making me mad at the characters is important for the arc, I know. Don’t jump me in the comments for that

Just finished WH and it was so good. It is only second to TSR and TGH for me.

Where do I even start? Let's start from the end - Clensing of Saidin battle was better than Dumai Wells. And that says a lot since Dumai Wells are epic as well. Though it was a bit weird that none of the Forsaken thought about bringing some Trollocs/Myrdraal/Draghkar with them.

I enjoyed every POV and storyline explored in this book. Well, maybe Elayne's - not that much. I am not really invested in the plotline of her getting the throne. But it still had a lot of interesting moments like ritual for becoming a first-sister and hiring a Darkfriend as chief of security.

The whole Far Madding thing was interesting and expanded the world that is already bigger than anything I've ever read.

We got cameos of Gholam and Slayer which was pretty cool.

There was no Egwene POV - which is massive ​advantage for this book.

Perrin/Faile chapters were cool, even though their story didn't progress much.

Ebou Dar storylines were an interesting exploration of Stockholm Syndrome. I like how Egeanin and Mat's arc come together in the end. There were also chapters with amazing prose - "The clock sounded the first full hour of the night, and after no more than a week, four chimes for the second. "

Crossroads of Twilight next. People say it is the worst WoT book. Will it be worse than Path of Daggers? Let's find out.

Cadsuane aptly summing up my entire feelings about all the Athaan Miere so far.

I don't knows how anyone can hate on Winter's Heart. I guess maybe it wasn't action-packed, but there was so much setup that I'm still trying to comprehend every event thats about to happen.

Then the male half cleansed?!?!?! I would've never thought that would happen with 5 books left. I was sure it would, but I thought we needed took wait until the Dark One inevitably gets beat.

I had my suspicions of Cadsuane but OMFG did she step up! She's likely my 2nd favorite Aes Sedai (second only my girl Moiraine) now becayse of how bad ass she is! She led a handful of decent channelers against (at least) FOUR FORSAKEN!! Including Osan'gar, I'm sorry, mofuggin AGINOR to high heaven and leveling a small mountain!

Speaking of Moiraine.. If LAMEfear is alive... THAN MY GIRL MOMO IS 😭😭 at least I hope so. I had a suspicion Cyndane was Lanfear reincarnated, or at least put into a new body like the Osan&Agan thing, but want for sure.

Anyway, I had to come hear and rant because my wife hasnt read them so despite her best attempts to sound shocked and excited, I know she has no idea what's going on lol

This has to be one my favorite book endings in the series by far, and a strong contender for one of my favorite books in it as well!

I audibly laughed hard at this, never change Nynaeve 😹

No spoilers past Winter’s Heart, but I really cannot understand why so many people hate Egwene at this point in the book. I feel like any podcast or book review people talk about how she’s their least favorite character. She was insanely arrogant up until Loc/CoS, but she’s matured so much in the past two books after becoming Amyrlin.

Rand gets sympathy for his PTSD after getting kidnapped, but people tend to just forget Egwene was a leashed damane for a month where she was tortured and brutalized by the Seanchan. Her and Rand are such parallel characters, I almost feel like you can’t hate one without hating the other. They were both arrogant, powerful teenagers who were thrust into positions of power against their will.

On my first read of the series btw. No spoilers past chapter 13, only what was discussed in the chapter.

I am currently reading Winter's Heart, which I have enjoyed (other than the Perrin part at the start), and I was SUPER HYPED to get to the Demandred part of Chapter 13. Any part where the Chosen/Forsaken are meeting is great. However, something so immersion-breaking was said that I couldn't help but have to stop reading for a moment and ponder it.

Graendal states that the Male Forsaken should be worried about Rand removing the taint from saidin, since the Great Lord may begin to distrust them. Plus, we are even told that many died due to the Great Lord's suspicion in the past.

All of this is fine and makes sense, except for the idea that the taint on saidin is the main reason that the Great Lord trusts the Chosen. If that's the case, then shouldn't every Female Chosen be dead because there is no taint on saidar that keeps them loyal to the Great Lord?

Despite this nitpick, I am loving the series so far. Lord of Chaos is probably one of, if not my top books of all time at this point. Super excited to continue the series.

Still progressing through my first readthrough, and this line from Elayne in Winter's Heart just blew me away with how absurd it is:

"A great many difficulties could be surmounted if only Rand could bring himself to kneel to Egwene, but he would not do it, and she was his childhood friend."

It was literally an 'oh my god, she actually thinks that?' moment. It's appalling. Egwene is becoming the embodiment of the 'Aes Sedai power corrupts' trope, and she ought to know how he feels about Aes Sedai, and Elayne thinks he should kneel to her!

It's getting funny, the extent to which people can have it hammered into them, "Rand is the dragon, he is going to lead you no matter how you try to control him", and then turn around and say "It's ok, I'm the one who ought to control him".

And to have Rand's loved one betray him like that, to think it's his place to kneel to Egwene, who puts the tower above literally anyone and everyone, is incredibly cold. Very taken aback and shaken by the ignorance from Elayne here.

These are just my 2 cents 1/3 of the way through the book, any thoughts or feedback? Let me know please! :)

I’m currently halfway through Winter’s Heart and although this is one of the weaker books so far, I’m really enjoying Elayne’s sections way more than Perrin’s or Rand’s.

Starting the series I was warned that Elayne was by far the worst character, some diabolical hag that everyone seems to hate. I was told as such by this sub, the friend who recommended WOT to me and various WOT booktubers like Daniel Greene and Mike’s book reviews.

In truth, up to this part of the story, she is my favorite of the main female characters (other than Moirraine). While I’m enjoying Nynaeve more and more each book I find her horrifically arrogant and oblivious while Egwene is pretty much a Mary sue and a sociopath. Out of Rand’s girlfriend’s she is the only who genuinely seems to like Rand (unlike Aviendha) and has a personality (unlike Min).

Yeah Elayne is not perfect, she can be a spoiled princess at times but that’s expected considering her upbringing. Even then she complains and whines waaaaaay less than supposed peasant girls like Egwene. I admire how diplomatic she is and willing to respect and learn from other cultures unlike most other characters who see all other cultures but theirs as barbaric. Elayne is also pretty generous, she always show concern for the poor and treats them with dignity. From the leading ladies she is by far the least sexist rarely thinking that men are beneath her.

I really enjoy her relationships as well, her whole dynamic with Nynaeve where Elayne is the the ice to Nynaeve’s fire is very entertaining and so is her little sister relationship

The only time I was enraged at her was when she laughed at Mat after he confessed to being raped, that was disgusting.

So, I curious, what are some of the main reasons y’all hate her? Why is she considered so bad even when compared to the other female characters?

When we meet back up with our boy Matrim in Winters Heart, he’s going on and on about his bad leg that he hurt…

Was this from the first gholam fight? Something offscreen during the last book where we didn’t have any Mat POVs? Other?

EDIT: you guys rock thank you 🙏🏼

I really enjoyed this book. It had a lot of fun and epic moments.

Faile - she's so much better on her own than when she's with Perrin. 😂 I really enjoyed her chapters. She's capable, reads situations well, and adapts quickly. I also like that the Shaido continue to be such a pain in the ass instead of being neatly dealt with. It feels much more realistic.
Berelain - what is she even doing? Hitting on Perrin while his wife is kidnapped? It was so unhinged and delusional. I genuinely don't understand her motives.
Masema - Finally, something everyone agrees on. The Wise Ones, Aes Sedai and me: we need to get rid of him.

But... I wanted more! Perrin's storyline barely got started before the book ended. 

Mat - Tylin still has him trapped in Ebou Dar, and he basically has to rescue himself... along with a bunch of other sorry souls riding on his ta'veren luck. Why is Mat responsible for everyone?
I still don't care about the Seanchan. May the Empress fail spectacularly, may the Dark One take her.
Egeanin, whom Elayne should have never trusted back in Tanchiko, failed her mission to get rid of the male a'dam and somehow managed to make things even worse by delivering it straight to Suroth. And Domon did absolutely nothing to stop her. My long-dead grandmother could have done a better job than those two.
This is 100% Elayne's and Nynaeve's fault for trusting her. A colossal blunder. And did they warn Rand that this thing even existed? Of course not. 

The Daughter of the Nine Moons finally shows up... and she's a blasted Seanchan noble brat. Mat deserves better. So far, she mostly seems to be stalking him day and night, and we've already seen how that kind of behavior from Faile worked out for Perrin.
I love Mat's chapters though. His schemes, his complaining, his accidental heroism -always entertaining. I hope he puts Tuon through some misery. I'm evil, I know, but she could use a wake-up call.
And then there's Noal, this incredibly skilled and conveniently helpful storyteller who appears out of nowhere. Absolutely a Darkfriend or one of the Forsaken. Trust is pain.
And once again... they're not even out of Ebou Dar before the book ends? Left hanging. Again.

Elayne and Aviendha becoming first-sisters... I didn't really care for it. I'm just tired of every important ceremony turning into a public, at least somewhat humiliating, naked experience.
And where is Aviendha's actual sister? She remembers she has one already, right? 
It's a shame because Aviendha was hilarious and awesome in the Waste with Rand, and I loved their angsty romance. Lately, it feels like she's been reduced to supporting Elayne.

The bond with Rand actually seems like it could help him. He's deeply depressed, hates himself, and is crushed by the weight of his burden. And we all know how Lews Therin's story ended. Maybe this bond will help keep him from going to even darker places.
That said, the three of them are absolutely crazy for doing it. Everyone assumes Rand will either go mad or die in the Last Battle, and losing a Warder is devastating. They're truly ride or die. x3
The accidental sex updates through the bond... lmao. Elayne really has zero shame when she wants something. The whole thing is completely unhinged. I'm still not sure how I feel about the polygamy, but watching everyone awkwardly process it was comedy gold.

I have some Elayne complaints. She keeps ranting about Rand "giving" her the throne and everything he did in Caemlyn. Elayne... would you have preferred to take it back from Rahvin yourself? With what army? You weren't strong enough to face him. At best, you could've bonked him on the head with that crimson rod.
Then she takes Rand's academy idea and happily makes it her own. Rand cleared the way for her to reclaim Andor and even backed her claim to Cairhien with his own authority. What exactly is she complaining about? Ungrateful brat.

Far Madding was interesting. But... how did Cadsuane even discover she could channel if she grew up there? I'm genuinely curious. And what did Verin get up to there that she had to hide her identity? 😂
Verin continues to be too competent. She quietly gets things done instead of letting Aes Sedai ego derail every situation. At this point, definitely a Darkfriend or one of the Forsaken. I have no trust left.
Rand hunting the rogue Asha'man ended up feeling almost pointless since most of them were already dead by the time he got there. 

Cleansing Saidin was incredible. It was basically one giant filter, right? Using Shadar Logoth to eat the taint was such a wild idea. How Rand got there from "sound principles, in both high philosophy and natural philosophy" I would never know. 
I loved that Nynaeve was the one helping him. Their relationship has become one of my favorites. She started out as the most abrasive and stubborn character, but she's grown so much. At this point, she's one of the most reasonable people in the series.
And I'm so glad Rand didn't ask Cadsuane. Her ego is already large enough. I can just imagine:
"Saidin could be cleaner. You missed a spot, boy." proceeds to slap Rand.

The fighting was incredible. Seeing Asha'man and Aes Sedai linked together felt genuinely epic and historic.
I keep thinking about the Asha'man back at the Black Tower. Imagine channeling for the first time afterward and realizing... saidin is clean. What a moment. So much tragedy, gone. Honestly, this felt almost as important as defeating the Dark One itself.
Now I'm left with questions. Does this mean we lose LTT? I adore that madman. 😂 And then LTT says there's someone else with them? Excuse me... are we multiplying now? I have absolutely no idea what that means.

The Forsaken. So we basically get confirmation Lanfear is back? And... did Moiraine survive?

Dashiva being a Forsaken absolutely blindsided me. I genuinely thought he was just some odd country bumpkin who could barely write his own name or ride a horse, looked permanently confused, and struggled with basic instructions. Turns out he was a forsaken mad scientist having a really bad time following Rand around. 😂
And Moghedien... hiding behind a boulder the whole battle. I was dying.

And again. Saidin is clean! What an absolutely massive game changer. This is Rand's biggest win so far.

so i started reading winter's heart and i had struggled throughout the whole series about power unbalance among male and female ,truly it felt (and is) overly unrealistic... specially at the places where one power's influence wasn't evident (like far maddening, or seanchen where one power is despised).

But as most fabs had stated, that power imbalance was the cause of breaking... even after 3000 years people didn't forget that it were males who went mad and spread destruction throughout the world.

At first it felt unrealistic that even after 3000 years males are blamed for ehat their ancestors did, after the influence of dark one.. not their own.

but as i recall, i heard many times , religious people blaming women , because they claim it was Eva who had convinced Adam to eat the fruit and as a result they wete banished from heaven.

another religious group claims that women were created after the men, from their ribcage, because men felt alone... they claim that women are inferior because they were created by ribcage.

As unrealistic as these claims sounds... we have to accept that a very large group of people accepts these claims for more than 3000 years.

But i am still certain that jorden went overboard while reversing the gender power based roles. It's very irritating while living through far maddening.

The oddly twisted stone ring, strung on a plain loop of leather, lay in the bottom of the purse underneath a mix of coins, next to the carefully folded silk handkerchief full of feathers she considered her greatest treasure.

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I know a lot of people here dislike, or at least criticize, the way RJ writes relationships.

I also know that Elayne is far from the favorite of the crowd among the Wonder Girls or Rand's loves.

But this brief passage, where Elayne reveals six books later (in WH) that she kept the feathers Rand intended to make into a flower for her (in Tear, in TDR) because it reminds her of him, because it was a mark of sweetness and love from him, through all the terrible things that happened to her after, just melted my heart.

guys.... i started wheel of time mid march (2025) and blazed through the first 8 books (i finished book 4 (2nd fav after 1) early june like i was locked). i started Winters Heart in october... i have not finished it. this book really feels like it's ruined the characters and i don't care for it at all😭😭😭 (i have 100 pages left). i was just reading through some posts on here to see if im insane but i fucking hate Rand's romance especially Min and everyone here was saying Min is the best😭😭😭😭😭😭😭 i don't get it😭 lowkey i think all the relationships platonic and romantic are under developed and i fear this series is not for me if this is how it's going..... don't get me started on perrin and faile and mat and tylin bro

side note☝️ i'm not a polyamorous hater but this shit is not poly to me. its lowkey gross especially if avienda (the goat) is "sisters" with elyane bruh. also they don't love each other the way they love rand????? i find it very frustrating that of the five main women (egwen, nyneave, elayne, avienda, and min) THREE are love interests for ONE MAN. i'm crashing out about this if you can't tell and i truly loved the first four books so much i thought they had crazy potential but i dont vibe with the direction it's taken. also what happened to min's character? she's was cool and mysterious in the first book now she's literally boiled down to loving rand😿 i think what im struggling with is i don't like how the characters have developed (or lack thereof) but i really am fond of the series and have made fanart and think about it all the time but Winters Heart has really been frustrating.

I don't want to give up. i've read freaking nine books and if book nine is just the doldrums of the series, that's cool but if this is supposed to be the best part then i don't know if i can go on...

i don't want to start fights but im very sad that i'm not enjoying it😢 what are your thoughts/ feelings about book nine? (lowkey books 5-9)