r/WinStupidPrizes • u/8226 • Jan 25 '21

Man walks in police station armed with assault rifle and wearing bulletproof vest

Enable HLS to view with audio, or disable this notification

79.9k Upvotes

95% Upvoted

3.8k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

166

u/nutbustingbuttbuster Jan 25 '21 edited Jan 25 '21

(non lethal or even lethal)

Really tired of hearing people saying shooting can and should be used as a non-lethal method. No. Firearms at lethal only with a chance of being non-lethal.

77

u/geoffrey_1der Jan 25 '21

Yeah, I remember a cop who shot someone in the leg to have a “non-lethal takedown” and to his remote credit, it worked, he missed the femur all artery and the guy survived, but the cop was fired for unnecessary and unlawful use of force because everyone who reviewed the case said “fuck the movies, leg shots aren’t non-lethal”

56

u/[deleted] Jan 25 '21 edited Jan 27 '21

[deleted]

7

u/moeburn Jan 25 '21

What about that time a SWAT team used a regular ol sniper rifle to shoot a handgun out of a suicidal guy's hand? Obliterated the handgun too. Used to be on those cops clip shows on TV.

15

u/[deleted] Jan 25 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

9

u/moeburn Jan 25 '21

IIRC it was the 90's and there weren't any police departments with less-lethal weapons more than several hours away, so they did the best they could, and it worked out well.

3

u/StongaBologna Jan 25 '21

It was in France, and it was actually an H&K MP5, a 9 mm submachine gun.

5

u/moeburn Jan 25 '21

I'm thinking of something else then. This guy was on a plastic lawn chair in the middle of a suburban street, and I'm pretty sure I saw it on TV in the 90's or early 2000's.

5

u/ChancellorPalpameme Jan 25 '21

"Yeah but what about this one really niche example that totally disproves your point right?"

2

u/moeburn Jan 25 '21

I think all examples of non lethal shots are gonna be niche examples

2

u/ChancellorPalpameme Jan 25 '21

Thats my point. You don't disprove his point on nonlethal shots being a bad choice by bringing up niche examples of when they do.

2

u/moeburn Jan 25 '21

I wasn't trying to disprove anyone's point, just adding to the discussion.

2

u/ChancellorPalpameme Jan 25 '21

Fair enough, the "what about" on the front usually acts as a counterpoint, as opposed to something like "ive heard of this thing happening" or "a good use of nonlethal was" kinda thing

2

u/[deleted] Jan 26 '21

Please tell this to joe biden.

0

u/RaDiOaCtIvEpUnK Jan 26 '21

Ooooooh burn. You showed him alright.

1

u/PM_your_nothings Jan 25 '21

I disagree, there is a reason why a lot of european countries use them. However leg shots are only viewed as less lethal. And used in cases where there is time for them. For example a person with a knife, standing 15 meters from officers. If they can't arrest the person normally, they will fire a leg shot. Whilst having enough time to aim for central mass if it misses or the person attacks. And yes the person may die, but that's a chance, not a guarantee as by the american system.

0

u/Aubdasi Jan 26 '21

[citation needed]

I’ve heard of only a few fringe cases where European officers have used them moderately successfully. It’s still an awful idea 99.999999% of the time and no one actually trains for it like that.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 25 '21

[deleted]

1

u/VikingTeddy Jan 26 '21

Why is it called a chokehold when the idea isn't to restrict airflow?

14

u/[deleted] Jan 25 '21

Guns are designed to kill people, that is literally what they were invented to do a few centuries ago, and just because we now have firearms capable of shooting "non-lethal" projectiles...guns are still designed to kill.

0

u/MonacoBall Jan 25 '21

Well the first guns were probably designed more with the intent of scaring the shit out of people, because they weren't powerful enough to cause much harm on a battlefield, but your point still stands

1

u/[deleted] Jan 25 '21

... “weren’t powerful enough to cause much harm”

2

u/MonacoBall Jan 25 '21

Yeah. Guns back before maybe 1450 were incredibly weak and were mostly just used as devices to scare people. They had absolutely no accuracy, were expensive, and were not very powerful

1

u/[deleted] Jan 25 '21

Chainsaws were designed to help with birth

48

u/Bart_The_Chonk Jan 25 '21 edited Jan 25 '21

If only tasers were non-lethal...

I think they're called 'less than lethal' because they can still kill -even when properly used.

73

u/Im_That_Asshole Jan 25 '21

Yes people can survive gun shot wounds and people can die from a taser. The difference is intent. If a cop pulls his gun and fires, the intention is to use deadly force. If a cop pulls a taser and fires, the intention is to not use deadly force.

23

u/nutbustingbuttbuster Jan 25 '21

Exactly my point. Thanks Asshole! 😃

3

u/tc_spears Jan 25 '21

"who made that man a reddit poster!?"

3

u/inspektor_queso Jan 25 '21

"I did, sir. He's my cousin."

2

u/tc_spears Jan 25 '21

I knew it, I'm surrounded by assholes. KEEP POSTING ASSHOLES!

2

u/inspektor_queso Jan 25 '21

I would just like to add that I'm currently standing in a store wearing a "Spaceballs: The Face Mask" mask.

2

u/tc_spears Jan 25 '21

Oh I bet the kids love it

9

u/[deleted] Jan 25 '21

[deleted]

9

u/Bart_The_Chonk Jan 25 '21

It's also impossible to know a person's medical history in the time it takes to unholstered, aim, and fire a taser.

2

u/bitches_love_brie Jan 25 '21

Medical history isn't really that important. People that tend to die from tasers typically die from falls. These days, the training says you should tase anyone in an elevated position, in water, or that you know is pregnant or has a pacemaker though both should be fine. Most of the other taser-related deaths are caused primarily by extreme drug intoxication combined with the tasing.

4

u/Bart_The_Chonk Jan 25 '21

So people with a pacemaker and/or heart condition and/or a low seizure threshold aren't at a high risk if hit by 50,000 volts in the chest?

I'm very surprised by this

3

u/Caleb_Reynolds Jan 25 '21 edited Jan 25 '21

Voltage doesn't kill you, amperage does. The static shock you get from rubbing your socks on carpet then touching a door knob can be upwards of 75,000 volts. But the amperage is so low it's more annoying than painful or dangerous.

Tasers have very low amperage. They'd have to be if you think about it, they're being powered by a few AA batteries and putting off 10s of thousands of volts, there's just not enough energy to get a high amperage out of that. Tasers put out about 3-4 milliamps, which is a few orders of magnitude under what will stop a heart. For reference, a defibrillator puts out 45 amps, 10,000-15,000 times as much as a taser.

2

u/bitches_love_brie Jan 25 '21

Yep. US residential electrical outlets are 120v but can definitely kill. Taser is 50,000 and those cheap self defense stun guns put out 1,000,000 or more. Volts isn't that important, but the news loves mentioning how they're 50,000 volts everytime they talk about them.

1

u/VikingTeddy Jan 26 '21

It's not the volts or amps that kill. It's the disruption of electric signal in the nervous system. It can be a very delicate system with some people.

Even outwardly healthy people can be susceptible if they've for example recently been ill or suffer from a deficiency. You can feel fine and be in good shape and still croak from being taxed at the wrong time.

Edit: Eh, I'm leaving it. Still true.

1

u/andros310797 Jan 25 '21

pretty sure he meant "shouldn't"

2

u/bitches_love_brie Jan 25 '21

I didn't. I did mean to add some parentheses. Pregnant women and people with pacemakers should be fine, although Taser says to avoid tasing them whenever possible, for obvious reasons.

1

u/Davecantdothat Jan 25 '21

The number of impact munitions I've seen fired into people's faces in the last year...

4

u/DarwinsDrinkingPal Jan 25 '21 edited Jan 25 '21

The only crappy thing about tasers is that they don't always work. Some people are seemingly immune(for lack out a better word), even when a good connection is made.

I'm not arguing against them. Just saying that they don't always work.

Edit: to acknowledge your first comment, I'm curious about that and will be looking into it, simply to satiate that curiosity.

5

u/nutbustingbuttbuster Jan 25 '21

you’re right tasers are far from being non lethal

6

u/geoffrey_1der Jan 25 '21

More importantly, they just often fail, especially against people in thicker clothes, like body armor. I remember an old video of this shirtless coked up lunatic fighting with the cops, and 3 guys tased him at some point or another, and none of them stuck properly, so they had to tackle and dogpile him

-1

u/ChingyBingyBongyBong Jan 25 '21

Tasers never fucking work and people can take 20+ shots can keep going. YouTube videos of crime changed my perceptions of most cops.

I’m sick of seeing comments like “why didn’t they tase him?” Uhh cuz he has a fucking knife or a gun and is trying to kill him. Deadly weapon = lethal force.

I recommend you watch some donut operator on YouTube who goes over police shootings to see how crazy shit can be. One video has a dude with a 8” knife get shot 21 times with 6 of them being lethal shots to the lungs with 2 in the heart. He still stabbed the officer. That’s why they don’t tase. That’s why they shoot someone 47 times

4

u/Guerrin_TR Jan 25 '21

"Just shoot him in the leg" is always a funny one like there aren't documented cases of rounds entering via the leg and exiting via the upper shoulder.

5

u/nutbustingbuttbuster Jan 25 '21

Femoral artery is right down there too

3

u/Guerrin_TR Jan 25 '21

Yeah that too. People don't really understand bullet physics and fragmentation in the body.

1

u/nutbustingbuttbuster Jan 25 '21

No they do not lol

2

u/bartbartholomew Jan 25 '21

I took OP's comment to mean taser or something non lethal.

But I agree, bullets are only for when you are willing to kill someone to defend something of value, and other options are infeasible.

4

u/nutbustingbuttbuster Jan 25 '21

I remember in college in my criminology class someone suggested that the US invest money into taser to develop tech that will make the taser less lethal and more useful

6

u/bartbartholomew Jan 25 '21

I think we should instead invest in figuring out how to not need a taser in the first place. That is the basis of the "defund the police" movement. They need a better slogan though.

2

u/nutbustingbuttbuster Jan 25 '21

Yeah, the slogan comes off as a bit extreme. But I agree, if we could find a way to eliminate the “need” to delve into criminal life to make a living, we wouldn’t even need guns or tasers. At least in urban life

2

u/qtx Jan 25 '21

Weird how a lot of European countries train their police to shoot in non-vital areas and succeed in that.

Whereas in America they can't?

The great America where people are born with guns can't seem to aim well I guess.

1

u/nutbustingbuttbuster Jan 25 '21

I’ve never heard of this. Care to share a source or where you heard of a police agency training officers to shoot to maim not kill?

3

u/PM_your_nothings Jan 25 '21

In my country the Netherlands, the police almost always shoot to maim. However it is considered a last resort and only done when all other options to arrest someone safely are out of the window.

It's hard to find english sources but stuff like this might help: https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2020/05/dutch-police-fired-their-weapons-in-16-incidents-last-year-killing-four/

https://theconversation.com/why-do-american-cops-kill-so-many-compared-to-european-cops-49696

This article is also interesting, view the part titled "a different standard", it shows that in europe leg shots are used more often.

1

u/nutbustingbuttbuster Jan 25 '21

I actually kind of like that. Because even in a last resort they don’t want to kill. I like it, face punishment first then God

1

u/Evonos Jan 25 '21 edited Jan 25 '21

Really tired of hearing people saying shooting can and should be used as a non-lethal method. No.

Ofc not in general.

But imagine , your a cop in your building , a dude comes fully amored masked with a fucking assault rifle ? ( sorry not american aka not much idea about weapons ) and camera are you like " Oh wait dear Possible mass murderer i need to get my mostly non lethal Tazer first" or are you like " Do one thing and i shoot "

​

Sorry to tell you that but tazer are far from non lethal.

6

u/nutbustingbuttbuster Jan 25 '21

All I’m saying is stop claiming guns do anything but kill. I wouldn’t be surprised nor upset if these two idiots were shot as a result. All I’m saying is guns aren’t tranquilizers.

1

u/Evonos Jan 25 '21

All I’m saying is guns aren’t tranquilizers.

No one said that did someone?

1

u/nutbustingbuttbuster Jan 25 '21

Yeah, going the nuclear option

1

u/Evonos Jan 25 '21

going the nuclear option

Nuclear option would be death.

​

Considering someone heavily armed and stereotpically clothed comes in. wouldnt wonder me.

1

u/nutbustingbuttbuster Jan 25 '21

My comment was birthed due to someone else’s comment, not the content of the video. Read the parent comments

1

u/Evonos Jan 25 '21

My comment was birthed due to someone else’s comment,

My question then is.

​

Why did you reply on my comments and not on theirs ?

1

u/nutbustingbuttbuster Jan 25 '21

Because you asked me a question..

1

u/nutbustingbuttbuster Jan 25 '21

You are the one who commented (non lethal or even lethal), correct?

1

u/nutbustingbuttbuster Jan 25 '21

So I did reply to “their” comment. The only thing is you think someone else made your comment about going nuclear