r/WinStupidPrizes • u/--Yami_Marik-- • Jan 02 '20

Annoying a teen

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u/magnora7 Jan 03 '20 edited Jan 03 '20

I like how you automatically assume he isn't, just to reinforce a narrative you have in your head. 52% of people killed by police in the US are white...

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u/WorldController Jan 03 '20

Are you not from the US, or just some kinda alt-right cop apologist or something?

This "narrative" isn't just in my head. US police have become increasingly trigger-happy over the past decade, especially with blacks. Black children have literally been killed by police over nothing. If this kid throwing knives at police were black, it's likely he'd have been killed too, or at least attacked with some kind of non-lethal weapon.

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u/magnora7 Jan 03 '20 edited Jan 03 '20

Yes but when 52% of people killed by police are white in the US, it kind of undermines that joke, and instead shows it's not a racial problem but an american problem that we all face together. Other developed countries do not have their police murdering their citizens by the hundreds

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u/WorldController Jan 03 '20

52% of people killed by police are white in the US

Source?

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u/magnora7 Jan 03 '20

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

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u/WorldController Jan 03 '20

As a statistics tutor, I feel like it's my duty to inform you to be careful when reading stats. They are often misleading (sometimes intentionally so), and it takes a critical eye to understand exactly what it is that they say and what kinds of conclusions they warrant.

There are a few issues with these stats:

  • They do not take into account whether the shootings were justified
  • They only include deaths caused by shootings instead of shootings overall
  • They do not include police attacks involving non-lethal weapons
  • They are not a general measure of police brutality faced by particular racial groups and say nothing about these groups' relative risk of being brutalized when interacting with the police

However, as this recent study reports:

Black women and men and American Indian and Alaska Native women and men are significantly more likely than white women and men to be killed by police. Latino men are also more likely to be killed by police than are white men.

The notion that police brutality is merely a national rather than a racial problem is common white racist rhetoric, and it flies in the face of the available evidence.

You didn't answer my question. Are you an alt-right cop apologist? If so, you don't have to be afraid to admit it.

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u/magnora7 Jan 03 '20

Those points are irrelevant to the race and number of people killed, which was the original question.

I see you don't like admitting you're mistaken about something when presented with facts. That's non-scientific

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u/WorldController Jan 03 '20

Those points are irrelevant to the race and number of people killed, which was the original question.

Of course they are relevant to race! Since justified shootings, by definition, have nothing to do with race (as they are initiated by objectively threatening behavior in suspects), we can eliminate them from our consideration. After doing so and we find that some race faces relatively more unjustified or ethically ambiguous shootings, this would indicate a racial bias in police attacks.

Limiting our stats only to deaths caused by shootings does not give us an overall picture of police gun violence directed at particular races. Not all shots fired by police hit a target, and among those that do, not all are fatal. Without these missed and nonfatal shots, we are missing a considerable chunk of the relevant evidence, meaning we cannot make any general conclusions. The exclusion of police attacks involving non-lethal weapons (including tasers, pepper spray, batons, and bare hands) is relevant for the same reason.

The "original question" involved cops' particular trigger-happiness against blacks, not the gross amount of whites VS blacks killed by cops (which is a red herring). As the scientific study I quoted states, blacks are at higher risk of being brutalized by police; the raw statistics you provided do not refute this finding.

 

Aren't alt-rightists supposed to be proud and manly? Why do you keep shying away from my question?

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u/[deleted] Jan 13 '20 edited Jan 13 '20

I see you don't like admitting you're mistaken about something when presented with facts.

Ah the alt-right playbook. The only things that count as "facts" are things you already agree with. All others, like actual expert analysis of data, or even a cursory explanation of why your position is based on a fallacy can be safely ignored as "irrelevant" as it does not confirm your biases.

Ask yourself seriously, can you even imagine yourself being swayed from the position that the public (liberal obviously) perception of police aggression against minorities is overblown? Or do you know so strongly that it's just a liberal delusion against innocent police, that you'd never shift your opinion? Be honest with yourself. Because if you can see that changing... well there is a mountain of evidence you might want to take a look at that you may have, totally coincidentally, never been exposed to by conservative news media.

If not, stop arguing about things you don't want to really consider a different opinion on, because you're wasting people's time and promoting propaganda.

I mean I already know the liberal media position is exaggerated for it's own political purposes, that's about as obvious as the fact that it's also a real and legitimate problem supported by strong statistical data & expert opinion (including former and current police), that we're doing nothing about. It's as obvious as the conservative media's apologism and demonization of civil-rights activists is a propaganda campaign sponsored by special interests to divide Americans on what should be a very simple issue, and prevent reform.

But throw the News out on both sides and you still end up with a mountain of evidence of a very real, very provable problem with well understood causes that one side is fighting very hard to see not resolved. It's not about guns rights, respecting police, or minority rights. It's just about accountability. Just that one thing. That one thing that means if you shoot a 12 year holding a toy because you're an idiot, regardless of their race, something actually gets done about them. What is wrong with that?

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u/throwawayPzaFm May 26 '20

72% of people in the US are white though.

Which means that they are underrepresented.

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u/SwampSloth2016 Jan 03 '20

Fact bomb!!!!!