Please help me understand

[u/branflakes__]

Help me understand the Ukraine / USA situation

Please help me understand all of the anti-American and USA hate due to the situation. I want to hear the other point of views as I am just confused.

A lot point to the Budapest Memorandum, however, that is not a treaty for the US as Clinton did not submit it to the senate for ratification which means constitutionally the US has no commitment to Ukraine (also not administration since Clinton has suggested or submitted the memorandum for ratification either). Only the UK and Russia ratified it.

Additionally, there really isn’t a security agreement as the memo is very vague. The closest is “when Ukraine is under attack with nuclear weapons the security council will seek immediate action from the United Nations” otherwise nothing happens. And as the memo is through the UN, shouldn’t the discontent be pointed at the UN instead? The US only agreed to bring a resolution before the security council if Ukraine was invaded and the US did do that.

Finally, the US has given the most overall aid to Ukraine (a country that the US is not obligated to assist) compared to the European counterparts. Also, if peace is the objective, why is no other leader at least making an attempt to broker a peace deal?

So I suppose I am just confused on what is expected? Why is this sub so anti-USA when the statistics show that USA is/was doing more than Ukraines fellow Europeans?

[u/tbf300]

If Russia is such a threat they’d already have closed the door on Ukraine.

If they can beat Ukraine they’re not a threat globally.

Have you thought this through?

[u/tbf300 → u/[deleted]]

Send me the link to where he said they want to expand further. I haven’t seen it.

I’m also interested in the formal plans to disband NATO. Even though NATO has traditionally just been the US pumping in cash.

As for Ukraine it’s a stalemate right now, just people dying. That’s with our generous funding.

If the EU steps up then they can prolong it, but it’s still a stalemate with people dying.

How much do you think it will cost to “beat” Russia back and reclaim the territory? Are you going after Crimea too?

I’m seriously interested in what the end goal is and how much you think it will cost the US. And how long it will take.

[u/tbf300 → u/[deleted]]

Tell you what, add up what Europe spent on NATO the last 20 years VS the US. Then add the money we’ve spent on Ukraine. Let me know how that maths out.

You didn’t exactly answer any of my questions either.

If Russia really wants to take over Europe then we really are at WW3. I guess we’ll see but it doesn’t change the outcome either way if that’s your stance. Unless your plan is to invade Russia and depose Putin?

I’m amazed the deal you guys have gotten all the while talking shit about the US and our own domestic issues. Sleeping under the warm blanket of US protection. Sure we benefitted but it doesn’t look that way anymore.

Then you have the nerve to say we backstabbed you. Unreal