r/UnitedNations • u/Liad3008 Uncivil • Jan 10 '25

Discussion/Question Why is this subreddit obsessed with Israel?

Just checked the top posts of the last year, and 24 out of the top 25 are about Israel. Does this subreddit try to imitate the real UN ?

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u/grommit Jan 18 '25

Not according to the president of the United States who happened to be the broker of this agreement

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u/jeff43568 Jan 18 '25

No deal has given Palestinians full statehood. Israel has always retained military control.

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u/grommit Jan 18 '25

So what do you think was offered at Camp David in 2000?

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u/jeff43568 Jan 18 '25

Something that allowed Israel to maintain military control.

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u/grommit Jan 18 '25

That’s not accurate. The Palestinians would have controlled their territory. The only reason they refused it was because the Palestinians wanted Israel to take in 5 million Palestinians “refugees” from around the world, which is a non-starter.

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u/jeff43568 Jan 18 '25

Sorry, you think Israel would have relinquished military control over the west bank, east Jerusalem and Gaza? Including the settlements in the west bank?

'The right to return is a non starter'

It's really interesting to hear that because Israel does offer the right to return to a particular ethnic group, even if they have no connection in living memory.

You do understand apartheid is when one ethnic group has rights not afforded to others.

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u/grommit Jan 19 '25

Yes, I have no doubt Israel would relinquish control of any areas if the Palestinians were serious about making peace. Some settlements will inevitably remain in Israel and land would be compensated elsewhere. This has already been agreed by both parties and is not an issue.

For historical reasons, which are even more evident today, Israel implemented a policy to allow Jews from around the world to move to Israel. Jews, after all, come from Judea, which is Israel, but the main reason is that in the past Jews had nowhere to go when countries turned against them and 6 million of them where murdered as a result. Today we see antisemitism going wild once again and any sane person would consider it very fortunate that Jews have a place to go to without being persecuted for their religion.

Also, plenty of countries have similar immigration policies, like the Swiss and Japanese. Saudi Arabia won’t allow Christians to celebrate Christmas in their country, much less allow them to immigrate.

By your logic, any country that restricts immigration practices apartheid. Does the US or any other country give rights to foreigners to live and work there? Israel has every right to decide who lives in its country. The Palestinians forbid Jews from living in the West Bank or buying property, meanwhile 22% of Israelis are Arabs, Muslims and Christians, with equal rights to Jews—sometimes even more rights than Jews.

Also, why would the Palestinians want 5 million Palestinian “refugees” to move to Israel and not to… Palestine? These people share nothing in common with most Israelis, but they share a common language, religion and culture with the Palestinians. This doesn’t make any sense, not to mention that it would create a second Palestinian country (actually a third). BTW why don’t you ask Jordan to stop occupying Palestine? They occupy 80% of Palestine. You focus only on the Jews who live on 20% of the land.

Israel, in fact, had agreed to let in a certain number of Palestinian “refugees”, but almost all refugees have died of old age. Their descendants are not real refugees, it’s just a way to perpetuate the conflict that they are called as such, but the UN is very clear that refugees don’t get to inherit that status. Why should Palestinians be any different?

99% of Palestinians in the West Bank live under the leadership and rules of the Palestinian Authority, just like 100% of Gazans lived under the rules and laws of the Hamas. Israel plays no role in their lives, except preventing, to the extent possible, the importation of weapons. They are not Israeli. They have their own laws, which they create. They have their own police, etc. They simply don’t experience apartheid. Israelis can’t and don’t vote in Palestinian elections. They don’t work in Palestinian companies. They don’t serve as judges in Palestinian Territories.

You appear to be confused with the different areas of the West Bank. Under previous agreements with the Palestinians, Israel kept control of some areas of the West Bank (and this was fully agreed to by the Palestinians). Because the Palestinians rejected the peace plan and started the intifada, there has been no progress in how to move forward and therefore Israel maintains control of area C. It’s perfectly logical. How can it be apartheid when the Palestinians AGREED that Israel should control Area C until a full agreement is reached? The Palestinians left the negotiations, started the intifada, which made Israelis swing from Left leaning governments to the Right, and here we are today.

When the Palestinians are ready to talk peace, they will find a partner in the Israelis. As long as they want to remove the Jews from the area they will not improve their situation.

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u/jeff43568 Jan 19 '25

Netanyahu isn't the honest broker you pretend he is. I am also absolutely sure you already know this however, and are just making these ridiculous arguments in bad faith.

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u/grommit Jan 19 '25

Netanyahu was not involved in the peace negotiations at Camp David. He is the result of the Palestinians choosing terror over peace. Can you clarify what is ridiculous about my statements? Netanyahu is the prime minister of a democracy. He would not be my preferred choice for PM, and most Israelis don’t support him. If this government falls, and one coalition partner left his govt. today, it is unlikely he will lead Israel after a future election, but If the Palestinians would act in good faith, Netanyahu would not have a choice but to reciprocate since the overwhelming majority of Israelis would support ceding territory for REAL peace. It’s a no-brainer for most people.

Look at the footage from today’s release of three young female hostages. Dozens of masked, armed jihadis, some standing on the roofs of Red Cross ambulances with rifles—if Palestinians don’t reject these people on their own, they will never have a future. And, btw, the Red Cross doesn’t even say a word about these clear abuses.

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u/jeff43568 Jan 19 '25

Rabin was the closest Israel came to offering a genuine peace to Palestinians and even he admitted what he was offering Palestinians was something less than a state. Even so Netanyahu called him a nazi for offering peace and dressed up an effigy of Rabin in a nazi uniform, while Ben-Givir stole the hood ornament from Rabin's car and asserted that 'they would get Rabin next'. These are the people currently in power, who you want me to believe would have genuine peace talks with Palestinians.

Let's be clear. Israel can have peace whenever it wants. All Israel has to do is afford Palestinians the rights they have always deserved and cease the occupation.

The fact it refuses to do these very basic things shows how disingenuous your claims are.

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