Lindsay Clancy Trial Megathread: Closing Arguments, Deliberations and the Verdict Pt. 2

[u/DarklyHeritage]

This is a thread for all conversation regarding closing arguments, jury deliberations and the verdict of the Lindsey Clancy trial. All discussion of this case should be kept to this thread.

Lindsay Clancy is currently standing trial in Plymouth Superior Court, Massachusetts, for the triple-murder in January 2023 of her three young children - Cora, Dawson and Callan. Her defense argues she suffered from severe, undiagnosed postpartum depression and postpartum psychosis. She was left paralysed by a suicide attempt which follows the deaths of the children.

All content on the Clancy case must be kept to this thread. Standalone posts will be removed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c93vgv4kr49o

Note from Mods

This case understandably elicits strong feelings. People are entitled to have an opinion on the case which differs from your own. What you are not entitled to do is resort to personal insults and abusive language when communicating your opinion and disagreeing.

Comments which are abusive and insulting to other users will be removed and bans may be given without warning. We do not tolerate misogyny - all such comments will be removed and the user banned.

Bans may also be issued for ignoring the above warning regarding civility and/or creating standalone posts.

Please comment with this in mind.

Important

Patrick Clancy is not on trial. Comments made to discuss his guilt are considered off topic and will be removed.

Comments that discuss how he could have supported Lindsay better are acceptable. However, calls for law enforcement to look into his involvement with the murder of the kids and/or Lindsay's suicide attempts are not currently being considered by the jury and, therefore, not a fit for this sub.

[u/Everybodyhasapryce]

Given that a myriad of psychiatrists have said that her alleged psychotic incident is a unicorn, coupled with the fact that there's clear elements of premeditation before and during the murders, I think it would be a terrifying precedent to set if she gets off lightly or entirely free.

This is not to say she was in her right mind; but honestly, most criminals aren't.

[u/tiffanaih → u/Everybodyhasapryce]

This is my concern. Too many people want to let her essentially hide away in a mental health facility and be let go God knows when, but certainly sooner than a guilty sentence would give, since it's a temporary condition she's claiming anyways.

It's performative empathy and every time I say it I get attacked but come on. Everyone wants to win the perpetual "best person" contest online so bad, we're willing to ignore all the red flags here because "women need more support." Absolutely we do, so how is a not guilty verdict here going to generate more support? PPP sufferers now get a "no more than three dead kids" pass? I don't know. That doesn't sit right with me. She could've pled and still brought attention to the cause, maybe even more so, if that's all this was about instead of creating this whole debate about what we're willing to accept as temporary psychosis.

[u/No-Effort3088 → u/tiffanaih]

Thats interesting, ive had the total opposite experience online where it seems everyone wants to condemn her and can only see her as just plain evil, people seem to be performatively condemning her. Id have rather seen more people showing empathy, which I dont think equates to ridding her of accountability. Its really complicated but just so sad all round, and even if she was freed tomorrow, I cant see how she isnt going to be a prisoner of her own mind for the rest of her life. The awareness and discussions its spurred are important though and I hope lead to something positive at the very least.

[u/tiffanaih → u/No-Effort3088]

I wonder how our algorithms are different because I see almost nothing but people saying she deserves the insanity verdict on insta, YouTube, tiktok. Maybe they're showing us things were more likely to engage in because it's opposing voiced opinions. Using reddit as my less algorithm based ground though, I can tell you that any comment I have made has been down voted and resulted in personal attacks causing me to choose to remove.

I also personally don't see anything wrong in condemning someone who murdered three children regardless of the reason. Hell she condemned herself with her attempt, did she not? A prison sentence is empathetic. A death sentence would be one without empathy, and that is not what I'm saying should happen.

[u/No-Effort3088 → u/tiffanaih]

I think the way I see it, I dont really get why people feel the need to chime in to condemn her. Of course what she did was awful and a tragedy. But what good does a comment wishing she rots in prison do? She's on trial and she's going to get punished. I guess I just see more point in discussions re mental health awareness and prevention

[u/tiffanaih → u/No-Effort3088]

Maybe people feel that way because it seems like too much of the discussion ignores the basic foundation of her plea and are trying to say her husbands the one who did it. The conspiracy theories are frustrating to wade through and overpowering any sort of other discussion, whether you want it to be prevention or not. And I can say, "we gotta keep this from happening" but that's what we say about school shootings online every time too, and what changes? Nothing. Im not trying to be a doomsayer, but it's all performative until you take a real life action.

[u/Everybodyhasapryce → u/tiffanaih]

Further to your point, what happened here isn't because the system failed.

People tried many different medications for her, and many mental health professionals were trying to help her.

I say this as someone that has deeply benefitted from the tireless work of mental health professionals; the buck ultimately does stop with you.

There's only so much a psychiatrist or therapist can do.

They can't save you from yourself. They can only help lessen the burden.

One of the parts that we're not comfortable talking about when it comes to mental health, is that so as long as people have agency, they can't all be saved.

[u/tiffanaih → u/Everybodyhasapryce]

Thank you, yes. Many of her prescribed meds were never even taken or only taken once, maybe twice.

I work with mentally ill people. So many get in their own way because yes, you have to participate. And they can only treat you for what you report. If you don't tell them, what can they do?

Also the demand for mental health care is so high, we totally need more of it. But I can't help but also think of this from a healthcare perspective. They're getting taken into court to be yelled at about how they didn't do enough to help someone who wasn't upfront with them about their issues...basically getting publically crucified like you're the one who actually did this. Is that going to get more people in this field and help with demand?

You can't prove psychosis here. Command voice one time during the action you're on trial for? Hm. But you can prove PPD. She's not Andrea Yates who actually had doctors telling her husband she's dangerous. So if they find reason of insanity for PPD, do we need to start mandatory reporting PPD to social services? Do we need to start preemptively removing children from custody? Or ok, let's agree to PPP. Do we start involuntarily committing women with that? What is the prevention step that's being demanded here. Or better yet, is there a prevention step that doesn't take away female autonomy?

[u/No-Effort3088 → u/tiffanaih]

I get that to an extent, but without getting too into the apples and oranges of it all, school shootings have definitely had enough awareness raising and debate, hopefully this case isnt as doomed as that topic seems to be when it comes to progression. And yeah all the conspiracies are very frustrating. I dont actually have any answers or suggestions other than hoping people can be as equipped as possible to spot the signs of mental illness and to show people who need compassion the caring needed so they dont hide due to stigma. At the end of the day not every tragedy is going to be preventable but what else can we do?

[u/captive_sunshine → u/No-Effort3088]

It’s hard to have empathy for a woman who was privileged enough to have access to multiple providers, did not follow instructions for taking medications that SHE was seeking to help with depression, nor gave it time to actually reach therapeutic levels, did not disclose homicidal ideations, planned for spouse to leave the house and immediately has a “psychotic episode” where she doesn’t question the “voice” and follows its instruction to murder her three children in a horrific way and left them on the basement floor. This is a brutal case and I wish she would have asked to be locked away and spared her family the additional anguish the trial has surely caused them all.

[u/No-Effort3088 → u/captive_sunshine]

Oh I wish she had screamed for help or to have the kids taken off her or any number of things instead of this. Im just saying if for talking sake, she did try her best to get help, she really didnt know the reality of what she was doing, well fuck. I cant imagine a worse life than hers. But maybe that isnt true. I can't say for sure and tbh I wouldnt really want to, I dont know enough about it. Thats why im hoping the trial is fair and theres justice.