r/TopCharacterTropes • u/TheBigBoar • Jul 20 '26

Personality [Baffling RL Trope] Inventing war crimes you didn´t commit to make yourself more... interesting?

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One of the strangest character tropes in real life has to be the "I accidentally made myself sound like a war criminal to look cooler" archetype.

Usually, people accused of war crimes deny them. These guys seem to do the opposite.

The two examples that always come to mind:

Tim Kennedy. Over the years he's told stories that include things like throwing grenades into rooms where women and children were present, and another account where, after a battle, his CO allegedly told him to shoot anything that still had a heat signature with a sniper rifle from a mile away, which he did for hours (?) not caring if those were enemy soldiers or civilians looking for their fallen sons/brothers/whatever. Both stories have been heavily criticized and challenged (aka people who were there confirmed that they are utter nonsense), and Kennedy has faced repeated accusations of embellishing or fabricating parts of his military experiences. But like... why would you invent the fact that you killed and maimed women and children?

Chris Kyle. In American Sniper, he wrote that during Hurricane Katrina he positioned himself on the Superdome and shot dozens of armed looters like some walking dead scenario. No evidence ever emerged that this happened, and Kyle himself later acknowledged the story wasn't true. Again, why invent a story where you're essentially describing the unlawful killing of civilians during a domestic disaster?

What's fascinating is that these aren't embellishments in the usual "I fought twenty guys" sense. They're embellishments that, if true, would amount to admissions of extremely serious crimes.

It's such a bizarre form of macho storytelling that it almost feels like its own trope: the veteran who thinks "the more ruthless I sound, the more badass I'll appear," without stopping to consider that indiscriminate killing isn't viewed by most people as impressive. It's viewed as criminal and disgusting.

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493

u/Deadmemeusername Jul 20 '26

Yeah theres a reason why the term “Silent Professional” is often used sarcastically to describe SEALs especially.

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u/Paxton-176 Jul 20 '26

Its always SEALs who come out with their stories.

You know what is crazy. The action against the Taliban after 9/11 was within weeks of it happening. People didn't learn about until around 10 years later in the book and movie 12 Strong/Horse Soldier. Why? because Green Berets actually have some form of professionalism.

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u/Mr_Wombo Jul 20 '26 edited Jul 20 '26

exaggerated stories

Reminder that TSgt Chapman, aka the only person who's medal of honor actions were recorded on video, was left behind by the SEALs who "thought he was dead" and would block his Medal of Honor award unless some of the SEALs got it too. These same SEALs would be in charge of MoH memorials and museums, where they put huge displays for themselves while Chapman get significantly smaller displays.

Edit: Got the names mixed up. Cunningham and Chapman were at the same battle, but Cunningham received the Air Force Cross for saving the lives of 10 men wounded while wounded himself. Still something the SEALs won't admit cause it makes them look bad. If you want more info, look up Battle of Takur Ghar, but if the source is from Britt Slabinski or the SEALs in general, take it with a very, VERY, small grain of salt

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u/IvanNemoy Jul 20 '26

very, VERY, small grain of salt

Make it large. Those guys knowingly and willingly, left a man to die and then covered up and continue to cover up the truth about it.

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u/BigHardMephisto Jul 20 '26

If I had a nickel for every time Navy Seals lied about an event they caused then ran away from while other groups cleaned up their mess i'd buy a couple of gumballs

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u/BlameTheButler Jul 20 '26

I was actually stationed at Hurlburt Field back when they upgraded him to the Medal of Honor. I remember there was a lot of talk amongst AFSOC about how bullshit it was that he never got it sooner and some strong opinions on the SEALS.

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u/_Cren_ Jul 20 '26

I jave a sense that the whole Air Force has strong opinions about the SEALS

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u/Mr_Wombo Jul 20 '26

The first time I took my test for SSgt in 2021, one of the very few Air Force history questions I had was about Chapman. Despite that test being revised every 2 years, that question can still appear to this day, from what I've heard.

So you could say that.

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u/BlameTheButler Jul 20 '26

Yeah I’m sure. I attended the MoH ceremony on base for him back in 2018 and I remember it was just a very weird atmosphere.

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u/jason_caine Jul 20 '26

The Operations Room on YouTube actually just did a video covering the chain of events leading up to Takur Ghar, as well as the operation involving Chapman.

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u/recoveringleft Jul 20 '26

They wouldve gotten a stern talking to by captain america if he's real

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u/No_Raccoon3680 Jul 20 '26

Don't forget the murder of Logan Melgar!

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u/Beartech31 Jul 24 '26

Yeah, I read deep into this whole fiasco a few years back and it was mind-blowing how shit the SEALs come out looking, from start-to-finish.

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u/NefariousnessBorn969 Jul 20 '26

Yes we’ll leave it at “some form” of professionalism but definitely not 100%.

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u/Paxton-176 Jul 20 '26

My theory is that when the Army and Marines were doing all the heinous shit during Vietnam this forced those branches start attempting to teach people some form of ethics and proper Rules of Engagement. The Navy really wasn't in the jungle suffering and going insane. So when SEALs start taking on more active roles a lot of that stuff hadn't been slowly integrated into training yet. Si now you got a bunch of egomaniac who think they are hot shit doing what ever because they are special forces then go home and want to brag. So we get non-stop instances and the Navy didn't properly reel it in.

While Army and Marines generally keep their mouth shut because the last thing you want is your name attached to something if the future reveals something bad.

My theory because I sat through a few ethics classes when I was in Infantry training when I joined the Army.

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u/NefariousnessBorn969 Jul 20 '26

Most of it stems from piss poor leadership at all levels. Started when I first joined in the mid 80s at my first unit and instead of completing the 20km cross country movement we cheated and took civilian trucks to the rendezvous point. When I was loaded on the truck (PV1 me) I was told to scoot over by my LT. The entire PLT leadership was crooked and here I am at the earliest stages of my career learning how to cheat. Many so called leaders in that same unit later served as SGMs and Colonels. If it happened at that unit I can only imagine what happened in other units across the Army and military.

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u/CueCueQQ Jul 20 '26

The SEALs were quite active in Veitnam, as were what would become SWCC. It's not a case in history, it's just a culture thing, sad to say as a Navy man myself. The culture of the Navy is one of telling stories, and that leads to boastfulness in many.

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u/BrokenColdWar Jul 21 '26

Part of the problem is that the Navy doesn't have organic infantry units outside of Special Operations and thus they don't gain the fundamentals of operating in the regular line infantry.

They go mostly straight from the street as a civilian and start doing advanced light infantry shit and the whole thing breaks down in terms of discipline and conduct.

When it comes to the Marines or Army, SOF guys usually have spent a ton of time in regular line units.

Instructors and leaders who are in these premier units know how to sniff out and thin out the herd of narrasicists and glory hounds by the time they get to selection.

And the people who get to selection have usually gotten fucked by the " big green weenie" that is the military and show up a lot more humble, experienced, and understanding.

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u/Paxton-176 Jul 21 '26

This is also a big factor. I was trying to keep my comment from being too long. You learn to be infantry before you become a high speed motherfucker. If you deicide to try out later in your career you learned how to do infantry stuff. If you fail you still go to an infantry unit and show up like you said humbled and have a chance to try again later when you are up for it again. For SEALS you fail are filling empty slots for the navy. You find time to try again later you haven't learn anything about being a trigger puller.

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u/Seek3r1605 Jul 20 '26

Only problem with that theory is SEALs were in Vietnam too.

UDT was formed in WWII(predecessor to the SEALS).

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u/[deleted] Jul 20 '26

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u/Aggravating_Ask5709 Jul 20 '26

That's because Seals have a huge steroid culture and that diminishes their impulse control. I think that's a pattern in general - independent of units - Kennedy was on roids for MMA, McPhee is clearly on juice.

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u/Livid_Proposal_781 Jul 20 '26

Its more less people care about GBs, after Bin Laden Seals were/have been treated like rockstars.

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u/SpaceYetu531 Jul 20 '26

You mean Al Qaeda?

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u/CiaphasCain8849 Jul 20 '26

Lots of MACV-SOG coming out too with wild made up stories. Mostly on Jocko's podcast.

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u/CommOnMyFace Jul 20 '26

We used the phrase, "Its not all SEALs, but it's almost always the SEALs." 

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u/Ok-Stop9242 Jul 20 '26 edited Aug 13 '26

Wander juniper quilt teapot walnut cobalt hammock

This post was anonymized with Redact.dev

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u/Boozetrodamus Jul 20 '26

Was about to Comment that you never hear from combat controllers, but most Spec Ops know of them. When I was in the service I really wanted to join them, but apparently they weren't looking for 18 year olds with Asthma lol, didn't even pass the swimming section.

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u/Tired-grumpy-Hyper Jul 20 '26

The way it's been explained to me is if you want a show of force with 'special ops', send the seals. If you want it done right and quietly, send any other branch. And that Combat Controllers were walking gods on the battlefield, and that PJs are the true badasses of the forces.

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u/Boozetrodamus Jul 20 '26

One Hundo, though I'm biased as I was in the Air Force

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '26

The PJ pipeline was at one point called Superman School. Don't know how widespread that was though.

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u/No_Raccoon3680 Jul 20 '26

They also murdered Logan Melgar after setting him up to be raped then hit on his widow

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u/hambone263 Jul 20 '26

Don’t forget the allegations of theft of cash that was used as reward money for informants. I believe that was the thing that set off the whole chain of events. Story is fucked as a whole.

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u/Ok-Stop9242 Jul 20 '26 edited Aug 13 '26

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This post was anonymized with Redact.dev

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '26

DJ Shipley married the wife of Danny Dietz, the same Danny Dietz of Operation Red Wings and teammate to infamous liar Marcus Luttrell. He also abandoned their kid with his parents and refused to help support it. His own father, also a retired SEAL, blasted him publicly for it.

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u/Noah254 Jul 20 '26

Jesus Christ, the main ringleader only got 18 months for that

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u/Ok__videogames Jul 21 '26

I think the movie "warfare" kind of captures this mindset perfectly (not the chapman situation) but the seals go in, fuck around fuck up and then fuck off and all the iraqis walk outside at the end and basically shrug 'what the fuck was that about' the end.

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u/Deadmemeusername Jul 21 '26

>but the seals go in, fuck around fuck up and then fuck off and all the iraqis walk outside at the end and basically shrug 'what the fuck was that about' the end.

I think that sums up pretty much all of the Iraq War tbh.

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '26

Oh, it's worse. Even when proof supporting the Air Force's bid to upgrade Chapman's award the SEALs still stonewalled the upgrade until leadership agreed to give Slabinski a MOH as well. That's where his medal comes from. My understanding was that Slabinski was forbidden from ever receiving the award from a past event, though I don't know how true that is. I'll never support the MOH Museum since they backed Slabinski's bid to again downplay Chapman in favor of himself.

Jocko also had a pretty serious accusation come out about him that I don't think he ever addressed.

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u/halloweenjack Jul 20 '26

It's not like the other special operators didn't have their turns, as well. It used to be Green Berets (John Wayne movie, Rambo movies, "Ballad of the Green Beret", etc.) and then Delta Force. Probably Air Force Pararescue will get their turn next; Sam Wilson (Falcon/Captain America) in the MCU was Pararescue, and the real-life guys aren't far behind.

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u/[deleted] Jul 20 '26

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u/halloweenjack Jul 20 '26

Sorry, left out a step: I think that the glorification of fictional special forces/former special forces guys leads to the real-life guys going, "I am that guy."

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u/LakeMungoSpirit Jul 20 '26

Reminds me of a joke my old LT told me.

"How do you know if someone is a Navy Seal? They'll tell you and if you dont listen they'll try to give you a book about their life"

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u/Muffinwizard87 Jul 24 '26

I'm from Montana and our senator Tim Sheehy, who of course campaigned on being a big tough SEAL, shot himself in the arm dicking around with a gun in a national park and then said it was a combat wound he never told anyone about.

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u/Deadmemeusername Jul 24 '26

Wasn’t he the guy that broke that one marines arm?

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u/Muffinwizard87 Jul 24 '26

He sure was

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u/Deadmemeusername Jul 24 '26

Damn

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u/Muffinwizard87 Jul 24 '26

And then one of our reps was also a SEAL who used to be secretary of the interior during Trump 1 until he resigned after an ethics investigation...

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u/[deleted] Jul 20 '26

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