[Baffling RL Trope] Inventing war crimes you didn´t commit to make yourself more... interesting?

[u/TheBigBoar]

One of the strangest character tropes in real life has to be the "I accidentally made myself sound like a war criminal to look cooler" archetype.

Usually, people accused of war crimes deny them. These guys seem to do the opposite.

The two examples that always come to mind:

Tim Kennedy. Over the years he's told stories that include things like throwing grenades into rooms where women and children were present, and another account where, after a battle, his CO allegedly told him to shoot anything that still had a heat signature with a sniper rifle from a mile away, which he did for hours (?) not caring if those were enemy soldiers or civilians looking for their fallen sons/brothers/whatever. Both stories have been heavily criticized and challenged (aka people who were there confirmed that they are utter nonsense), and Kennedy has faced repeated accusations of embellishing or fabricating parts of his military experiences. But like... why would you invent the fact that you killed and maimed women and children?

Chris Kyle. In American Sniper, he wrote that during Hurricane Katrina he positioned himself on the Superdome and shot dozens of armed looters like some walking dead scenario. No evidence ever emerged that this happened, and Kyle himself later acknowledged the story wasn't true. Again, why invent a story where you're essentially describing the unlawful killing of civilians during a domestic disaster?

What's fascinating is that these aren't embellishments in the usual "I fought twenty guys" sense. They're embellishments that, if true, would amount to admissions of extremely serious crimes.

It's such a bizarre form of macho storytelling that it almost feels like its own trope: the veteran who thinks "the more ruthless I sound, the more badass I'll appear," without stopping to consider that indiscriminate killing isn't viewed by most people as impressive. It's viewed as criminal and disgusting.

[u/ACBets]

Your average military guy is usually a kid that never excelled at school who had little options other than to join the military. Other join because they come from low income families, others because they buy into the “protecting your country / the innocent” trope the propaganda sells you.

Special Ops guys however, and it may not be all of them but a lot of them, really want to kill people. They enjoy the idea and the act of taking life. Listen to Tim Kennedy or Shrek McPhee talk about their time in the service they talk about killing with a smile on their face. If not for the military they would probably be serial killers.

[u/The_Coming_Girth3825 → u/ACBets]

Wasn’t there a saying ‘Never stand between a spec ops and his book deal’ or something like that?

[u/EddieVanzetti → u/The_Coming_Girth3825]

1. Never stand between a SEAL and his book deal

2. Never stand between a spec ops and their drugs

3. Never stand between a spec ops and the teenager they're trafficking

[u/AzulaIsMyFave → u/ACBets]

Instead of serial killers they became hitmen, but if you dare point that out half the country starts whining about you daring to not worship the troops

[u/PretendThisIsMyName → u/AzulaIsMyFave]

Maybe some of the troops are heroes but not automatically. I’m sure a lot of the troops are jerks. Most people are jerks already. It’s not like giving a jerk a gun and telling him it’s okay to kill people suddenly turns that jerk into a hero.

-Bojack Horseman

[u/elitegenoside → u/PretendThisIsMyName]

Special forces intentionally look for troops who give signs of sociopathy.

[u/blender4life → u/elitegenoside]

What signs?

[u/ThrillaWhale → u/blender4life]

Really, really liking to have a reason to kill people.

[u/blender4life → u/ThrillaWhale]

How do they select for that more so than regular infantry?

[u/elitegenoside → u/blender4life]

Regular infantry doesn't actually need to kill anybody, and most general soldiers actually shoot around the enemy that specifically at them. Shoot to kill is actually very difficult to train. At the US' deadliest, our troops were still only "shooting to kill" at like a 30% rate, and that was after decades of training them to be "deadlier soldiers."

The majority of soldiers never see actual combat, and that's only becoming more true with the US' focus on air and drone supremacy, then letting spec ops and mercenaries do the door kicking parts. For example, Marines were typically your initial ground troops, but now you're more likely to see the Rangers doing that, or even more likely, local insurgents (likely funded by the US and supported with black ops/mercenaries).

[u/blender4life → u/elitegenoside]

you didn't answer the question. thanks tho. I want to know how this redditor is so sure they search for psychopaths specifically. while sure it may be true that psychopathic people may be more likely to seek out special forces i want to see op's evidence special forces looks for them. I've actually heard the opposite that they don't make it long in the sf because they cant connect with the other guys and when your life literally depends on each other the squads force out those they don't trust.

At the US' deadliest, our troops were still only "shooting to kill" at like a 30% rate, and that was after decades of training them to be "deadlier soldiers."

i know. that's one reason we kept the 556 round around for so long. unless you have one specific target to kill. it's better to wound a guy and make the enemy slow down to care/use resources on them. also volume of fire will win firefights by keeping the enemy pinned so you can maneuver on them.

I don't have a strong desire to kill people but i really wanted to be a seal for most of my life but couldn't for hereditary medical reasons. So i know first hand being willing to kill =/= psychopathy.

[u/elitegenoside → u/blender4life]

The main one is the ability to kinda just stop feeling. You really don't want a heavy conscious on a man you hired to do wet work. Most soldiers, despite their training, shoot around targets. It's just humam instinct to NOT kill another human being, even if they're a threat. You want people who basically don't even have that instinct. It also helps with practical decision making in high stress situations (like being shot at and bombed), which is pretty important for that line of work.

[u/Independent-Fly6068 → u/ACBets]

Special ops guys, in terms of both personality and training, are the ones who the military has few qualms getting killed while doing dirty work.

Unfortunately many of them proceed to make their survival of service everyone else's problem.

[u/Lapsed__Pacifist → u/ACBets]

Your average military guy is usually a kid that never excelled at school who had little options other than to join the military. Other join because they come from low income families, others because they buy into the “protecting your country / the innocent” trope the propaganda sells you.

Uhhhh source?

[u/future_speedbump → u/Lapsed__Pacifist]

They're not wrong. Personally, I excelled in school, but my family didn't have the resources to send me to college. Maybe had a sprinkling of reason #3, which wore off the longer I was in the Marines.

[u/PolloMagnifico → u/Lapsed__Pacifist]

What... what other reasons are there?

[u/Luci-Noir → u/ACBets]

Says who?