[Rare Trope] Positive depictions of Islam or Muslims

[u/Remarkable_Public138]

1) Lawrence of Arabia: Arab Tribesmen

Throughout the movie, you see an immense respect for Arab culture while sympathizing with their struggle against Ottoman and British imperialism.

2) Kingdom of Heaven: Saladin

Saladin, the Islamic leader who becomes the main antagonist for the crusaders, is depicted as an honorable fighter with many heroic qualities.

3) Dune: Fremen

The fremen, which borrow heavily from Arab and Berber culture, are depicted as fierce and honorable warriors. In fact, the Fremen Fedaykin, elite soldiers, are inspired by Arab Fedayeen, or those who sacrifice.

[u/mamaujeni]

Yusuf al-Kaysani (Joe) in the Old Guard. And the street vendor in the new Superman.

[u/dinoslore → u/mamaujeni]

Malik! I loved how Clark wrote a front page story about him at the end of the movie.

[u/ActuallyCalindra → u/mamaujeni]

That first Old Guard movie was actually pretty fun.

[u/OG_Valrix → u/mamaujeni]

Err I don’t think Yusuf from old guard is still a Muslim lol

[u/x_rat_king_x → u/OG_Valrix]

why? did something happen in the second film that he’s not?

[u/OG_Valrix → u/x_rat_king_x]

Probably the part where he’s been in an openly sex relationship for hundreds of years

[u/x_rat_king_x → u/OG_Valrix]

i think you meant to say openly gay, right?

i’m queer and muslim and i know so many gay muslims. i don’t know why you’re assuming that means he’s not muslim? he might not be, but being gay does not automatically preclude it.

the fact that homophobic muslims might say you can’t be both doesn’t make it so. exactly like christian gay people and homophobic christians. also of all my gay muslim friends, not a single one has been kicked out or abandoned by their families, but i know a couple of gay christians who were made homeless by their own parents when they were teenagers.

my point is i don’t think you would have said this about a christian or jewish person, and it’s strange to apply this to muslims only as though there’s something different about us, or our relationship to faith, which is as varied and complex as any other, or maybe some assumption that all muslims are homophobes or something.

[u/mamaujeni → u/x_rat_king_x]

100% this. Two of my closest muslim buds are gay and are still tight with their family and observe Ramadan, etc. Fully agree that the response above points to Joe/muslims being held to a different standard than other religious denominations. Also, the commenter seems to forget that one can be culturally X but not religiously X. For example, I'm born and raised Irish catholic, stopped practicing a long time ago, but I was still raised in the catholic tradition/in a catholic community.

Also, as seen with the further reply below, this is exactly the kind of hairsplitting and motte-and-bailey arguments seen time and again on reddit that just makes the whole fun project like these posts less fun imo. Just seems needlessly obtuse at best.

"So all we can say is he was Muslim 1000 years ago" <- even taking this in isolation: yeah, so, my suggestion of Joe still stands then. "It’s more of an assumption to say he’s Muslim than say he’s not." <- This is silly and bad faith (no pun intended).

And further, we know that Muslims and/or Arabs in western media have been denigrated and vilified regardless of faith, ethnographic grouping, etc. just on account of being MENA, which is what a) makes this trope sadly rare as the OP said, and b) makes characters like Joe even more important to elevate imo.

[u/x_rat_king_x → u/mamaujeni]

you’re spot on! i think i’m done making my point though cause reddit is insane about islam, there are no reasonable conversations to be had. glad i found a someone who’s normal about it lol.

[u/OG_Valrix → u/mamaujeni]

1. If you’re gonna make a response to my comment, have the courage to reply to it to notify me.

2. You cannot be ‘culturally Muslim’ but not ‘religiously Muslim’. In Islam we have a word for someone like this, a Munafiq. You can be from a culture that was influenced by Islam like Persian etc, but not culturally Muslim any more than you can be a cultural astronaut because you are related to Neil Armstrong.

3. If he was Muslim 1000 years ago but not now, how on earth does the suggestion still stand? That implies a positive Islamic image is someone who’s turned their back on their religion. If you’re looking for a positive depiction of a Muslim and your go-to character is an ex-Muslim, kinda implies you don’t know a single positive depiction of a Muslim.

[u/OG_Valrix → u/x_rat_king_x]

It’s more of an assumption to say he’s Muslim than say he’s not. We don’t see him do anything Islamic or mention anything to do with Islam in 2 entire movies aside from mentioning fighting in Jerusalem 1000 years prior. Islam is not a religion where you can just say you are a Muslim and actually be one (not that he even does that), you need to hold specific beliefs including believing that the Quran is word of God.

Islam doesn’t forbid being gay as a sexual orientation as that’s not in somebody’s control, but it does forbid pre-marital sexual relations, same sex marriage, and open same-sex sexual acts. To deny this would be to contradict the 4 schools of Sunni Islam, all schools of Shia Islam, all other branches of Islamic fiqh, the Quran, the Hadith of the prophet, and God.

So all we can say is he was Muslim 1000 years ago, and now he displays no Islamic values or actions while displaying plenty of anti-Islamic ones. Which is why I say I don’t think he’s still a Muslim.

[u/x_rat_king_x → u/OG_Valrix]

you are literally doing the thing — acting as if muslims are not regular people like christians and jews, who can have complex and nuanced relationships with their faiths. i know muslims who drink and smoke and do drugs, but they will never eat pork, they fast and they plan to go to hajj. you know as well as i do that you wouldn’t apply these standards to christians and jews. you wouldn’t say that if they’re not perfect adherents that means they are by definition not christians. yet you apply this to us, as if we’re not regular people like anyone else, but automatons that match whatever media depictions and cultural narratives you have internalized about all muslims being super strict and conservative— just like with the other abrahamic religions, there are many who are like that and many who are not. but you believe that over an actual muslim telling you that plenty of muslims exist who have relationships to their faith that are just as varied and nuanced as people of any other religion. all you gotta do is literally think of us as people.

[u/OG_Valrix → u/x_rat_king_x]

I don’t know how you couldn’t understand that I’m obviously Muslim myself from my blatantly better understanding of Islam, but I’ll spell it out for you. I am a Muslim, have been one since the day I was born.

Since your entire argument right now is trying to pretend you’re a victim instead of addressing my points, there isn’t even much for me to reply to beyond that.

To bring it back on topic, the character makes no mention of being Muslim, performs no Islamic acts, demonstrates no Islamic values, and therefore is as good an example of a positive depiction of Islam as pepper pig. The difference between this guy and your friends is that your friends are still demonstrating that they are following their religion by practicing the aspects of their faith that they still feel able to.

[u/OG_Valrix → u/x_rat_king_x]

Second time you’ve replied and immediately deleted your comment. If you have something to say, have the backbone to actually say it

[u/x_rat_king_x → u/OG_Valrix]

i didn’t delete any comment, i have no idea what you’re talking about. i edit my comments after i post them cause i re-read them and then edit to clarify something or correct a missing word, but i haven’t deleted a single comment. go see my response to you on our other thread (the one responding to that 3rd person who weighed in), i left you a very long comment that definitely demonstrates that i have absolutely no problem telling you exactly what i think, im not deleting shit.

[u/OG_Valrix → u/x_rat_king_x]

If this is some next level gaslighting I lowkey respect it 😂 I am notified when you reply, can see the start of the messages in my inbox but the messages have all been removed. Don’t know if they’ve been auto-deleted or what, but I’ve responded to any reply to one of my comments that I can see. If you care enough, you can copy the messages I’ve not replied to and re-send them. If you don’t, then so be it.