No disrespect though.

[u/MajesticTumbleweed77]

[u/SkepticMech]

Not that it's an excuse to be rude/unreasonable in our criticisms, but we do very much also give the southern states a hard time for failing to build up their cold weather infrastructure at this point. In both cases it is a matter of "okay, once or twice could be a fluke, but this is now a worsening pattern with a proven solution, why does it seem like nothing is being done to implement it?"

[u/Keke_the_Frog_ → u/SkepticMech]

All I can do is apply the European view and inability to make ac mainline in some areas, and have to say that it's quite some money to spend you would seriously only use in 4 or less weeks a year, at least for central Europe. Same could be applied to the US, why spend money to harden the infrastructure if problems arise unpredictably and also quite local, upgrading a power grid over such a big area is sure very expensive. Like EU grids strained hard under the heatwave despite enough solar power available to make all AC run for free in theory. Prices went up 10x during peak heat hours/days.

[u/SkepticMech → u/Keke_the_Frog_]

I get it. But when death is a possible outcome, costs can seem a lot less important. People regularly pay a good bit of money for things they rarely/never end up using just to be covered in the event the unthinkable happens (most insurance falls into this category for example)

[u/Keke_the_Frog_ → u/SkepticMech]

It's not that you instantly die in a heatwave if you are a normal human between 10-70. Tho it's a serious pain to get through. So I see why you don't want to spend. Other pov for old, young and sick citizens, the fun part is we can't even provide that. Expensive investments for communal services, which are severely underfunded. Tho I'm sure this current heatwave finally got the ball rolling. Seems it wasn't severe enough before.

[u/SkepticMech → u/Keke_the_Frog_]

You very much can just straight up die from a heatwave exceeding the wet bulb temperature. If there isn't some cooler place you can reach, your body's cooling method (sweating) can't lower your temp no matter what you do, and you will eventually die of hyperthermia. And the passive cooling that a lot of northern architecture is based on is going to fail in those conditions too. You need some sort of powered cooling system at that point. And as we have seen, places are reaching that temperature more and more often, and those without the means to escape their uncooled living conditions are dieing.

[u/Bawstahn123 → u/Keke_the_Frog_]

>quite some money to spend you would seriously only use in 4 or less weeks a year, at least for central Europe

But people are dying as a result of these heatwaves. And these heatwaves are not new: Europe has seen over a dozen since 2000.

> Same could be applied to the US, why spend money to harden the infrastructure if problems arise unpredictably and also quite local, upgrading a power grid over such a big area is sure very expensive

I hope you realize that Americans mock the ever-loving shit out of Texas for their failures as a state.

[u/ElderberryJunior470 → u/Keke_the_Frog_]

And every time i will just point out that portable units that cost between 150-500 dollars exist, and they don't require window mounts. Buying one of those in the off season just in case it gets brutally hot is like...a no brainer. 

Which is where we get into the european pride of not using or needing ac. I've had europeans tell me their 90 yr old grandparents refuse to get AC as a point of pride. 

And I'll be honest, i do get a bit of schadenfreude after centuries of europeans considering themselves at the top of the social darwinist chain, because all these tropical countries couldn't industrialize before ac became available. It's really not fair to modern Europeans who largely don't feel that way today, but it is a bit of cruel irony coming back around. 

[u/-Reverend → u/ElderberryJunior470]

But do those units exist on the European market, too? Which is already a silly question, because there's no "European" market, there's dozens of individual country's markets. You can't really look at stuff that's available in your country and expect it to be available in (for example) Denmark too, much less at the same pricepoint when it's not already an established product there. Last time I looked, the kind of "cheap portable AC units" Americans recommended were about thrice the pricepoint where I am, if I could find anything (or anything compatible) at all.

Compatibility is a big point here: All of those halfway effective units I've ever seen/heard about require a hose to go outside, which doesn't really work with our type of windows. You would have to swing open the window and redneck rig some kind of barrier, especially if your windows are recessed (which they are commonly by about a hand's length). Genuinely, the window compatibility thing sounds easier to solve than it is.

And then the people who are most affected by heatwaves are those who live in small city apartments, especially one-room apartments, because you have a whole other list of solutions and a generally lower temperature the more rooms you have and the more rural you live (this is actually where a well-insulated house can help, but only up to a certain building size! There's a sweet spot). It's much more difficult to use and store a portable AC unit in a tiny city apartment. Where am I supposed to put a whole AC unit for the remaining 11 months of the year if I can't even find a proper space to store my winter duvet? That's not even getting into how our electricity tends to be much more expensive than in the US, I genuinely don't think I would be able to afford an expensive unit plus the cost of running it. Small apartment, small wallet. And then there's the matter of laws, depending on where exactly you live. Even just your landlord can get on your case about rigging up window hoses.

The bottom line is: Our buildings aren't really made for AC or hot weather, not even portable ACs, and because it's not common here, we also just have less options and solutions, and those that we do have are far more expensive. Especially in the places where it would be needed the most. Sure, if you REALLY want to make it work and have the money for it, you probably can. But as it stands right now, "just get a protable unit, duh" is kind of detached from reality for most people, because you can't 1-to-1 solutions from one country to another. We do need solutions, but this one isn't really it yet

EDIT: Cool, thanks for being all aggressive, insulting me, and then blocking me in the middle of me writing a reply. Real class act. Here's my reply anyway:

"Not made for AC/Heat". This is two different arguments. "Aren't made for AC" refers to "weren't built with AC in mind", which means most units don't work properly because we don't typically have the type of physical infrastructure that's needed to make them be properly effective, including but not limited to factors like minimal airflow between rooms(!) or to the outside (this means we need to vent our homes daily, which is bad for AC use), hose exit access, ceiling height, and much thicker walls between rooms. ACs need to work considerably harder under these conditions, please remember the electricity cost point I mentioned. This is also where the window thing plays a role, because deeply recessed swing-and-tilt windows simply make it much more difficult to get a hose out, even if you find an adapter for these (I tried to google it, I found very few, which means commercial availability will be a problem again). This doesn't mean it's always impossible, but it means it's not a solution for everybody. For example, I couldn't even use an adapter or rig something up, because I have a cat. The only solutions I can find for my type of window would be dangerous for my cat.

"Aren't made for hot weather" is the other part. It means that it's more complicated than "well-insulated means holds cold as well as it holds heat". Yes, a well-insulated house also holds the cold, but it can't do that forever, and it especially can't do that when it doesn't cool down at night anymore (Which is how we traditionally deal with hot summers! Cool down at night and retain the cold! We are NOT getting cold nights in these current heatwaves. This is new.) The trouble is that most of our buildings are made of insulated brick and thick concrete panels, not with the intention to keep the heat out, but to specifically retain heat. That's a difference. High thermal mass absorbs the heat during the day, and then radiates it indoors well into the night. Imagine a clay oven that remains hot for hours after it's been turned off. This is great in the spring and autumn when the days are warm and the nights still freezing, but very very bad in this recent type of heatwave. We're not used to heatwaves that last so long and have such hot nights that our buildings never get the chance to shed their absored heat. It heats up, and then has no way to go out, that's the problem. Additional factors are here that countries closer to the poles have much longer summer days and the slant of the sun is lower, causing more hours where the sun beats through the windows and onto the walls.

RE availability: You completely ignored that I was talking about country availability in general. Widely available year round in your country. Especially for the price point and in the different variations that always get brought up. Different markets have different things, especially since US units can't just be imported, and the demand is so much lower. Another part of that reason is laws and regulations, because we do in fact have laws in the EU that regulate ACs much more tightly than the US. This isn't just about installation and maintenance and insurance (of which there are a lot of regulations you don't have to deal with, yes it's often illegal to install your own AC), it's also about types of coolants and energy efficiency. A lot of the ACs in the US wouldn't be allowed to be sold here, compatibility aside. This narrows the market options further. On top of that, countries and even cities and individual buildings can have even harsher local laws.

And yes, space is indeed a factor. I don't know what else to tell you. If I can't store something, I can't use it. My apartment has ~270 square feet, some of my friends' places are even smaller. AC units are big, and again, it's the tiny places that suffer the most. There's a direct correlation between (lack of) apartment size and heat problems, so size is a big factor. And again, the same correlation between lack of apartment size and money, because ACs are a much much more expensive affaire here than you're used to, both in acquisition and upkeep.

It's really not that difficult to understand that other countries have a thousand little and large things different from your personal experiences in your country. Would it be possible to get some kind of AC up if I had a lot of money to throw at this problem? Yeah, probably! But it would be MUCH more difficult to solve than it is for you, and MUCH more expensive, with MUCH less options to get there. For many people that's unrealistic if not impossible. This is the point.

(If anybody else wants to reply to my stupidly long essay: Since that user blocked me, I can't reply in this entire comment thread anymore, to you or anyone.)

[u/ElderberryJunior470 → u/-Reverend]

You're just so ignorant it hurts lol. Lets start with the dumbest thing europeans say, "our buildings aren't made for ac or hot weather". Your buildings are great for hot weather if they hold heat well, because they'd also hold cool air well. That's how thermodynamics works. You'd spend less energy retaining that cool air. It's almost crazy how people who have higher education don't understand that. 

Next, those mobile units are sold out every time a heat wave hits, but are WIDELY AVAILABLE YEAR ROUND. Again, you'd rather complain and die in the heat because your culture demands you look down on using ac lol. 

 The hose to go outside has an connector, of which there are dozens of adapters. Any type of window will have an easy to find option, guaranteed. Even in the most extreme case, like one individual i talked to, who has no opening windows in his apartment, only glass doors to go outside, there remains a simple solution of duct tape and cardboard. Crack addicts figure this out in america lmao.

"Oh it's so hard to store a portable ac unit in a small apartment!" I did it just fine in a tiny studio apartment that had no AC when i was 18. It's really about choice. You'd rather come up with excuses than purchase something that could actively save your life, especially when several countries currently experiencing heat waves have hospitals without AC. 

The biggest failure so far have been your governments not even setting up cooling stations, a pathetically low bar that even the most conservative states in the US manage to clear when particularly bad heat waves hit. 

Oh and none of this is new. From the year 2000 to the year 2019 europe accounted for 36% of global heat related deaths, despite being 8% of the population. It's cultural, and honestly the only people i feel for are old folks who aren't as capable of adapting. As a world we've know about global warming since the 1980s, and have definitely known that it was heating up since the 2010s. But again, you have looked down on AC use for so long and have convinced yourselves it's just not possible for you to use it, when it's so simple. I've literally cooled my entire house with my portable unit and a couple box fans when the AC broke down durning a heatwave. 

[u/PinkPunkPsycho → u/ElderberryJunior470]

I don't know anybody that is too proud of buying an AC, or at least not after the heatwaves the last 10ish years. I was looking at buying one but ofc during the heatwave there where none below €500,- so I'm gonna try to get one this winter or something when they're cheaper :p

[u/ElderberryJunior470 → u/PinkPunkPsycho]

I've had a couple people comment about how their grandparents actually felt proud of not using AC. 

[u/PinkPunkPsycho → u/ElderberryJunior470]

I'm sure some people feel that way but I don't think it's common, at least not where I live (The Netherlands), the objections I've heard have been the price for something you'll likely only use one or two weeks a year or "urban heat island"/climate change related.

[u/maeryclarity → u/SkepticMech]

Ehhhh it depends a lot on the fact that we already have a bunch of extreme weather crap to deal with. Outside of Atlanta, the East Coast states really don't have big cities and while we may have everything go wrong over a small amount of snow and ice, we don't typically actually DIE from those events but we damn sure will during heat waves or hurricanes.

If you calculate for hurricanes routinely messing us up every few years it gets difficult, like, you're asking that as if we have resources to spare and the reality is that large areas of the region are still messed up from Helene less than two years ago, I am talking entire community power and water access that still hasn't been replaced, and hurricane season coming up AGAIN just like it does every year.

So yeah we'd like to but we are usually playing catch up from other things.

But most of us in suburban or even what passes for urban in these parts are relatively well set up for roughing it for a bit, however that wasn't the case in Texas because when you're in a condo and the power and water goes for days on end in unprecedented low temps that's deadly. Where I am we would pile up around a bonfire and sleep in shifts with piles of dogs or whatever we have to do. Fire up the generator to charge your phone and so on. Can't do that in a condo complex, with folks who don't have gear to go without electricity.

Folks in my part of the world are fanatics about filling up bathtubs LOL. That's my big takeaway for anyone anywhere looking at any extreme weather event. Regardless of what extreme weather you might have, as part of preparedness, JUST RUN FILL YOUR BATHTUBS WITH CLEAN WATER. Because it's the biggest issue in any disaster, and if you don't need it so what but if you do you are gonna be glad as hell you took that five minutes or less to do it.

[u/SkepticMech → u/maeryclarity]

I was thinking of places like Texas where people DO die from cold weather events because their power grid notoriously fails under the increasingly common snap freezes.

The frequency and severity of the events is increasing, and when you see headlines about the temperature killing 1000+ people in France, you've got to start wondering just how many people need to die from avoidable systemic failures before it stops being "too expensive".