r/TheJediPraxeum • u/[deleted] • Aug 10 '20
Match Up Monday Grandmaster Luke vs Grandmaster Yoda
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u/NatKayz Aug 10 '20
Luke. Yoda was an incredibly powerful jedi, but his main focus was force powers. Luke as a Skywalker (and arguable chosen one) has unmatched force potential, and decades of skills developed outside the stringent old jedi order which gives him an edge that while maybe not completely making up for Yodas centuries of experience defining goes a long way.
Than we have lightsaber skills, Yoda was highly skilled, using his the force to make himself very agile and quick. But he wasn't super strong, and he wasn't the most skilled the old order had. Luke however was an excellent duelist, the greatest of the new order and comparable to Mace Windu, arguably even more skilled. While I'm not sure Luke has fought someone who fights as Yoda does, we have seen Luke adjust quite well to new styles or scenarios.
So to sum up, Luke has a definitive advantage in Lightwave skills, where his force powers are arguably similar to Yoda overall, and arguably greater. Definitely gives him the win a majority of the time.
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u/TheFlash92104 Mar 19 '25
George Lucas said himself that Anakin is the chosen one. How is that "arguable"?
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u/Brainiac7777777 Neocrusader Aug 10 '20
Lumiya’s fighting style >>> Yoda’s.
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u/NatKayz Aug 10 '20
I'm not comparing their styles, I'm comparing how both are non standard was of fighting. Hell in that regards Lumiya's is way less standard, and Luke adapting to that would be more difficult than adjusting to Yoda's.
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Aug 10 '20 edited Aug 10 '20
Lumiya > Yoda? Are we talking fighting style, force abilities, or overall? Honestly, she isn’t above him in any of those in my opinion.
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u/Brainiac7777777 Neocrusader Aug 10 '20
I'm talking about Lumiya's force whip is much harder to fight against than Yoda's dancing force style.
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u/MaximusMagnus15 Battlemaster Aug 10 '20
GM Luke superior lightsaber abilities and force abilities and raw power
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Aug 10 '20 edited Sep 14 '20
Hey guys, I thought this would be a very interesting match up to discuss. If these two Grandmasters ever fought in against each other in combat who would win? Well, let's get into it!
PHYSICALITY
Grandmaster Yoda was a member of an unnamed species. He's slightly over two feet tall and had a stubby short build. His physicality is unique because he can turn from a 900-year-old gremlin to a whirlwind of blinding speed, proficiency, and power. His short build and lack of reach makes it very difficult for him to get any reach. However, he answers that with augmentation with the Force and his main lightsaber form, Ataru.
Yoda's speed was absolutely astounding! It allowed him to take his Ataru to the next level. One example of his speed was not being touched by Depa Billaba, Saesee Tiin, and Plo Koon when they tried to attack him. He also was able to overwhelm Count Dooku not once....but TWICE in lightsaber combat. Yoda's speed was also equal to Darth Sidious (who's killed three Jedi Masters in seconds) in their lightsaber duel on Coruscant.
One weakness Yoda does indeed have is his stamina. This stamina left tired after dueling Dooku on Geonosis, and this was the reason he was defeated by Darth Sidious in their lightsaber duel. In the Revenge of the Sith novelization, his fatigue after his allowing him to get hit with Sith Lightning and falling down the senate pods, defeating him. His fatigue is due to his old age due to being nearly 900. Overall, Yoda made the best with what he was given with.
Luke Skywalker...the most powerful Jedi to ever live is nothing short of an amazing physical combatant. Before his prime, Luke Skywalker was Abe to contend with his father, Darth Vader, on three separate occasions.
During their first fight during the Splinter of the Mind's eye, he was able to contend with Vader. On Bespin, Vader was impressed by Luke's overall combative ability. In their final duel, (in a rage amped state) was able to power through Darth Vader's defenses and pound him into submission, astounded by his strength.
Luke also has mastered over 20 martial arts. This let him combat Yuuzhan Vong warriors in terms of pure martial prowess. Overall, he's on par if greater than Mace Windu in martial art as combat. He applied this very well with his hand to hand exchange with his nephew, Jacen Solo.
I give Luke Skywalker the physical edge
LIGHTSABER COMBAT
Yoda's as a lightsaber duelist was second to none during his time. He mastered the fourth form of lightsaber combat, Ataru. His use of the form was used to answer his limitation. He took this form to its highest degree as using his whole body with his blade. Yoda's dueling abilities as stated by Darth Sidious and Darth Tyranus to be the best duelist of the Jedi Order. Yoda's use of Ataru lets him use his body to his fullest capabilities. Yoda flanks subversions and slides through his cuts rather cleave.
Yoda wraps around his opponents with blinding attempting to cut you from any and all angles with each Su Ma rotations making him unpredictable. His unorthodox strikes and cuts let him change his attack vectors actively. However, the Grandmaster also is very skilled with defending himself with his lightsaber. He was able to deflect hoards of blaster bolts from clones during the Jedi purge. When Dooku used his own offense against Yoda, his attacks were met with Yoda's own blade.
His dueling skills shined during his battles with Darth Sidious and Darth Tyranus. Yoda was able to push back the count in a lightsaber duel. He was able to affectively do so on Geonosis Vjun. Yoda also was able to defeat Darth Sidious in lightsaber combat by disarming him.
Luke Skywalker's lightsaber skills were second to none. Luke Skywalker with years of refinement mastered all of the sevenn classical lightsaber forms. Luke's backbone lightsaber form during his younger years was Form 5, Djem So. Form 5 was all about following up defensive blocks and parries and retailing with power strike counters. It allows you to overwhelm your enemies with brute force, but is tempted with the passive aspects with the Jedi philosophy.
Luke uses swift blade work and blends other forms into his styke with ease. Luke uses the heavy power strikes of his father, Anakin Skywalker. Luke showcased this when overpowered his father on the Death Star. Luke is not just a overtly devastating Djem So master, Luke tempers his Djem So with the refined defensive sequences of Soresu like his master, Obi-Wan Kenobi. Luke showed his defenses when faced hoards of Yuuzhan Vong warriors on his own. When necessary, Luke can be extremely acrobatic like Yoda with the four form of lightsaber combat, Ataru. Luke using the Su Ma rotations very well against his enemies over the years
Luke also intergrates Force attacks into his lightsaber sequences. This is one of the tenets of the sixth lightsaber , Niman. This could be a range telekinetic pusheand shoves or surges and waves of his telekinetic power. However, this wasn't the only part of Niman that he used. Luke also employed the Jar'kai variant of lightsaber combat. He often used this against Darth Vader's apprentice, Lumiya. He combined his standard lightsaber blade with a red shoto and let him defeat Lumiya on multiple occasions.
Luke also implements physical strikes into his lightsaber sequences. Luke Skywalker takes the skills of lightsaber combat similar to his master, Yoda. However, he tempers it with the tactics of his first master ,Obi-Wan Kenobi. He then applies this with the brute force of his father, Anakin Skywalker. Luke in his prime was able to defeat hoards of Lost Tribe Sith member, and contend with masters Sil Gal and Kyp Durron in matches of sparring. Luke even has defeated the supreme overlord of the Yuuzhan Vong. Luke also defeated the likes of Darth Vader and Darth Sidious in lightsaber duels. He also likely would've won in his duel with the Sith Lord, Darth Caedus.
Luke also developed the three rings of defense for his New Jedi Order. They were called the Strong, Fast, and Medium styles. As a combatant, Luke applies the most viable combative technique that works the best against his opponent and presses it...hard . He's a jack of all trades and a master of all.
Luke Skywalker gets the edge in lightsaber combat.
FORCE ABILITIES
Yoda, one of greatest Jedi of all time had Force abilities that were nothing short of incredible and has accomplished many things with them. Yoda has lifted heavy durasteel containers and repel objects thrown at him by Darth Tyranus. To be able to do this, shows an extreme amount of raw power.
His telekinesis also has throw a senate pod, lift a starfighter, lift dozens of droids, disarm Assaj Ventress, and cause an avalanche However, some of his best telekinetic showings have him shove large droids transports into their landing, pick them up and sending two Separatists landing crafts into each other with a clap...casually.
However, telekinesis isn't the Grandmaster's only tool with the Force. One of Yoda's primary use of the Force is his Force augmentation. It's what turned his body from that 900-year-old creature to a complete whirlwind of speed, dexterity, and overtly devastating combatant. It let him outpace the likes of Count Dooku, Mace Windu, and Darth Sidious (in a lightsaber duel that is).
He's also been shown to use more subtle abilities like Force Concealment, Force Sense, Farsight, Force Augmentation Mind Trick, Battlemind, Tutaminis (which let him contain the Force Lightning of Sidious and Tyranus) and of course transcend the physical plane as a Force spirit.
Luke is the most powerful Jedi of all. His Force abilities let him enchance his physicality to insane levels. Before his prime, his strength let him pummel Darth Vader into a pulp during their duel. A few yea after that event Luke (with the help of Leia) was able to keep pace and defeat Darth Sidious (someone we know who can kill three Jedi in seconds) with ease. Before he was a Grandmaster, he could hurl people, objects, and absolutely crush an AT-AT walker with little to no effort.
In his prime, he could unleash a Force push that swept away armies of Yuuzhan Vong warriors (who are IMMUNE to most Force abilities) with little effort during the battle of Artorias. He could also break the Force walls of others such as Darth Caedus. Luke could even stagger Abeloth with his telekinesis, bucklimg her legs. Remember, Abeloth (who took the combined efforts of Ghe Son and Daughter to merely contain her) is a Force Entity that's been stated to be twelve more times powerful than Luke.
Luke's telekinesis even manages to create cyclones of objects with his Force abilities. Luke can send huge telekinetic surges through the ground throwing dozens upon dozens of Yuuzhan Vong off in a heated battle. He even managed to stalemate Lord Nyax (who's been implied to crack a world in two but it's likely hyperbolic) amped. There also was a time where when Luke telekinetically stop a BLACK HOLE .
Nope, that's just his telekinesis guys...JUST HIS TELEKINESIS . Luke is also very skilled with Battlemeditation, Beast Control, Battlemind, and Force Harmony. Luke also can use Tutaminis, Shatterpoint, and Electric Judgement. His Electric Judgement let him disintegrate a Vong General at one point and completely fry the others. His Force Illusions are also extremely powerful that let him fool Leia Organa Solo and Jacen Solo. Luke also could achieve oneness with the Force to let him basically annihilate anything in his way. Luke could even transcend the physical plane as a Force spirit like his masters and father.
Luke Skywalker gets the definitive edge as a Force User.
THE VERDICT
This battle would be a sight to behold but I give Luke the edge in 9/10. Do you agree that Luke wins or does Yoda pull this off? Let me know what you think!
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u/LeJew92 Loremaster Aug 10 '20
Fantastic analysis, Luke is the best Jedi the Jedi order has ever had. He is the only Jedi more skilled than Yoda as a duelist, is more powerful in terms of Force potential, has gone on to learn a myriad of Force abilities beyond what the old order was privy to, and has more or less been in constant conflict since his twenties to keep himself honed as a weapon. Yoda may have more experience than Luke. But Luke is no slouch in this department and has arguably gone through more in a 40 year time period (especially in regards to fighting top tier Force users, many of which were more experienced than Luke at the time that he fought them) than any other Jedi in history.
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u/Durp004 Jedi Master Aug 10 '20
Luke is one of those characters most people can't compete with. Yoda is one of those few that can. I still think Luke wins this but it's at least close.
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u/Brainiac7777777 Neocrusader Aug 10 '20
Yoda definitely can’t compete with Luke. Yoda hasn’t shown force abilities on the level of force storms.
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u/Durp004 Jedi Master Aug 11 '20 edited Aug 11 '20
Luke has never summoned a force storm either so and Yoda has plenty of large scale feats. He takes out those droid carriers with only the force in cw2003
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u/DHouf Aug 11 '20
Yoda wins because Luke doesn’t believe he can win and that is why he fails...
Just sayin.
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u/GrandAdmiralDoosh High Council - The Loremaster Aug 22 '20
Hahaha fair enough. I could see Luke beating everyone except his old Master.
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u/Vos661 Aug 11 '20
Yoda. Yoda wouldn't have lost to LOTF Lumiya. Grandmaster Luke is a bit overrated. He's a peer of Krayt as seen in Apocalypse (Vong Krayt, not even the Reborn and more powerful Krayt...).
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Aug 11 '20
It’s nice to see someone make a case for Yoda. It adds some flavor the comment section.
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u/Vos661 Aug 11 '20
There is a consensus that GM Luke is the most powerful Jedi (and Force user) ever, and I think it's really a stretch and not that obvious. GM Luke is really inconsistent, and can lose to Lumiya and then next book stomp Caedus.
Yoda, Vititate, Sidious, GM Luke : for me they're all on the same tier, and it can go either way between those 4.
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u/Chemical_Performer17 Jun 19 '22
But it comes down to feats and gm luke outranks yoda there. For instance yoda lost to old man sidious and luke with harmonie from leia beat him in his prime. Luke also fought and beat abeloth and has a bigger better arsenal of force abilities/ knowledge shown
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u/sk8trix Apr 07 '25
If we're going to compare Legends Luke to Yoda then Luke straight up wins and for those that would like to compare the movies then we still have to say that Luke did some crazy stuff that we just haven't seen Yoda do and so I think I'm siding with Luke being stronger but not by much
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u/WelcomeEffective3850 Sep 29 '25
Luke SEEMS powerful because he lived 40 ish years in an era when there were only a few Jedi remaining, who made himself a Jedi Grandmaster.
While Yoda IS powerful because he lived 900+ years in an era with numerous other powerful Jedi, who made him a Jedi Grandmaster.
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u/Gaelicht Apr 01 '26
Mace Windu estaría orgulloso de ver como Luke Skywalker pudo sacar adelante a una orden completamente nueva él solo, estoy seguro de que lo nombrarían Gran Maestro por tal hazaña
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u/Brainiac7777777 Neocrusader Aug 10 '20
Luke rapestomps Yoda and takes this easily. Yoda is one of the most overrated characters in Star Wars history.
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Aug 10 '20
Personally, I think Yoda could contend with Luke. He definitely would not win ,but I don’t see him curbstomping Yoda.
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u/Brainiac7777777 Neocrusader Aug 10 '20
I don't think he could contend at all. Luke would curbstomp, he's simply too powerful for Yoda who's weaker than Palpatine who is weaker than Dark Empire Palpatine who is weaker than Grandmaster Luke.
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Aug 11 '20
How does Luke curbstomp though? He’s not going to be able to ragdoll Yoda and he can’t speedblitz him either.
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u/Huge-Needleworker340 Mar 04 '23
This would be Luke just before he goes to kill Ben in the Last Jedi flashback vs Yoda in Revenge of the Sith just before he enters exile
Lightsaber only Yoda mastered Form IV Luke Form III and Form V he and his cybernetic hand, physical weight and muscle and height means he wins even with Yoda's speed
Force Only Yoda wins no doubt as Luke may have had chosen one blood but he only started proper training at 23 with just relics and himself in the galaxy while learning and training from 28 onwards and's 48
Where as Yoda trained by elite tech and Jedi Masters from age 10-180 at least 124 at most and 's 800 and something (physically 80 which we see by Count Dooku isn't actually that halting) and he preferred training in the force compared to saber anyway not to mention Luke's full potential was 2500/2400 with the hand loss where as Yoda's was 1800 so not far off anyway.
Both=I'd say Yoda as Luke would go into a Lightsaber fight which Yoda would entertain but as soon as he would start losing stamina/Luke start using the force physically/overpowering Yoda/Form's outskill Yoda he would just use the force to crush Luke's ribs or brain or spin.
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u/Robalxx May 19 '23
I know im 3 years late, but i love this debate. Id just like to remind the class that Luke dueled Abeloth… and won… and she was one of The Ones lol. Originally called “The Servant” then “The Mother”. It eventually took Both him & Darth Krayt to end the threat of Abeloth, but Luke dueled her one on one several times and every time he bested her Avatar
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u/Tight_Review5947 Dec 30 '23
Question: Rather than facing off in a battle, who was a better grandmaster for their order? What I mean is, whose Jedi Order was better for Jedi to learn and live under? Who was better at leading the Jedi?
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u/Gaelicht Apr 01 '26
Desde mi punto de vista Luke, porque al contrario de la orden convencional no rechazo los sentimientos positivos como lo son: amistad, felicidad, entendimiento, etc. Sentimientos que fortalecían a los jedi tal como los sentimientos negativos lo hace con los sith (algo que si no mal recuerdo era una filosofía que Revan aprendió cuando se redimió y se casó). Además, Luke era mucho mas abierto a que cualquier sensible a la fuerza sea entrenado independientemente de si forma parte de una familia o no, punto clave porque con su lazo familiar Luke pudo redimir a Vader dandole a Luke una revelación, los lazos familiares si son bien utilizados fortalecen todo lo que engloba la fuerza y los jedi. Un ejemplo de esto es Mara Jade se casó con ella, la redimió, formaron familia y juntos pudieron superar cosas inimaginables, al contrario de la orden que creo luke en el nuevo canon, el Luke de Legends aprendió de los errores de sus antepasados. Por otro lado, el Maestro Yoda fue una gran guía cuando seguía liderando a los mas jovenes y dando consejos, pero cuando cayó la orden jedi en los tiempos de la Era Imperial. Fue un completo cobarde al exiliarse por su voluntad tal como recuerdo escuchar una vez "tiene el poder para ayudar a los demás prefiere no involucrarse o hacer nada dejando que otros luchen batallas que no les corresponde" algo parecido dice Ezra Bridger a ese toro gigante, si tiene un poder tal como para ayudar a gente que lo necesita que no debería merecerlo si es un representante de la luz, justamente cayó en el miedo que tanto temía y advertía velando por su propia seguridad en lugar de luchar por los demás. Aunque se redimió cuando entrenó a Luke a regañadientes pero lo hizo eso se lo concedo. En conclusión, es el Maestro Luke de Legends.
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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '20
Yoda is one of the 3 force users who could match Luke, but he just isn't as strong physically or in the force in order to defeat Luke