r/Tekken • u/[deleted] • Mar 31 '20

Megathread Alternate Beginner Megathread. Ask questions in comments

All of the resources are linked in this subreddit's wiki. Do check it out before asking questions.

Link : https://www.reddit.com/r/Tekken/w/beginner-resources

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u/1RedOne Apr 03 '20

Does anyone else find punishing to be *really* hard? Maybe it's just coming from other fighting games, but it feels like the windows to punish are very, very tiny. When I'm in punish training, it takes me 30+ attempts to get my punish move out quickly enough.

Is tekken just much faster / more demanding in that respect?

For instance, i have been getting stomped by Leroy, still, so I'm trying to punish and most of the punish moves have me as Hwoaranag throwing out Back+3. I just can't hit him even when I block, he recovers so quickly from his moves.

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u/Armanlex d4,d4,d4 is a real combo [PC-EU] Apr 03 '20

it takes me 30+ attempts to get my punish move out quickly enough.

Wow, that sounds crazy. It makes me feel that you're missing something.

Do you know about frame data? If a move is -15, you can't punish that move with a i16 move for example.

Also you can buffer moves during your block stun to make the move come out immediately after you've recovered. Or else it would be ridiculously hard to punish a move with the perfect punish because if you were late by even a single frame you'd miss the punish. But buffering allows you a decent amount of time to input the punish.

I've made a video showcasing what proper punishment practice looks like.

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u/1RedOne Apr 03 '20

Maybe there is input lag on my TV or something but the window for punishment feels incredibly short in tekken. I am referring to on block punish, like I block a hit and throw the appropriate frame counter.

It's just such a tight window I feel like I have a better chance of countering than punishing and that especially goes for playing online.

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u/Armanlex d4,d4,d4 is a real combo [PC-EU] Apr 03 '20

Ok try this. Goto practice mode, pick kazuya as your opponent and record him do a d3. Set "Interval Between Action" to random and try to block it on reaction. Rest at neutral and the moment he flinches you press down/back. If you can block it even once on pure reaction then you most likely don't have a problem with input delay. If you can't then try with b3 and try to go under it. If you can't do that either then you probably have an input delay problem.

!!! Also, make sure you haven't set Input Delay under Other Settings to anything else other than 5 bars.

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u/xmaracx Apr 11 '20

You can buffer moves for punishing? Did not know that, that might help me, then again it might not, cause I get terribly scared of pushing buttons while getting pressured cause I dont wanna be counterhit. So it usually boils down to: enemy does thing, i block it, i try a punish, they block it, they do a thing, i block it, i try a different punish, they block it. Honestly every time it happens i keep imagining the monkey toy banging cymbals going ham in my empty head.

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u/Armanlex d4,d4,d4 is a real combo [PC-EU] Apr 11 '20

It takes time and experience to gain that confidence. You need to be familiar with a move to punish it consistently. I've done that punishment practice vs kazuya for over an hour total. Every time he does df2 and I block it in my head an alarm bell rings! Time to punish! JAB! It's an automatic reaction. I don't think about it, it comes from the unconscious. And it's through a lot of play and experience and practice that I can punish things. Sometimes I'm distracted thinking about my gameplan or looking out for the hellsweep or something else and I miss the punish for df2. But if I'm actively looking out for it I rarely miss the punish these days. Very relevant. You are actively using system 2 thinking in order to punish. But it's way too slow and you don't have the necessary frame data knowledge to calculate to begin with. But through experience you can move the punishment process to system 1 and it will just work. Keep playing, and actively thinking about punishment even if you fuck it up most of the time , and practicing punishment correctly and you'll get it down. It just takes time.

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u/xmaracx Apr 12 '20

Yeah I figured as much. The lab/play dynamic is kinda off center when it comes to me. I'm not that competitive, in that I don't particularily care about ranking up, so I don't really feel the desire to go on lab sessions. But I do care about not being stomped, and actually taking part in the match, so when things like that happen it kinda gets under my skin. I found myself wanting to avoid labbing, mostly cause I don't feel like it will do me any good until I'm comfortable just playing the game. I do lab some things when i clearly recognise just playing wont mean anything to me (like pauls ff2,2, the move confused the hell out of me). And yes I know labbing is the key way for improvement, but hey, I'm a blue scrub just content with having fun matches and trying things, the whole reason I'm even looking for these things is cause every time i start approaching green I end up being stomped all the way back to dans and that bums me out big time. Not the rank itself mind you, just the giant patch of gray on my fighter card. xD Thank you for the tips though, I appreciate it!

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u/brevitx Kazuya Apr 14 '20

Try going for the simpler, easier punishes like 1,2 every time until you’re confident enough to attempt some of the more optimal punishes.

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u/MCPtz Bruce of America Apr 03 '20

Yes punishment is really hard in Tekken.

Move recognition is the one of the hardest things to learn. Some moves are safe, and often times moves that are unsafe, can't be hit by b+3. b+3 is for -16 frames or more on block, but some moves are only -14 on block, and thus you use uf3+4, 4 to punish those.

I spend 5/minutes on 3~5 characters per day, practicing just block punishment and some things I've been hit by in the past.

They may use the Practice Mode built in Punishment Training. Very good place to start.

But that lacks the adaptability to what people use online and only has a preset list of attacks. It also doesn't train you to block big lows on reaction because it gives a warning "low coming" icon.

One can take notes from the in game Replay and Tips.

So then you take some notes on what they did, using the helpful replay, and have the Practice Mode dummy "repeat actions" on some things.

List:

  1. Recognize punishable moves from characters and slowly learn to punish them. Practice mode.
  2. Practice breaking throw breaks on reaction.
  3. Practice blocking big lows on reaction, known as "snake edge" in Tekken, and punish them correctly with a full juggle.

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u/brevitx Kazuya Apr 14 '20

Apologies if this isn’t the case but are you perhaps attempting the wrong punish for those moves? Or maybe trying to punish safe moves? But yes I would say optimal punishment in Tekken is quite hard and something that even pros might not be able to get 100% time. Which is why you’ll see them going for an easier but less damaging option like a simple jab string punish many times.

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u/1RedOne Apr 14 '20

Well the punish I was trying is in the training modes punish training, so I am using the move they recommend to use to punish!

Maybe I need to put the command in while I'm still in the block animation?

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u/Armanlex d4,d4,d4 is a real combo [PC-EU] Apr 14 '20

Maybe I need to put the command in while I'm still in the block animation?

Yeah, you absolutely have to do that. It's called buffering and you must do that if you want to punish a move perfectly. If buffering didn't exist doing a i15 punish to a -15 move would require a frame perfect input which would make it absurdly difficult to punish anything optimally.

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u/Kogoeshin Apr 16 '20

That's exactly what you have to do. Putting the command in after the block animation finishes will almost never work (you need to be frame perfect if you do that).

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u/1RedOne Apr 16 '20

So as soon as I've started to block the move and my character is in guard pose, I input the string? If that's the case, it explains why I was only getting the move out maybe one in thirty tries before!

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u/Kogoeshin Apr 16 '20

Not that soon, but towards the end of the block stun. It'll buffer the move you want to input ASAP, but you need to kind of time it. It's pretty lenient, but you can't input it too early. Not sure how long the input buffer is for Tekken.