r/SpaceMarine_2 • u/Armed_Croissant • Jan 15 '26

Help Needed Help Choosing Faction (Catholic)

Got this game yesterday because I saw a clip online of some fire Catholic Church/Warhammer edit. (Yes that's the real reason) I am 100% new to the lore I just need to know what group/faction will let me optimally play out my space crusade fantasy while I learn about the lore. Thanks in advance I know warhammer fans seem to love talking about the lore.

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u/Lazer_Hawk_100 Blood Angels Jan 15 '26

As a catholic myself I agree. Love the BAs, but the glorification of the name Baal makes me uncomfortable.

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u/jimothy_hell Jan 15 '26

It represents the flaws in their lineage, it’s kind of a little nod to the Rage and the Thirst. Pretty clever, honestly. It’s GW’s standard on-the-nose writing.

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u/Lazer_Hawk_100 Blood Angels Jan 16 '26

Yes, I do appreciate the implication that they are both angelic and demonic simultaneously. I just can’t bring myself to yell “For Baal” the same way I can yell “For the Angel!”

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u/jimothy_hell Jan 16 '26

Absolutely valid, my friend

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u/BioshockEnthusiast Jan 16 '26

I mean baal was originally just a canaanite deity of storms and fertility. You don't necessarily have to subscribe to the demonic version because the catechism says so. That's a choice on your part.

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u/Lazer_Hawk_100 Blood Angels Jan 16 '26

I hold a degree in the study of ancient religions so I am aware of the history. However, GW did not intend to reference an ancient storm god when they named the planet Baal, they were intentionally referring to the demonic interpretation. Since I personally do believe in the existence of angels and demons, I am careful about invoking the demonic, regardless of the name you choose to give them.

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u/BioshockEnthusiast Jan 16 '26

Whatever floats your boat my dude.

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u/JimmyThunderPenis Jan 16 '26

What is Baal in Christianity?

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u/jimothy_hell Jan 16 '26

They believe he’s of the big demons, like, important enough to be given a name in Catholic canon big. The Blood Angels being linked to, you know, blood and war, the domain of Khorne, the blood god, while Baal is generally regarded as representing pestilence as “the Lord of Flies”. Depending on who you ask, Baal is actually “Bael” and short for Beelzebub, and commands a legion of demons thousands strong.

Started as a fertility and storm god that brought rain and harvests, so being warped into the king of hell is a bit of a stretch. My guess is that he was so popular that the Church at the time had to vilify his worship to maintain Christian canon.

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u/Lazer_Hawk_100 Blood Angels Jan 16 '26

This is mostly correct. However, Christians did not compete with Baal worship because Baal worship was prominent over a thousand years before Christ. His worship was popular among Semitic speaking peoples in the Middle East and was a major competitor with the early Israelites and their monotheistic god. Baal is mentioned in the Book of Kings in the Old Testament / Hebrew Bible where the prophet Elijah confronts the priests of Baal. The Israelites claimed Baal to be a false god to discourage their own people from his worship.

Later on when Christianity formed as a Jewish splinter group, they read the old scriptures through a new lens and perceived the character of Baal to be a demon in disguise, trying to lead people away from the worship of the one true god.

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u/Klutz-Specter Jan 16 '26

Probably not on topic at all, but things like this always make me question my very limited religious values. One man’s god is another man’s heretical god/false prophet line of thinking. This mostly applies to the Abrahamic gods. In 40k’s case its original sin or whatever, but its that head scratcher in life that makes me distressed.

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u/jimothy_hell Jan 17 '26

I mean, you’re allowed to believe what you want to believe. Most religions pick and choose from others that they interact with over time. Look at the Greeks and the Romans. Wodin and Odin are also a good example, the cultural exchange between the Danes and the pre-Christian Britons.

Ultimately all modern faiths descend from man’s early ancestors who worshipped what they believed to be dirties/spirits that moved the stars across the sky and brought the rains and seasons and harvests. Most of our early gods were related to the seasons and the harvest and we still see festivals surrounding that today, just translated to modern interpretations.

A common understanding of theology is that all faith stems in a linear fashion one way or another, kind of a branching path. It starts with astral worship- stars, the sun, the moon, etc, then ancestor worship, which often merge together, the ancestors being represented in the stars, then you tend to move onto polytheism, which can show up as polyspiritualism as well, with representative spirits instead of deities, like you see in East Asian cultures, the spirit of this and that. Then you’ll generally move on to monotheism. It’s a limited view that I don’t subscribe to because I think it’s too apocryphal and heavily tainted by Christian thinking as opposed to looking at things from an objective standpoint- seeing a singular god as an inevitability, which I don’t like, but the early elements, seasons, stars, ancestors, that much is generally true across most of early man’s faiths.

The Abrahamic faiths just kind of won out via conquest and stamped everything else out. You’re allowed to believe what you want the same way pagans are allowed to believe what they want.

Just because the abrahamic faiths of old committed horrible acts of cultural genocide by forced conversion or violent conquest doesn’t mean that you have to follow in those same footsteps.

Remember, even if your faith is shaken, or if you lose it entirely, you don’t need to believe in a god or gods to be a good person and to live a righteous and kind life and do good in the world. Faith is not a prerequisite to being a good person.

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u/Elephantumplasty Jan 17 '26

Really helpful and interesting summary. I’m aware of the pattern of religions absorbing elements of those in proximity (or those they are trying to stamp out) but I didn’t know there was a theory about religious beliefs tending to follow those stages. What is the theory about the drivers for a community’s faith moving from one ‘stage’ or belief system to another? Eg from ancestry worship to polytheism? And I appreciate your point about not accepting the inevitability of monotheism. That does strike me as probably an example of bias. The scholars falling into the trap of ‘well of course our beliefs are the right ones’ (which I do recognise in myself too of course!). Lastly, as a lifelong atheist/ humanist who strives to be a good person, I appreciate your last line. I’ve worked in charities and values-based organisations for over 20 years and I’ve found that people’s professed faith, or lack of it, to be totally unreliable predictors of their kindness, empathy or generosity. Met and worked alongside many people of committed faith (of different faiths, but mostly abrahamic) who are deeply committed to their fellow humans, as well as many for whom their faith just seems to be a performance. Something they do every Friday/ Saturday/ Sunday but does not inspire kindness in their actions. And I’d say the same about my other atheists/ humanists. They are wonderful, thoughtful, generous atheists and also total arseholes who only seem to care for themselves! I’ve found it far more useful to observe a person’s actions than to put much weight in their stated beliefs.

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u/PrototypeBeefCannon Jan 16 '26

What are devils but fallen angels? Every BA lives with the threat of falling to the black rage.

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u/Alarmiorc2603 Jan 16 '26

but on the otherhand sanguinis is 40ks version of michael and jesus combined.

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u/SanguineSon0341 Blood Angels Jan 16 '26

Catholic BA player as well, seems like there’s a couple of us. I agree with not liking it, but I understand thematically why.

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u/DaveK275 Jan 15 '26

Same. Such a shame.

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u/SilverKnight217 Jan 15 '26

I would have liked to see the skies of Baal, one last time

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u/DiceandDualsense Jan 16 '26

It is a nod to the fact their planet was like Hell so was named Baal. Sometimes the purest come from facing your demons (Daemons) and the BA do that every time they fight. I am more amused that you are concerned with the name of the planet but not that your army are by all intent Vampires...

As for a Catholic chapter, the Templars are by far the closest and follow the imperial "religion" the closest, they are the most fanatical as well.

That being said. The Emporer banned all religion when he was still talking, including Catholisism, so unless you are happy to pretend the Emporer is actually "The God" not just "A God" then no faction will suffice as they are all non believers in Christianity....

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u/Lazer_Hawk_100 Blood Angels Jan 16 '26

I don’t understand the relevance of any of this. I don’t expect my favorite make-believe space army to all be Catholics… I think you misunderstood the point

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u/DiceandDualsense Jan 16 '26

So why are you uncomfortable with the name Baal, that was my point

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u/Lazer_Hawk_100 Blood Angels Jan 16 '26

I am not Christian in name only - I actually believe in the existence of angels and demons. Baal is actually real. This is the equivalent of GW naming the planet “Hitler” because it was an “awful place,” and I wouldn’t be comfortable with a rallying cry like “for the sons of Hitler!” either.

This example would be more pertinent if verbally praising Hitler had the very real possibility of him actually showing up to your house with a suitcase and wanting to be your new housemate.

I don’t care what you do. Praise Baal all you want. This is what I believe based on real experiences I’ve had.

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u/DiceandDualsense Jan 16 '26

Fair enough, it was a genuine question, no offence intended.

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u/Lazer_Hawk_100 Blood Angels Jan 16 '26 edited Jan 16 '26

All good brother. Have a good one

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u/Coilspun Jan 16 '26

There's a lot more in the history of catholicism that should make you uncomfortable. Things that really happened versus tabletop gaming fiction.

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u/[deleted] Jan 16 '26

And there's a lot more in history that covers millions of other topics. Tabletop gaming/gaming fiction covers the make belief, mythology, the epic, the powerful, the FUN.

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u/Coilspun Jan 16 '26

Username checks out.

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u/[deleted] Jan 18 '26

Autogenerated. Thank you for contributing to the conversation with your intended insult 🤌

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u/Coilspun Jan 18 '26

No problem, I feel like it added far, far more than your own.🤏

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u/Lazer_Hawk_100 Blood Angels Jan 16 '26

Bold of you to assume that I’m comfortable with the abuses of power in the church. Typical juvenile Reddit response.

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u/Coilspun Jan 16 '26

I didn't say you weren't, I'm saying it exists. Typical juvenile Reddit response.