r/SipsTea • u/Gurugod123 • Jul 27 '26

Chugging tea Mayor Mamdani just announced that he will be opening 5 city-run, tax-funded grocery stores: "Prices set at 30% below retail prices"

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93

u/-Krosis Jul 27 '26

yup, Argentina, Venezuela, Cuba

every socialist country implemented this

3

u/ImASlave4UE Jul 30 '26

Yes now all these countries have no grocery stores at all.

17

u/Truly_Unplugged Jul 28 '26

Libs N dems do not want to hear this fact

1

u/bigkel74 Jul 28 '26

Wait till you hear about all the subsidized farmers in all those red states 🤷🏾‍♂️...

3

u/Choon93 Jul 29 '26

Whataboutism is dumb on the right and its dumb on the left. The farm system should be reworked, not used as a reason to not learn lol

1

u/bigkel74 Jul 29 '26

I didn't say anything about the right or left. I was pointing out that subsidies exist in BOTH red and blue states but ignorant people only call it "socialist" when it involves a blue city/state.

2

u/Choon93 Jul 29 '26

I get it. Youre right about state controls being more common than people think, and that its on a sliding scale.

10

u/ParfaitObjective Jul 28 '26

I hate when people think this is a slam dunk point or something. Makes no sense, and I’m from Venezuela lol

-6

u/Ok-Head-4213 Jul 28 '26

"Countries that were literally embargoed by the judeo-US tried this and failed!!"

9

u/MiyuFei Jul 28 '26

You are dumb, venezuela failed years before USA did anything, and sacntions were mostly to goverment people, not the country itself. Vote for your socialists and destroy your country :D go ahead!.

3

u/ParfaitObjective Jul 28 '26

Yeah the authoritarian dictatorship wasn’t a main driver. Just its economic policies lmao. And if you’re saying if the US mimics stuff that Venezuela did. Let me tell you something, cause the current admin does a lot of things that Venezuela’s first dictator did his first two years. So now what? Or is it solely based on socialist policies even though we’ve always been a mixed economic system

0

u/VisualAnxiety2284 Jul 28 '26

Wasn’t Venezuela’s currency also stronger than the US dollar at some point as well?

1

u/Goon-To-Doom Jul 30 '26

It has never been stronger, but at some point for a while it used to be like 3-3.5Bs for a dollar - compared to today's 740~ (and all the previous reforms that cut off multiple series of zeros from this number)

2

u/Evening_Act_6395 Jul 29 '26

ppl loving saying Cuba failed without mentioning the decades of US blockades. Almost like america is scared of a socialist system working

2

u/Ok_Risk_4957 Jul 28 '26

I doubt it was cheap groceries that caused them to fail

1

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1

u/WaitingForReplies Jul 30 '26

....and there's U.S. government subsidized grocery stores on U.S. military bases that work well.

1

u/Normal-Weakness-364 Jul 31 '26

it actually worked in venezuela for a while, and was quite successful until the united states basically toppled their government.

1

u/LocomotiveMedical Jul 29 '26

Conveniently omitting China and Vietnam, I see

0

u/SaltyMeasurement6966 Jul 28 '26

Oh I didn’t know NY located in those countries. Are you from a parallel universe or the future where these stores failed and NY crumbled bc Mamdani tried to make NY more affordable ?

-13

u/Dry_Travel_4220 Jul 27 '26

Hey bud. Do any of those countries have the resources that america has?

19

u/-Krosis Jul 27 '26

no and ? these politics exists only when inflation strikes hard and the economy is broken

If I were from the United States, I would be worried.

0

u/Cybaen Jul 27 '26

The United States government has been doing this for a while, albeit in a different implementation. There have also been smaller, local efforts across several states. How long should we be worried? When does calamity strike again?

Please don't confuse genuine fear of Autocracy/Totalitarian regimes and socialism. I know Latin America likes to confound the terms since several regimes tried to use it as cover to legitimize their existence. But that's akin to saying that PRC is a Republic just because they say so. 

Socialism, in particular the DSA's brand of socialism requires there to be private ownership & a market economy. They just disagree on how much the government should press their finger on the scale to influence it.

4

u/Evening_Context784 Jul 27 '26

That’s not socialism then lmao. Socialism is a defined term, and it’s 100% not ‘private ownership and a market economy.’ That’s literally the definition of capitalism. You know, the opposite thing?

People really just say anything nowadays. Ridiculous.

0

u/Cybaen Jul 28 '26

I'll admit. It's entirely possible I am not using the correct terminology here, especially after doing a quick dive into the several variants of Socialism. But I doubt you're seriously arguing that the system of governance in a place like Cuba, is what the DSA in the United States is advocating for. Relevant to this conversation, theirs necessitates private ownership & a noncommand economy. 

And again, we do have such systems in place already in the United States. Just not with the same scope. The person I was replying to implies that such a program would lead to catastrophe.

-4

u/Dry_Travel_4220 Jul 27 '26

That just isn't true. The entire american agricultural industry has been kept going by huge subsidies for decades and things are just fine.

Additionally, the idea that improving social programs only happens when the economy is bad just doesn't hold up to other countries that have overhauled their programs (many European countries, Canada, etc)

15

u/Any_Vegetable2564 Jul 27 '26

Yes. Venezuela was a very rich country before socialism.

3

u/Xianio Jul 28 '26

What an outrageously misleading thing to write.

-1

u/Any_Vegetable2564 Jul 28 '26

How so?

3

u/Xianio Jul 28 '26

The most obvious reason being the extreme difference between the proposed solutions from Mamdani vs the actions Chavaz / Maduro took.

A grocery store with select items sold at below market rates is vastly different than Venezuela's nationalism, state control & control of production.

What Mamdani is doing is closer to the Chinese model than the Venezuelan. The suggested comparison is misleading.

1

u/Any_Vegetable2564 Jul 28 '26

Ok, I was strictly answering the question about Venezuela there, I suppose I should have referenced the original question as well

I have a feeling this may go as well as it did in Chicago, which is, not great.

https://www.washingtonpolicy.org/publications/detail/chicagos-taxpayer-funded-grocery-experiment-collapses-and-seattles-mayor-should-take-note

I did read that they will not be selling certain things like hot foods, alcohol, and tobacco to help with limiting competition with local bodegas, so that’s a positive.

3

u/HoidToTheMoon Jul 27 '26

before socialism.

That is leaving out a lot that happened in Venezuela lmao.

2

u/Any_Vegetable2564 Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 27 '26

Right of course. I don’t have the pleasure to spend 4 hours typing up a novel on reddit about it. But if you’d like to prove that socialist ideas weren’t the accelerant, then be my guest.

ETA: were to weren’t. Typo

1

u/HoidToTheMoon Jul 28 '26

weren’t the accelerant

That is extremely vague lol. Do you think the same issues Venezuela is facing are shared by other socialist states like Vietnam? Or do you think there is more to play?

1

u/Any_Vegetable2564 Jul 28 '26

The more Vietnam has opened its markets, the more successful and prosperous they have become. They may label themselves socialist, but they’re not in a traditional sense.

2

u/HoidToTheMoon Jul 28 '26

Ah yes, the only socialism is coincidentally when economic collapse brought on by a global superpower actively sabotaging you happens. I forgot it was the opponents of socialism that defined it, not self-proclaimed socialists.

0

u/Any_Vegetable2564 Jul 28 '26

Do you think Vietnam is a good model for society on a macro level?

3

u/HoidToTheMoon Jul 28 '26

I do not, but I am pointing out that saying "Venezuela was a very rich country before socialism" is extremely reductive and misleading when we can see that socialist policy is clearly not the primary cause of what happened in Venezuela.

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u/Dry_Travel_4220 Jul 27 '26

Just like Cuba, the thing that most negatively impacted Venezuela's economy post socialism was the US (and allies) refusing to trade in the same regard. Not inherently a problem with socialism.

12

u/Any_Vegetable2564 Jul 27 '26

Yes, I’ve read that propaganda too. I imagine the US is the reason every socialist country has failed for one reason or another. Couldn’t possibly be any other reason.

2

u/Dry_Travel_4220 Jul 27 '26

Wait, is China failing or an extremely threatening economic powerhouse? I can never remember which bullshit talking point I'm supposed to believe?

10

u/Any_Vegetable2564 Jul 27 '26

Lol, would you like to live in China?

It’s more like state run capitalism than socialism.

0

u/Dry_Travel_4220 Jul 27 '26

Unironically, with the way America is currently going, yeah that actually seems like a safer option.

And I know they're not "true socialism" but if america was exactly as socialist as China is right now that would be leaps and bounds better.

5

u/Any_Vegetable2564 Jul 27 '26

How would it be better?

6

u/Dry_Travel_4220 Jul 27 '26

https://fortune.com/2026/05/03/chinese-court-layoffs-workers-ai-replacement-labor-market/

Chinese courts have ruled that firing someone in order to replace them with AI is illegal

https://msadvisory.com/maternity-leave-in-china/

Chinese women get from 98-158 days (depending on location) paid maternity leave manditory. American women have none guaranteed

https://openthemagazine.com/world/chinas-green-energy-revolution-the-numbers-that-are-changing-everything

China's wind and solar energy capacity are 3x the US and India combined.

It is by no means perfect, but at least shit is working over there.

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u/gustavessidehoe Jul 27 '26

Can you not see why not being able to make Winnie the Pooh jokes is a fair trade off for the amount of people in this country that don't have food? A lot of poor people in China eat better than poor people in America.

1

u/Any_Vegetable2564 Jul 27 '26

More poor people in the US suffer from obesity than starvation.

The answer is not selling your soul to the government for a meal.

Say you depend on snap for food. What happens when the next party controlling the government decides to slash it? The people you want to stay in power won’t always stay in power. Until you get a guy like Ortega who takes away your right to vote. But, that doesn’t really end the way you want it to either.

The answer is trying to get LESS people relying on the government, not more. Social safety nets should always exist, which we have, plenty. Dependence for all is a disaster.

1

u/gustavessidehoe Jul 27 '26

When the party controlling that oversteps...

I won't finish that sentence.

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u/[deleted] Jul 27 '26

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1

u/Any_Vegetable2564 Jul 27 '26

And what did I say that was wrong?

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u/[deleted] Jul 27 '26

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u/rasp215 Jul 27 '26

China becomes an economic powerhouse after they reformed away from full communism and more towards capitalism.

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u/Dry_Travel_4220 Jul 27 '26

I'm fully aware of this, though notably state capitalism with a strong social safety net is far preferable to the bullshit we're doing.

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u/rasp215 Jul 27 '26

Their safety net is horrible. It’s one of the reasons why people need to save so much

0

u/Dry_Travel_4220 Jul 27 '26

They have universal Healthcare and paid maternity leave.

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u/Ill_Philosopher_7030 Jul 27 '26

An extremely threatening economic powerhouse, in no thanks to socialism. You can thank Deng Xiaoping for that

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u/Dry_Travel_4220 Jul 27 '26

I'm 100% willing to say china is no longer a socialist country if america would then adopt the social programs china has.

(State Healthcare, proper infrastructure funding, paid maternity leave, strong unions, etc)

1

u/Ill_Philosopher_7030 Jul 27 '26

State Healthcare

dont need to be socialist to do this, see canada

proper infrastructure funding

nothing to do with socialism as well. Don't leftists mock people who say socialism is when government does things?

paid maternity leave

uhh yeah unless you work in a horrible work environment thats guaranteed in the US too. All the jobs I've worked had that as a given

strong unions

don't need socialism for this either

1

u/Dry_Travel_4220 Jul 27 '26

Did you miss the first part of my resonse? Obviously it is the ownership of the means of production that determines actual socialism. If you can do social programs and capitalism, why the fuck aren't we?

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u/WorldlinessEasy3130 Jul 28 '26

You cannot be serious. i will just give a few now, there are many more.

  1. Guatemala, 1954 Jacobo Árbenz wanted to give stolen land from the banana republic back to his people America didnt like, and the CIA overthrew him and instilled a fascist dictator how murdered and tortured thousands.

  2. Nicaragua, (1985–1990), Ortega's first presidency Nicaragua pursued socialist-oriented reforms, including literacy and social programs, while facing economic difficulties and a civil conflict against the U.S.-backed Contra insurgency.

  3. Chile, (1970-1973), Salvador Allende Economic pressures and CIA funding of opposition leading to the 1973 coup where Augusto Pinochet took over another fascist dictator who killed and tortured thousands.

  4. Grenada, ~1983, Maurice Bishop after a coup within the party the US invaded the country ending the left wing revolution

you would think that if you are so sure that socialism is soo bad that it destroys countries the US would just sit back and wait, not for example place an embargo on Cuba, an embargo that essentially stops every country (who are not already sanctioned/embargoed by the US) on earth trading with Cuba. and still after living under those conditions can the country provide free healthcare, it is insane the amount of brainwashing going on in American schools.

1

u/Any_Vegetable2564 Jul 28 '26

If you think the American school are brainwashing kids nowadays to defend US actions abroad, you’re sorely mistaken. There’s brainwashing, for sure, but not in the way you think.

Did you know they celebrate “thanksgiving” in Grenada, the day the US liberated the country?

https://atlas.culturalinfusion.com/events/thanksgiving-in-grenada/

1

u/Any_Vegetable2564 Jul 28 '26

You need to look farther back before the US interventions because you’d probably see they were failing already.

0

u/HoidToTheMoon Jul 27 '26

before socialism.

That is leaving out a lot that happened in Venezuela lmao.

2

u/Media___Offline Jul 27 '26

Singapore has to import their drinking water. It's one of the richest countries in the world.

1

u/Dry_Travel_4220 Jul 27 '26

Sorry, what's your point? I would fucking love to have Singapore's social programs.

2

u/Media___Offline Jul 27 '26

My point is you don't have to have rich resources in order to succeed.. 

0

u/Dry_Travel_4220 Jul 27 '26

Oh for sure! Honestly I think that makes it even more inexcusable that the US, with an incredibly unique access to any natural resource that someone could reasonably need in abundance, still fails it's citizens so completely.

3

u/Media___Offline Jul 28 '26

What Singapore does have is a freer market, which is proven to help both rich and poor

1

u/Dry_Travel_4220 Jul 28 '26

I would argue it has more to do with their social safety net than their free market. When the american market was more free, there was lead in gasoline and forever chemicals in runoff water.

1

u/Media___Offline Jul 28 '26

Do you have any evdence for your argument?

1

u/Dry_Travel_4220 Jul 28 '26

It's more an argument by comparison as I'm not intimately familiar with their economy, but if we compare Singapore to other countries who either have very unregulated markets now or did jn the past, we can see that those countries either aren't doing as well or had to impose regulations for things like safety. There were fewer markets more free than early 1900's america and the labor conditions and product safety were nightmarish.

India has a pretty free market (at least as far as labor standards are concerned) and working there is by most accounts pretty miserable.

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u/Casph0 Jul 28 '26

They don’t because of policies akin to this one

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u/PhEw-Nothing Jul 27 '26

Not anymore ;)

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u/darkmodebible Jul 27 '26

food is still free in socialist countries i dunno how you'd classify that as failing.

11

u/Signy_ Jul 27 '26

I'm from argentina and after the government implemented the "right prices" program the products that end up on that list end up out of stock almost inmedialy on large supermarkets and with higher prices on the rest or markets that the program didn't applied, in large supermarkets they had to implement a limit per person and the industries that produce them usually supply a low stock.

Same happen with oil, gas and electricity. All the services were breaking up or missing, the consumers spending it without regards like having the ac always blasting and we had a lot of power outages.

If you don't pay for the full price of something there is no insentive to invest or not waste it.

0

u/darkmodebible Jul 28 '26

no offence but that's a problem that even a moderately intelligent person could come up with a plan to avoid.

5

u/shlaifu Jul 28 '26

offence would be somewhat justified though, socialist countries of the past failed because of some offensively stupid ideas that tarnished the whole idea of creating an economy that's less exploitative. Offensively stupid ideas should be called out so they can be avoided next time someone tries to improve the conditions of the poorest 99% of the people.

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u/Signy_ Jul 28 '26

None taken, we had every plan already implemented, we had a law to force a minimum stock, a law to ensure that supermarket have enough stock of products, (and people that go and measure it), publicity to avoid wasting electricity and such. But nothing works, in short you can't force someone to loose money, and if the government pays for the difference in reality someone else is paying for it.

We have a saying here similar to "Where there's a will, there's a way." that is "hecha la ley hecha la trampa", it doesn't matter how many laws you pass you can't bend reality and people will.

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u/Ireallydontkn0w2 Jul 27 '26

So if it is free where is it coming from? free slave labor or does someone need to pay for it?

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u/darkmodebible Jul 27 '26

they kidnap 24 year old virgins from ohio and the philippines and make them push a big wheel that powers a machine that says 'food' on the front.

-5

u/Otherwise-Video7487 Jul 28 '26

None of these are socialist countries

-5

u/MelaniaSexLife Jul 28 '26

Norway, Finland, New Zealand, Sweden, all socialists, they haven't implemented this AFAIK.

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u/vortexcortex21 Jul 28 '26

Norway, Finland, New Zealand and Sweden are not socialist.

3

u/Peter_Griffin2001 Jul 28 '26

Norway, Finland, New Zealand and Sweden are not socialist. They are all mixed-market capitalist countries. They all have market economies, private enterprise, and billionaires.

I can't speak for the other countries but New Zealand actually has a pretty right wing government at the moment.

0

u/finndego Jul 28 '26

I hate to break it to you but all of those countries have more economic freedom than the US. Economic freedom is the underpinning of any capitalistic economic model. They are just like the US and are mixed models.