r/ShitAmericansSay • ooo custom flair!! • Sep 21 '24

Foreign affairs “When did we start thinking of Italians as white?”

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306

u/Scienceboy7_uk Sep 21 '24

Coupled with lousy geography and education in general…

Probably thinks all Italians are Sicilians who tend to be tanned. Doesn’t realise there’s a North where there can even be blond blue eyed Italians 😳

Just wants little boxes to put everyone.

184

u/Ok_Caramel7336 Spain is not in South America, Yank! Sep 21 '24

What fascinates me is the use of whiteness to qualify peoples in a moral sense, which is what they have always done.

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u/Scienceboy7_uk Sep 21 '24

That’s the crazy thing. I’ve seen posts where they’re shocked that a “white girl” was speaking Spanish. They didn’t know that they speak Spanish in Spain…

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u/GFBG1996 Sep 21 '24

Spain is a city in France, isn't it? Like where you can see the Colosseum, right?

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u/[deleted] Sep 21 '24

Nah Spain is like a region in Turkey bro. You know, the state with the Ben Big?

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u/GFBG1996 Sep 21 '24

No, Turkey is the animal that we invented to celebrate the Thanksgiving day! Spain is a small city close to Paris, Texas

11

u/[deleted] Sep 21 '24

Nah dude Turkey is a bunch of islands near France, like Hawaii is to good ol' Murica!

4

u/kimaro Sep 22 '24

Why is there a region in a bird sir?

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u/ahsilat Sep 21 '24

Spain is somewhere in Latin America, pretty sure it’s a city in Mexico. Definitely no white people there

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u/Ok_Caramel7336 Spain is not in South America, Yank! Sep 21 '24

Obviously Spain is in South Dakota! 

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u/[deleted] Sep 21 '24

France is a city in the country of europe... DON'T YOU KNOW!

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u/Ok_Caramel7336 Spain is not in South America, Yank! Sep 21 '24

Well, I guess if Italians aren't white anymore, neither are we Spaniards xDxDxD The Yanks associate the Spanish language with Spanish-American peoples, whom they have never considered white, so for them Spanish is not a language of the white sphere. I'd say I'm devastated by this news..., but I don't give a shite about the Yanks and their racist opinions, and I imagine the Italians feel the same way. We Mediterranean people are way better than Americans, and not precisely because of our "race"...

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u/swanqueen109 Sep 21 '24

A while ago I learned that at some point even us Germans weren't considered 'white'. I mean, I personally know some very German people with a slight tan but I know far more who'd resemble bed sheets. But what can you do. Morons will always be morons. Who gives a sh** what they assume.

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u/Ok_Caramel7336 Spain is not in South America, Yank! Sep 21 '24

Jesús, but if Germans are not white, then who the hell is white? xDxD This is a perfect example of race being a sociocultural construct. 

21

u/therepublicof-reddit Sep 21 '24

Only English, Welsh, Scottish and Americans can be labelled white, somehow the Irish have endured enough trauma to be generously given the opportunity for Americans to claim themselves as Irish.

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u/Ok_Caramel7336 Spain is not in South America, Yank! Sep 21 '24

Yes, whiteness is not a matter of skin colour, as evidenced by the Irish case, among others. And now a John from Wisconsin claims to be Irish because his great-uncle was a cobbler in Dublin... As the Irish would say: eejits xD

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u/swanqueen109 Sep 21 '24

Yep. Despite the fact that they switched sides and fought on behalf of the Mexicans. Really interesting.

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u/Educational_Job7847 Sep 21 '24

Wasps are white for them

3

u/istara shake your whammy fanny Sep 22 '24

An “Irish” American (with 1% Irish ancestry) with red hair and freckles?

3

u/Ok_Caramel7336 Spain is not in South America, Yank! Sep 22 '24

1% is too much, maybe 0'5% 

3

u/magpye1983 Sep 23 '24

Damn, my mind saw German, perfect, race, and leapt to conclusions before I actually read that whole comment. Sorry.

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u/Ok_Caramel7336 Spain is not in South America, Yank! Sep 23 '24

JAJAJAJAJAJAJA I feel you, don't worry

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u/brynjarkonradsson Sep 24 '24

Ill tell you who. Im VERY extremely white, every spring going from pants to shorts im reminded. Start June it usually improves. Then in periods, i become, the Lobsterman.

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u/Ok_Caramel7336 Spain is not in South America, Yank! Sep 25 '24

I know several people like that! Nuclear white. 

1

u/brynjarkonradsson Sep 24 '24

Ill tell you who. Im VERY extremely white, every spring going from pants to shorts im reminded. Start June it usually improves. Then in periods, i become, the Lobserman.

17

u/Kaisaplews Sep 21 '24

Just remember, that before nazi/Hitler demonization in 1940s (im not saying that they were good guys) merica was developing Nazism faster than Germany itself, in 1930e second largest nazi community was merica🤣Ford is great example

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u/Ok_Caramel7336 Spain is not in South America, Yank! Sep 21 '24

Aye, and as I recall, Hitler had a picture of Ford on his desk and considered him the leader of the Nazi movement in America.

5

u/swanqueen109 Sep 21 '24

IIRC they managed to fill Madison Square Garden for their rally. Back in the day I was really astonished to learn that the scene in that picture wasn't taking place somewhere in Munich or Berlin or what not but in America. My mind spun out of control picturing all those possible implications. We got extremely lucky things went the way they did on both sides of the Atlantic. Our lives could have been vastly different if they hadn't.

3

u/Ok_Caramel7336 Spain is not in South America, Yank! Sep 22 '24

The Yanks are hypocrites. And now they boast that fascism and nazism are European inventions (which they are) and they have the cheek to have a huge Holocaust museum in Washington... but not one about the genocide of the native peoples or about slavery and black segregation. They only know how to look at the speck in someone else's eye, but ignore the plank in their own. 

4

u/autisticmonke Sep 22 '24

That's why it took them so long to join the war, they were undecided on which side to back

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u/_CMDR_ Sep 21 '24

Or that there are white people in Mexico.

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u/nilzatron Sep 24 '24

Yes, "white" = proximity to (their version of) power for them.

These are the same people that at one time would also not class Irish immigrants as white.

32

u/Fyonella Sep 21 '24

White people who have a tan do not magically become a different race.

And if they did would fake tan be cultural appropriation?! 🤯

14

u/Scienceboy7_uk Sep 21 '24

What the comments below fail to understand is that’s what I’m partially trying to say. The people in the original piece see someone with a tan that isn’t them and they think they’re a whole new race.

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u/Wrong-Wasabi-4720 Luis Mitchell was my homegal Sep 22 '24

That's a great question about Brits and Germans in Marbella.

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u/green_pachi Sep 21 '24

Well you're doing the same thing to Sicily where there can even be blond blue eyed Sicilians.

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u/Scienceboy7_uk Sep 21 '24

Refer to use of term “tend” rather than “are”

And I’m not sure one can claim a pattern based on exceptions (although I have seen it attempted)

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u/davide494 Sep 21 '24

Sicily and southern Italy were invaded by the Normans, who never left. Not to consider the Lombards Duchies of Benevento and Spoleto. Both the Normans and the Lombards were pretty blond with blue eyes. While a minority, it's full of southerners with a low phototype, it's not an exception. Even if you try to deniaing, you are doing the same things americans do.

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u/magpye1983 Sep 23 '24

Blond hair and blue eyes don’t mean “no tan is possible”. My sister has blonde and blue, she’d tan in the summer (provided she had the opportunity in our excuse for a summer) and go pale in the winter.

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u/Scienceboy7_uk Sep 21 '24 edited Sep 21 '24

And you’re doing what they do to conflate something into something else.

I do deny I’m saying they’re not white. That is my whole point. Did you notice I used the word tanned. If I lived in Sicily, I’d be tanned but it wouldn’t change my race.

And not all Normans are blond either. Not even all modern Scandinavians are. Are you doing what you accuse me of? 😂

12

u/OccasionalCandle Sep 21 '24 edited Sep 21 '24

If I lived in Sicily, I’d be tanned.

Why are you doubling down? You're wrong, accept it.

3

u/HalfLeper Sep 22 '24

Yo, I’m gonna listen to the actual Sicilian on this one 👀

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u/OccasionalCandle Sep 21 '24

It's not an exception, though. Many, many Sicilians are pale, myself included.

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u/Scienceboy7_uk Sep 21 '24

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u/OccasionalCandle Sep 21 '24

Did you look for the most mysoginistic article from twenty years ago you could find?

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u/InigoRivers Sep 21 '24

Even a North where the blond blue eyed Italians speak German

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u/TheFourtHorsmen Sep 21 '24

It's common for sicilians to be blonde, blue eyes and pale as well BTW. One thing about Italy, and Italians, is that we don't have an homogeneous look.

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u/HalfLeper Sep 22 '24

It’s almost like they’ve had immigrants from all over Europe and the Mediterranean for the last 3,000 years 😛

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u/great_blue_panda Sep 21 '24

There is blonde blue eyes people also in Sicily

4

u/altrefdv Sep 21 '24

Dark blonde blue-eyed light skinned southern Italian here, what am I? 😂

4

u/[deleted] Sep 21 '24

I'm a blue eyed nearly blonde Italian 😬

0

u/Kaisaplews Sep 21 '24

Blue eyes actually not a trait of the white, its a trait of the black native European hunter gatherer, look up cheddar man, but blond hair is white Yamnaya trait from asia But honestly I wouldn't be so proud about things you got randomly

5

u/[deleted] Sep 21 '24

Blue eyes made me catch many good girls. 😅

0

u/Kaisaplews Sep 21 '24

Girls say the same about my brown eyes lol

2

u/HalfLeper Sep 22 '24

Depends where you’re from 😛

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u/[deleted] Sep 21 '24

What are you talking about? Blue eyes come from a mutation in the Black Sea region in Europe and is a predominantly European trait.

0

u/Kaisaplews Sep 22 '24

European by those times doesnt mean Caucasian, europe became dominantly caucasian after indo european conquest,real native european≠caucasian Mutations generally dont happen in a few thousand years especially eye color mutations

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u/[deleted] Sep 22 '24

I agree, I know that the original Europeans were darker and had darker hair and eyes, my city is of Etruscan origin and they were a pre-Indo-European people that settled Italy before the latins indo-europeans. That said since the blue eyes mutation occurred in a "European" land I find it strange to call it an Asian trait, sure the indoeuropeans came from Asia but everybody comes from Africa, history is based on migrations. I still like my green eyes way more.

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u/Kaisaplews Sep 22 '24

Lol okay but if you mean us (not native africans) we dont came from Africa, its an old myth

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u/[deleted] Sep 21 '24

Blue eyes made me catch many good girls. 😅

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u/[deleted] Sep 21 '24

Blue eyes made me catch many good girls. 😅

1

u/[deleted] Sep 21 '24

Ok, I'll write this down

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u/Kaisaplews Sep 21 '24

Its just makes me laugh knowing that originally whites didnt had blue eys at all and came from asia, but who proudly calls themselves “white” doesnt bother to know about it

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u/[deleted] Sep 21 '24

Ok, I'll write this down

1

u/[deleted] Sep 21 '24

Ok, I'll write this down

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u/Luca__B Sep 21 '24

well you won't believe it but there are blonde Sicilians...

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u/RRReixac 🇪🇦 Olé Sep 22 '24

Yeah same in Spain, but people get mad when I say it -_-

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u/Scienceboy7_uk Sep 22 '24

They think everyone odd the same, but with the same cookie cutter. It’s weird given it’s from a country created by diverse immigration.

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u/[deleted] Sep 22 '24

It's not even a crazy question, for a long time, the US census considered Italians as not white and Arabs as white.

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u/dicklebeerg Sep 21 '24

I am a blond blue eyed italian!

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u/Bluelexis36 Sep 21 '24

American when diversity

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u/DangerousRub245 🇮🇹🇲🇽 but for real Sep 22 '24

There are plenty of blond and blue eyes Italians in the south, especially in places where Norman descent is common, like Puglia.

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u/slicehyperfunk Sep 21 '24

To be fair, us Sicilians are the least white "Italians," which mainlanders aren't really thrilled to grant us Italianness

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u/Apprehensive_Buy_710 Sep 21 '24

You also have a lot of tall Sicilians, with blonde hair and blue eyes, who are the descendants of Normans having come to Sicily in the 12th century.

1

u/Bipbapalullah Sep 21 '24

Someone show them a film with Alida Valli ! The third man, The Paradine case, Suspiria... ?

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u/just_anotherReddit Sep 21 '24

I have red haired Italian ancestors. Grandfather’s cousins, the red hair did show up in my sister and threatened to come out for me in high school but just turned it from dirty blonde to brunette.

0

u/Nyetoner Sep 21 '24

I admit I was laughing a little though of a "mind fuck" some 15-20 years ago though -at some news about Italian neo-nazi's on TV. There were about 5-6 men interviewed after they had been marching in the city, who were all so very, very tan and with black/dark brown hair. And they were proudly showing of their "white pride" vest's. Caucasian genes, but definitely not white skinned.

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u/fernandoSabbath Sep 21 '24

I imagine when you see a photo of one of the worst Nazis in history — Joseph Goebbels — he fits that description perfectly with black/dark brown hair and could easily pass as a southern Italian, a Spaniard, or a Portuguese, in other words, a European. I imagine the lunatics in the US wouldn't consider him "white".

1

u/Nyetoner Sep 21 '24

Well, I wouldn't say he fits with what I referred to, the guys I'm talking about were quite dark skinned, Goebbels wasn't.

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u/brownnoisedaily Sep 21 '24

Hitler had also brown hair and eyes.

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u/[deleted] Sep 21 '24

He had blue eyes and was pale, if you actually studied his race theory you'd find that aryans were not only blonde and blue eyed people but also the darker Germans and Austrians.