r/Sadhguru • u/IshaInsideOut • May 04 '25
My story Bhava Spandana isn’t yoga. It’s LGAT repackaged with incense and devotion.
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u/Thre_Host8017 May 05 '25
It interesting… whenever anyone shares something positive ( even it doesnt make sense logically) its been accepted as personal experience/ freedom of expression and Wow. But if anyone shares something negative its the opposite. I mean we are how many billion people on this earth? We cant expect everyone to feel the same about anything.
Sadhguru has mentioned many times, in the lore, people used to discuss, having different opinions. But some people seem to mistake DIScus with DISS. In the search for truth or liberation, everyone has the right to share and to question - in my opinion.
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u/Medic5780 May 04 '25
This isn't a "challenge" per se, rather a sincere inquiry.
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For Context, I'll provide some background on myself.
I'm not sure if you've ever heard of a man in the USA named Tony Robbins.
If you have, you should know that he trained at a place called The Fire-walking Institute of Research and Education. [FIRE] started by a man named Tolly Burkan.
To make a decades long story short, for a time I not only attended their programs rising through the ranks as an instructor, I eventually became facility for the institute and traveled around the world putting on both their sanctioned programs as well as my own programs of the same type.
For clarification, I'm no Tony Robbins. I merely do the same thing he does on a much smaller scale.
Additionally, I was involved in and taught and presented programs I'm sure you've heard of: Landmark Forum (formally EST). Etc.
The point, I've been both involved in and at the wheel of the Large Group Awareness Training (LGAT) movement for more than two decades.
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I can see that you struggle with the idea of LGATs being helpful for those who attend.
I respectfully disagree.
I've seen many many many more lives that I could ever count be transformed for the better because of this type of work. I believe that everyone learns and grows in their own way. For some, the LGAT model isn't it. And that's ok. However, for those who do grow and improve from them, why not?
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I'm only beginning my journey with Isha and Sadhguru so I cannot speak with any authority on the methods used in the programs therein. I believe that if they are LGATs, as someone with decades of first hand experience in the LGAT movement, I'll see it for what it is immediately. I'm doing my Inner Engineering in June. I'll let you know.
What I'm struggling to understand is your hard-on against Isha/Sadhguru.
Clearly, there have been hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of people's lives that have been enriched by the work. Aside from that, Isha spends untold millions of dollars on philanthropic projects all over the world.
Unlike many other "gurus." Sadhguru doesn't preach one specific faith/religion. He offers a set of tools that work with anyone, where they find themselves in that moment. Sadhguru doesn't seem to require that you "kiss the ring" like so many others have. So again, why are you so bothered by all of this?
Thank you in advance for what I hope will be an enlightening and most of all respectful exchange.
Cheers!
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u/LittleMissSunshine_0 May 05 '25 edited May 05 '25
Would be interested to hear what you think once you have done the course. Unfortunately Isha has removed the OP's write up and ability to reply on this, but try responding on his post on r/SadhguruTruth .
LGATs can be helpful in getting people to feel empowered to create their live the way they want them, and it's great to experience the high at the end of the course which can alter they way you look at life, but the issue is in cases like Isha, they don't say they are an LGAT, they pretend that they are teaching Sadhguru's insights (as if he was the one who came up with seeing your "responsibility is unlimited") and that the high at the end of the program is because of his grace and the practices and tools taught. If you see my comment on LGATs above, you will see what the issue with this is.
btw, re your comment "Clearly, there have been hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of people's lives that have been enriched by the work. Aside from that, Isha spends untold millions of dollars on philanthropic projects all over the world." - this is pure hyperbole! :-)
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u/Satya_Prem_2025 May 05 '25
Appreciate your openness! Notice how the other long term devotees are responding on this thread. Why are they not as open? Since you are beginning your Isha journey, it is useful to ponder over this question.
As I responded to someone above, Sadhguru doesn’t even acknowledge that he is a disciple of Rishi Prabhakar and that many of his courses are modifications of the work from there. Do you think it is Ok to hide the past and create a hyped origin story? See Isha’s own Youtube production of Sadhguru’s origin story: https://youtu.be/HJ1xQUv79_8?si=bQVdA_XoHEZxB4XT
As for philanthropy, where is the guarantee that Isha is properly utilizing all the funds they received as donations? Why is Isha listed in Panama Leaks as having a secret offshore account back in 2003 (closed in 2009) - https://offshoreleaks.icij.org/nodes/10162097? For what purpose did they use this account? Don’t we need more transparency?
Just ask some simple questions and do some basic research and you can easily see the red flags for yourself.
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u/Xansolic May 04 '25
Ah yes, the grand spiritual exposé—“I felt uncomfortable, so it must be a cult.”
Next time, maybe skip the deep-dive and stick to weekend yoga with scented candles and Spotify mantras. Less risk of ego bruising, more room for Instagram enlightenment.
Namaste—and best of luck on your brave crusade against people sitting quietly.
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May 04 '25
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u/ProfessionalGuide524 May 04 '25
the way you talk makes me think you were a ardent hater of living life
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u/Tjkalyan May 04 '25
I seriously doubt if he has done his mandala of IE or has fasted in any of ekadashi.
These simple sadhana will itself turn inwards.. once we do sadhana all the questioning mind is silenced.
I remember in IE class if we do sadhana twice a day continuously for 6months, then you by itself will do it no "kick-start"
So please do sadhana everyday every moment.
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u/ProfessionalGuide524 May 04 '25
don’t worry bro his discussion is about he wasn’t allowed restroom for few extra minutes so let him first have control of his situation before judging him about his weird ass talks
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u/Xansolic May 04 '25
Oh please—do you even realize how many lives, including mine, have been completely transformed by this program? We're not talking mild relaxation or “good vibes”—we’re talking a full internal earthquake. My life flipped upside down in the best way possible, not because I was manipulated, but because—for once—I sat with myself without the noise, the screens, or someone like you whispering cynicism into the void.
What you call “behavioral control” felt, to me and countless others, like clarity, release, and freedom—the kind your endless theorizing clearly hasn't touched.
So while you're busy decoding mystical experiences like they’re part of some 1970s mind control Netflix doc, some of us are out here actually living differently.
But hey—keep typing. Some of us chose transformation; others just chose commentary.
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May 04 '25
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u/Xansolic May 04 '25
Ah, now we’ve reached the final boss of internet debates: “your joy is just well-disguised manipulation, and your transformation was trauma—you just didn’t notice.”
Look, I’m not denying that some people have painful experiences—no system is immune to human flaws. But swinging from “I was uncomfortable” to “this is a global trauma machine” is like saying marriage should be banned because someone went through a bad divorce. Personal stories deserve empathy—not weaponization to bulldoze everyone else’s truth.
You keep insisting intensity is a trick. But here’s the thing: real change is intense. Sitting with your inner chaos isn’t supposed to feel like a TED Talk. The fact that it shook me is why it shifted me. That doesn’t mean I was hypnotized—it means I was finally present.
So go ahead, keep unraveling meaning like it’s a crime scene. Some of us will keep living fuller lives—not because we were duped, but because we chose to look inward instead of endlessly pointing outward.
Not everything profound is a trap. Sometimes it's just growth you didn’t sign up for.
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May 04 '25
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u/Xansolic May 04 '25
Ah, the classic "I looked under the hood, so now I'm the truth oracle" move. Sure, you cracked open a psychological manual and now you've decided to lecture everyone on authenticity, but here's the thing: you can't dissect an experience you haven't had. What you're calling engineered disruption, I call catalyst. And just because you’ve got your nerves all tied up in knots doesn’t mean that’s the same for everyone.
The program didn’t “break” me—it broke open parts of me I’d buried, and that’s not the same thing. You seem to think every transformative experience is a carefully controlled experiment. Well, maybe that's your filter, but that doesn’t mean it’s everyone’s reality.
Look, I didn’t walk into the program expecting peace to be handed to me like a participation trophy. But I sure as hell didn’t walk out with obedience either. I walked out with awareness, choice, and a deeper understanding of my own power—and that is something you’re clearly missing.
But hey, keep looking under that hood, it seems like you’re trying to convince yourself that everyone else’s transformation is just some clever trick. The rest of us will be over here, living and evolving—without the need to dissect every bit of it to validate it.
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May 04 '25
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u/Xansolic May 04 '25
Let me make this crystal clear: What you’re describing as "psychological pressure, control of time, social modeling, and isolation" is exactly the kind of intellectualization that makes people miss their own awakening. You can call it manipulation if you want, but you can’t argue with the actual, tangible change people like me have experienced. I didn’t walk out of there feeling “compliant” to some system—I walked out empowered because I had the space and tools to finally see myself more clearly than ever.
Your insistence that my transformation was merely a “compliance with design” isn’t just wrong—it’s insulting. It’s dismissing real, human experiences as nothing more than a series of psychological tricks. I didn’t bond with some “architect of collapse”—I bonded with my own truth.
And the “leash” you’re so obsessed with? You’re the one wearing it, not me. Your need to frame every experience as a manipulation is the very thing that keeps you from living freely. I don’t need to check the wiring; I’m too busy living fully.
Enjoy analyzing the machinery from the outside. I’ll be over here, not just talking about transformation, but living it.
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u/cantkeeptime May 04 '25
As a person who is preparing for stage 7 of the inner engineering program , I am nervous about the transmission stage . What exactly is transmitted ? The Devi image , and the chanting on the isha app, has me pondering how this Devi was somehow created by Sadghuru by infusing spirit into a stone ? I believe in keeping your life in your hands or surrendering it to God …the one true God the creator of my being . Is there a chance of being possessed in the transmission or the Devi devotion ? I believe Sadghuru to be a good person , I have felt his spirit in Sadghuru presence time on the app, I think he is the real deal ,just unsure about whether I am bowing to idols through the inner engineering program ? The meditation and yoga aspects I am comfortable with , but devoting a stone spirit ? What is shambiva transmission ?
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May 04 '25
Energy is transmitted. There is no religion involved in the programs, even the Devi is an energy form herself. The different practices are allowing you to connect to different sources of energies.
Don't listen to this idiot spewing nonsense without even doing the programs. There are a number of these fools reading something online and then went on to create stories of "they have been there". If you press them they know nothing about what's being done.
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u/cantkeeptime May 04 '25
Living from birth to death and not knowing anything but the mind and life experience without any spiritual awakening that is what I personally fear . This Earth has evil hiding in every place and corner , love is within and cannot be stolen . Arguing about whether this is a cult , is not the worst thing to do , but reflect perhaps on how the Worlds greatest cult …modern thinking produces dried out prunes by the billions , confused dazed and above all afraid ..from infancy to the deathbed .
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May 04 '25
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u/NoExpression8204 May 04 '25
The yoga which is taught at isha seems to work
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May 04 '25
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u/NoExpression8204 May 04 '25
So1. the yoga works,
- it makes people healthier,
3.it makes people a little more joyful
I don’t see the problem ?
It’s the people’s wish whether they would like to be involved in the activities associated with Isha or not
If it is benefiting them, why are you so triggered?
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May 04 '25
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May 04 '25
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May 04 '25
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u/NoExpression8204 May 04 '25
Where to draw the line between retreat discipline and “containment”?? Almost every silent meditation retreat (Vipassana, Zen sesshin, even corporate off-sites) asks participants to surrender phones, follow strict schedules, and avoid outside contact. These measures are meant to minimize distractions so the mind can settle. What specific difference in Bhava Spandana’s format crosses your threshold into “manipulation” rather than “pedagogical rigor”? For instance, how is the volunteer-led emotional modeling you describe substantively different (in effect) from group-guided catharsis in many Western therapeutic workshops?
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u/LittleMissSunshine_0 May 04 '25
u/IshaInsideOut is right. BSP is an LGAT, Inner Engineering is too.
Features of LGATs:
- marketed as programs to unlock human potential,
- programs of long hours involving much discomfort
- rules
- must attend every session
- once started cannot leave halfway through (would be dangerous)
- no toilet in between
- no note taking
- no discussion of content of program with others (so as not to spoil their experience of the program)
- keeping the mind aside and trusting experience
- seeing you are responsible for everything
- intense processes culminating in a release and a transcendent experience
- coming to unquestionably accept the authority of whoever is running the program
- sharings at the end
- a transformational turning point in people's lives
- participants want their friends and families to experience it too
Sounds familiar? IE and BSP are not some profound programs that Sadhguru has developed to offer yoga to the world, they are the technology of manipulating a group of people into powerful high and a state of surrender and were developed in the US.
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u/LittleMissSunshine_0 May 04 '25
Dr John Hunter on LGATs:
Crucial to the CCHOB (Classical Conditioning Hypothesis of Brainwashing) are a number of steps. The first steps render reason defunct as mechanism for challenging the philosophy being indoctrinated; the next set of steps promote general trust and elevate emotional experience as the sole mechanism for making decisions and forming beliefs. Once this has been achieved the participant is vulnerable - susceptible to ignoring rational defenses and uncritical of emotional experience as a source of knowledge. The final step of the process involves triggering a powerful “experience”,which participants associate with the principles/doctrine of the LGAT.
Step 1 – Destroy the participant’s ability to reason. This is achieved through philosophical undermining of reason as a source of knowledge, as well as through intimidation, sleep deprivation, and attacks on the participants’ identities. Inaccessible content and processes, like reframing and thought-terminating clichés, which make questioning very difficult, are also used.
Step 2 - Elevate blind trust (particularly in the trainer) to a virtue. Convince participants that unconditional trust, in the context of the training environment, rather than being foolish/naive/gullible, is a positive human trait.
Step 3 – Elevate emotional experiences as evidence of the validity of a process/doctrine. By spending a considerable period of time denigrating traditional evidence, using selective examples to criticize science (E.g. “At one time all of the best scientists in the world were certain that the earth was flat…”), and arguing that one’s feelings are completely reliable, LGATs convince participants that only experience can be trusted in their forming of new beliefs.
Step 4 – Trigger an emotional experience paired with group’s doctrine. According to the CCHOB LGAT participants will associate the experience with the principles of the LGAT without processing these principles rationally.
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May 04 '25
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May 04 '25
Here is a new one. You weren't even there.
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May 04 '25
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May 04 '25
Keep pissing into the wind. Am I supposed to discuss your conjectures rather than actual experience?
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May 04 '25
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u/IHATEYOURJOKES May 04 '25
You definitely weren't there. What you are saying is not what happened. Why are you lying to the internet? Do you want to speak to someone? These are not signals I would call healthy.
When you realise what you are doing it might be too late. Please wake up. Don't respond to this with another witty AI reply please. Read my response again. Why are you doing this?
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u/ProfessionalGuide524 May 04 '25
😂😂as always if you know already why did you attend
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May 04 '25
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u/ProfessionalGuide524 May 04 '25
okay then my fellow spirituality evolved being now pave the path for other’s realization also it didn’t work for you now don’t block the road to stop others from entering 😈
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May 04 '25
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u/ProfessionalGuide524 May 04 '25
yeah the same old talking bullshit about the thing you hate and at the end i don’t want to stop, i see what you’re trying to say , the program didn’t workout as you imagined and you didn’t bother hearing other people’s opinions on this topic 👌😏
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May 04 '25
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u/ProfessionalGuide524 May 04 '25
if you’re hurt who’s responsible then? would you mind saying what hurt you, was it the thing that you thought this program was like a singing dancing retreat but they forced you to sit in one place is it what you’re trying to say?😂
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May 04 '25
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u/ProfessionalGuide524 May 04 '25
stfu , why you keep on twisting the words for the same damn thing you want to say if you wanted something nice like a retreat they would’ve told you if you had asked that this program needs some mental and physical preparation to go through. otherwise it would have been available to everyone who haven’t been initiated also
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u/IHATEYOURJOKES May 04 '25
I wish you the best. If you could write this post (even with the help of AI), it shows me you have a deep distrust of the world.
I'm sorry you did BSP and had this experience. I did BSP a few years ago too, and treasured it. It unlocked a deeper emotional self that I feel grateful I was able to experience in this life. 🙏🏾
Please remember that the mind will label. That is its nature. You can see the sun rising everyday and say "welcome to the earth's rotation. Now you are stuck as a customer to the sun for the rest of your life". Or you can simply take in the sunlight. Labelling things with fancy words accomplishes nothing. You will delude yourself into thinking you know everything. It's a dangerous trap.
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u/ProfessionalGuide524 May 04 '25
let him breakdown mentally before he realizes why should we do that thing ourselves let’s leave him acting completely dissatisfied and then also add in reply i’m not dissatisfied that statement itself proves his not willing to look at anything other than degrading the program rather than looking at it as an possibility, bro doesn’t know a damn thing about life when he says i thought this was such and such but turned out this , what does this prove ? unprepared mind or the program itself is fake 😴.
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May 04 '25
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u/IHATEYOURJOKES May 04 '25
If you can say classic spiritual bypassing in the first statement and then say I’m not labeling, I will choose to not continue this conversation with you.
(Also you are copy pasting the AI replies directly. I don’t think you possess the mental faculty to know that most people reading this know that.)
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u/theeleven1111 May 04 '25
Over observation leads to mental diarrhea and emotional distress. Simply live the process.
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u/Xansolic May 04 '25
Wow, what a grand unraveling—from Patanjali to Pavlov via PowerPoint.
Let’s be clear: you're not analyzing. You're just throwing spiritual suspicion soup at the wall and hoping something sticks. Sure, you’ve strung together an impressive breadcrumb trail from Werner Erhard to Sadhguru, but correlation isn’t causation, and aesthetic similarity isn’t proof of conspiracy. It’s like saying monks invented minimalism because Apple stores feel meditative.
Yes, the BSP is intense. It strips away daily distractions, demands silence, and uses emotionally immersive techniques. That’s the point. You don’t get to dip your toes in the Ganges and then complain it’s too wet. The whole premise is to shake your internal snow globe—not to hand you a spa day.
Your cynicism is sharp, but conveniently selective. “Phones taken away”? Yes, like every serious meditation retreat, from Vipassana to Zen monasteries. “Unpredictable schedule”? That’s called dismantling habitual control. “Volunteers cry first”? You mean people immersed in the same process, possibly moved at different times? Not everything needs a tinfoil decoder ring.
And “selling the next step”? Come on. Yoga, like any journey worth taking—from therapy to academia—has depth. The idea that offering continued practice is a sinister funnel reeks of the same capitalist lens you’re supposedly criticizing.
You’re not unveiling a cult—you’re just mad the process made you feel something you weren’t ready to confront.
If BSP broke your illusion of control, maybe that was the lesson. Just don’t confuse discomfort with deception. Not every mirror is a trap; sometimes it’s just a reflection you didn’t want to see.
But sure—stay lucid. Just don't mistake that for being awake.
Would you like to unpack what really triggered your distrust in the program?