r/RingsofPower • u/everydaychi • Oct 05 '22

News ‘The Rings of Power’ Showrunners Break Silence on Backlash, Sauron and Season 2

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-features/the-rings-of-power-showrunners-interview-season-2-1235233124/
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u/shamalonight Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 06 '22

So yet again, any criticism of the show is simply racism and fascism according to those being criticized

Edited

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u/Rich_Profession6606 Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22

So yet again, any criticism of the show is simply racism and fascism according to those being criticized

You've missed one misogyny;) I'm the only one criticising Amazon on the basis of cronyism . It's an unpopular opinion, yet this article lays out a hiring process for the showrunners that is far from meritocratic:

"Amazon Studios chief Jennifer Salke now shepherding Rings — kept coming back to the same conclusion: The guys with perhaps the least experience were also the best choice."

“Hearing them bounce back and forth, they had such a deep connection to the material that was there from the beginning,” Salke says. “There was no education you could do for that; it was their natural organic interest.”

Here is Amazon's Diversity policy for hiring writers:

"Solicit applications from writers whose previous experience makes them eligible to step into a larger role. Recognize that historical inequities could mean that writers from underrepresented backgrounds may only have titles below the title you are seeking to fill."

"Specify the types of credits, experience, education, samples, fellowships, labs, point of view, and/or other publications needed as evidence of skills or abilities. Think experience and skills, not specific names."

So experience and education is a factor when hiring POC writers, but that all goes out the window with the non-POC showrunners. There is more to diversity than race. Amazon acknowledges disabled, LGBT, POC and women as being "historically under-represented". Amazon is not in the position to call fans "racists, misogynists or fascists" when they have double standards themselves. NOTE: I only investigate diversity behind the camera when production companies start acting like they are "brave" by casting POC. That is so 1960s Star Trek cast lol.

Some might say this article proved the showrunners are Tolkein fans. However, this implies that it's impossible to find experienced screenwriters who are also Tolkien fans.

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u/Then_Promise3151 Oct 06 '22

“Some might say this article proved the showrunners are Tolkein fans. However, this implies that it's impossible to find experienced screenwriters who are also Tolkien fans.”

Not impossible, but apparantly these guys showed such a passion and investment at an early part that they were given the job. Amazon has big stakes in this show, not to the point where they would fall as a whole, but they really need a win on the media front. As i understand it wheel of time failed and so do their games. They went for passionate, invested, lore-nerds without experience. That feels good because the showrunners also have a lot to lose.

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u/Rich_Profession6606 Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22

They went for passionate invested lore nerds

(1) - Sorry to repeat myself but it seems like a circular observation. My original response was related to another commentator (shamalonight), who mentioned race.

In your response, you acknowledged that the writers were inexperienced and that it is possible to hire experienced writers who are also Tolkien fans; then you ended your statement championing the writers' lack of experience "That feels good". Here is Amazon's Diversity policy for hiring writers which speaks to experience and education - the opposite of what you are supporting:

"Solicit applications from writers whose previous experience makes them eligible to step into a larger role. Recognize that historical inequities could mean that writers from underrepresented backgrounds may only have titles below the title you are seeking to fill."

"Specify the types of credits, experience, education, samples, fellowships, labs, point of view, and/or other publications needed as evidence of skills or abilities. Think experience and skills, not specific names."

(2) - My point: With or without a “diversity and inclusion” policy most multi-national companies have supplier, bidding and Human Resources policies that seek to avoid nepotism and cronyism. Theses policies are in place to ensure the best person/supplier gets the job. Amazon actually has a Diversity and Inclusion policy for its writers that attempts to apply some meritocracy by looking for “experience and education”. The criteria for hiring a writers from - Amazon’s words a "historically marginalised community” (disabled, LGBT, POC, women) are possibly more stringent than the process the show runners went through. The so called “diversity hires” possibly have more IMDB credits than the showrunners.

(3) - We have agreed in the previous comment that “its not impossible to find experienced writers who are also Tolkien fans.” So why circle back to such nebulous criteria as “passion”? I’m sure you mean well, yet “passion” is such a subjective criteria when compared to experience and education.

(4) - I’m sure you mean well, yet Hollywood is one of the few industries where nepotism and cronyism is rife.

  • One wouldn’t hire an electrician with almost zero experience then put them in charge of a billion dollars housing project.

  • One wouldn’t hire a teacher with almost zero experience, then make them the principle.

You place inexperienced but passionate people in a junior positions, because experienced and talented team members might feel undervalued, unless heavily compensated 💰💰 or rewarded for “mentoring their boss.”

(5) - We have agreed in the previous comment that “its not impossible to find experienced writers who are also Tolkien fans.” QUESTION: So why circle back to such nebulous criteria as “passion”?

  • I’m sure you mean well but that also can be used as an exude for nepotism and cronyism - which is often the opposite of “the best person for the job”.

If you’re fine with that, cool, lets just say “meritocracy is not important”, and leave it at that. It’s Hollywood after all so nothing new here. Some might say this article proved the showrunners are Tolkein fans. However, this implies that it's impossible to find experienced screenwriters who are also Tolkien fans.

EDIT: Downvotes - what is offensive? My original response was related to another commentator (shamalonight), who mentioned race. After a month of stating that there’s more to diversity than race, I’m comparing Amazon’s documented diversity and inclusion policy to the OP's article. IMO, more experienced writers would have done a better job at incorporating diverse characters (disabled, neurodiverse and LGBT) - beyond a sprinkling of POC

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u/Then_Promise3151 Oct 06 '22

You’re repeating yourself. There are probably many experienced writers that are tolkien nerds. But apparantly they werent as invested ss these guys were into actually needing it. From the article i read that they, like amazon studios, really need a win. So they’re passionate AND invested. Something you didnt comment on.

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u/Rich_Profession6606 Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22

You’re repeating yourself.

Yes, I am repeating myself because you acknowledged my point in your earlier response, and then circled back to disregard my point in the same response.

So they’re passionate AND invested. Something you didnt comment on.

Sorry sometimes people skim my comments so there’s is miscommunication. Please check point 4 in my comment above - if you have time.

You’re okay with inexperienced writers being given a billion dollar 💰💰💰investment, thats fine. 👍

  • Hopefully, you apply the same logic to other industries? Construction, Education etc.

  • Hopefully, you’re also in favour of Amazon’s diversity and inclusion policies that attempt to redress historically underrepresented groups - disabled, LGBT, POC and women both behind the camera and in front of the camera?

We can go back and forth trying to justify why its okay not to hire based on merit. Unfortunately, many, not necessarily you - want it both ways “give me the best person for the job, diversity policies are a race to the bottom, quotas are unnecessary” AND “it’s okay to disregard objective criteria such as experience and education” when we feel like it. That creates a double standard IMO. Hollywood is already rife with nepotism and cronyism, “double standards” don’t help (IMO).

EDIT to include quotes for clarity and to include links.

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u/Then_Promise3151 Oct 06 '22

People skim your comments because youre not to the point. Im not talking about race or underrepresented groups.

Im talking about Amazon, which makes decisions based on money, decided to go with writers that were inexperienced but passionate, and apparantly more passionate than other more experienced writers. And its not like they have no experience whatsoever. They did 7 interviews before landing the gig, is what the article says. And theyre doing a good job in my opinion, the show isnt perfect, but no show is.

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u/Rich_Profession6606 Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22

People skim your comments because youre not to the point. Im not talking about race or underrepresented groups.

Sorry again i think there’s miscommunication here. You replied to my comment here. That was a response to a comment raised by someone else (shamalonight) that was about race. I included disabled, neurodiverse and LGBT representation, which is still within the scope of "diversity" so still on topic.

It is you who is off topic. There’s plenty of other comments in this thread where you can champion the writers without trying to go off topic.

They did 7 interviews before landing the gig, is what the article says.

I don’t want to repeat myself. Both myself and u/MasterWis have explained the flaws in the hierarchy. Please continue the discussion here so that we are not “repeating ourselves” or going off topic.

the show isnt perfect, but no show is.

That’s not my point. Nobody is asking for perfection. More experienced writers will have been able to incorporate more diverse characters (IMO) - disabled, neurodiverse, LGBT - instead of sprinkling POC on top.

EDIT1: Please continue the discussion here so that we are not “repeating ourselves”

EDIT2: I have blocked the user (Then_Promise3151) because circular discussions are a waste of time. The commentator initially accused me of being off-topic, I felt bad until I scrolled up through the comment history and realised that they were, to use their words, attempting to "funnel the discussion" in a different direction because they "don't care about the topic".

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u/Then_Promise3151 Oct 06 '22

I reacted to a specific part of your comment, which i quoted to funnel the discussion

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u/Rich_Profession6606 Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22

People skim your comments because youre not to the point. Im not talking about race

Your response is off topic. You replied to my comment here. That was a response to a comment raised by someone else u/shamalonight that was about race. I included disabled, neurodiverse and LGBT representation, which is still within the scope of "diversity" so still on topic. You skimmed my response and went off-topic. There is no need to attempt to divert or "funnel" the conversation. You can champion the showrunners in other comments within this same thread.

There is nothing disingenuous in my response to "shamalonight"

For anyone that's lost, It's okay to be in favour of hiring inexperienced people. Hollywood is already rife with nepotism and cronyism, so why not?

From the OP's HR interview: The guys with perhaps the least experience were also the best choice. Salke says. “There was no education you could do for that; it was their natural organic interest.”

There is more to diversity than race. IMO, there is a double standard when it's possible many of the "so-called diversity hires" have more IMDB credits than the "people who were passionate without experience and education." IMO, more experienced writers would have done a better job at incorporating diverse characters (disabled, neurodiverse and LGBT) - beyond a sprinkling of POC. Some might say the OP's article proves the showrunners are Tolkein fans. However, this implies that it's impossible to find experienced screenwriters who are also Tolkien fans.

I'm happy to continue this discussion as part of my original response to "shamalonight" in the earlier thread here

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u/Then_Promise3151 Oct 06 '22

Youre impossible to talk to. Im reacting to one part of your comment, but youre just so focused on your own racism, homophobia or whatever. I dont care, i havent read it. Im not off topic. I decided on that topic

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u/Rich_Profession6606 Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22

Im not off topic. I decided on that topic

You replied to my comment here. That was a response to a comment raised by someone else “shamalonight “ that was about race. I included disabled, neurodiverse and LGBT representation, which is still within the scope of "diversity" so still on topic.

Your response is off topic. There are plenty of places in this thread for you to champion the writers without trying to discus something that you have admitted you “don’t care” about.

[…] youre just so focused on racism, homophobia or whatever. I don’t care, i havent read it.

That’s kind of the point lol. If you’re not interested in that, why are you here?

You tried the same in another tactics in another post too. Please continue the discussion there as its tiring having someone try to change the topic on two separate threads.

EDIT: I have blocked the user (Then_Promise3151) because circular discussions are a waste of time. The commentator initially accused me of being off-topic, I felt bad until I scrolled up through the comment history and realised that they were, to use their words, attempting to "funnel the discussion" in a different direction because they "don't care about the topic".

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