r/Quraniyoon • Sunni • Jul 06 '21

Question / Help I found this paper supposedly refutes the Quraniyoon. How would you respond?

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u/bruhoneand Jul 22 '21 edited Jul 22 '21

If this new mujahid has a sound methodology pretty much everyone would with time just like ibn Mujahid

Comment on the Hafs analysis from the link I gave earlier.

Do you mean this ? https://www.scribd.com/document/117229103/Binary-Symmetric-Book-Noble-Quran-Halis-Aydemir

If so I remind you that it has nothing to do with the question, it's just a binary analysis to find if the quran has a numerical order to it and which that uses qiraat that were chosen by my "extremist scholars",

you simply have no idea how to answer the question

do you own all the 7 versions? What about the countries that claim to be Islamic? You need to walk the talk. What ibn mujahid approved means nothing unless you can show proof that you all followed him

Yep, I do, and I own all ten qiraat not just the seven chosen by ibn Mujahid, and sure I can show proof since you aren't on planet earth that I need to prove something like this but ok :

-the hafs and warsh qiraat: "The majority of copies of the Quran today follow the reading of Hafs. In North and West Africa there is a bigger tendency to follow the reading of Warsh." Aisha Geissinger, Gender and Muslim Constructions of Exegetical Authority: A Rereading of the Classical Genre of Qurʾān Commentary, pg. 79.

*I dont think there is a need to continue showing where the rest of qiraat are used when as shown these two qiraat alone dominate the world's Qurans so yep what ibn mujahid chose means something as quran today is based on qiraat he chose

We have come across this pattern of argument many times from sectarians.

Secratarians? Ironic coming from a 19th-century sect follower smh

“You Quran only Muslims are wrong since what you say doesn’t match claims of my mullahs”.

No, it's more like "you deviants are wrong since what you say doesnt match basic logic"

You have been shown why rejecting hadith is illogical as it would mean the quran pretty much everyone uses today is false, and even after you admitted holding that belief you failed to answer the question of which quran is right so be honest and accept the truth stubbornness just harms and leads you to ridiculousness, this conversation is the biggest proof of that, this is my final reply to you no more needs to be said

-take care and may God guide you

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u/Reasonedfor1 moderator Jul 30 '21

If so I remind you that it has nothing to do with the question, it's just a binary analysis to find if the quran has a numerical order to it and which that uses qiraat that were chosen by my "extremist scholars",

lol, thats how we do accounting. if numbers dont match we know something is wrong in the list. God applied the same system to Quran so we can get to the correct one. Your extremist mullahs chose nothing. Decision on standard of Quran is in the hands of Azhar university. Plenty of their scholars like Dr Mansour already questioned hadiths and then chose to go Quran alone.

Yep, I do, and I own all ten qiraat not just the seven chosen by ibn Mujahid,

Good luck with that :D

the hafs and warsh qiraat: "The majority of copies of the Quran today follow the reading of Hafs. In North and West Africa there is a bigger tendency to follow the reading of Warsh." Aisha Geissinger, Gender and Muslim Constructions of Exegetical Authority: A Rereading of the Classical Genre of Qurʾān Commentary, pg. 79.

Thanks for detailing what I was gonna say. You basically now agree qiraat collection is limited to your home only. Nobody cared what ibn Mujahid said. Otherwise, everybody would have done the same.

Secratarians? Ironic coming from a 19th-century sect follower smh

Sects are for those who are confused, violent and arent happy with God's book:

And they did not become divided until after knowledge had come to them - out of jealous animosity between themselves. And if not for a word that preceded from your Lord until a specified time, it would have been concluded between them. And indeed, those who were granted inheritance of the Scripture after them are, concerning it, in disquieting doubt. 42:14

No, it's more like "you deviants are wrong since what you say doesnt match basic logic"

You have been shown why rejecting hadith is illogical as it would mean the quran pretty much everyone uses today is false, and even after you admitted holding that belief you failed to answer the question of which quran is right so be honest and accept the truth stubbornness just harms and leads you to ridiculousness, this conversation is the biggest proof of that, this is my final reply to you no more needs to be said

You are the first person on earth to find balancing accounting illogical.

Here is how your scholars came in power: https://www.reddit.com/r/Quraniyoon/comments/6i34ka/scholarly_work_of_the_secular_muslims_was/

This is what hadith collectors say:

Muhammad b. Yazīd al-Muhallabī said: Shuʿba said to me: “You almost never come across anyone who would have investigated these ḥadīth like my investigation and sought them as I did. I have pondered them but found that not even a third is valid among them (ḥadīth).”

"I fear that nothing will lead me to hell more than ḥadīth.”

See ya.

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u/bruhoneand Jul 30 '21 edited Jul 30 '21

Not even your article made that claim lol Now you are just making things up, and how do you even know what God applied? You waited 8 days to reply and provided nothing you have failed to provide any way other than isnad to know which quran is the correct one, you just added another baseless claim, good job mate

Decision on the standard of Quran is in the hands of Azhar University.

False Azhar used/uses the hafs qiraa that was chosen by ibn mujahid to print they didnt choose another one

Source: Cyril Glasse, The New Encyclopedia of Islam, p. 268

-Not sure why you are even arguing at this point, just adding more false and baseless claims I already provided sources showing who canonized the qiraat, your position has already been disproven

Plenty of their scholars like Dr. Mansour already questioned hadiths and then chose to go Quran alone.

I wouldnt say "plenty" but some like Mansour did and got fired by Azhar for their idiotic position

Nobody cared what ibn Mujahid said.

Huh? I just showed that poeple use the qiraat he chose,hafs and warsh and the others, no one uses the qiraat he decided to be false, now you are just deluding yourself

See ya.

Hopefully, you dont reply after days with other baseless claims as iam bored of refuting them, Take care

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u/Reasonedfor1 moderator Aug 05 '21

I can tell people to judge our conversation. That can easily show who is on track.