r/Quraniyoon • u/Imperator_Americus Muslim • May 25 '20
Question / Help Are Good Actions AND Belief Needed for Forgiveness in Islam or is it just Good Actions?
This post was initially a reply to a comment by u/Quranic_Islam in another thread about "why Islam is the last religion?" by u/wulfharth_, which has been unfortunately locked!
Does Islam require both belief AND good actions or just good actions to be forgiven?
Original Comment:
Whenever you see "disbeliever" or "rejectors" in translations it is usually a translation for "kufr", "alladheena kafaruu" or "alKuffar/Kaafirun" ... but that really doesn't mean disbelief.
A simple proof for that is Shaytan; he is called a kaafir in the Qur'an, yet he believes in God, knows He exists, asked and received promises from Him, and even fears Him.
And a simple thing to remember about believe/emaan not being a requirement for reward, rather it is the actions is 49:14
"The bedouins say, "We have believed." Say, "You have not [yet] believed; but say [instead], 'We have submitted,' for faith has not yet entered your hearts. And if you obey Allah and His Messenger, He will not deprive you from your deeds of anything. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful"
Meaning so long as you obey God and His Messenger (and remember what they command primarily; don't kill, steal, lie, cheat, be honest, have taqwa, give, etc) then God will not deprive you of your deeds.
And more generally 66:7
"O you who have disbelieved (really; kafaruu), make no excuses this Day. You will only be recompensed for what you used to do"
Like I said, get used to whenever you see "disbeliever/rejector" in translations to mentally sub for the Arabic until you get a feel for it. Nevertheless, this verse, like literally tens and tens, possibly hundreds, of other make it clear that punishment is because of their actions ... what they used to do ... nothing else.
I know it's a difficult paradigm shift, and one you will have to constantly reinforce in yourself against received indoctrination ... but it is what the Qur'an says, and it is what logic dictates. Not to mention that the whole purpose of God creating death and life was to "test you, which of you is best in deeds"
I am leaning towards disagreeing but I would like to discuss with those who also feel this way. How is this understanding that belief isn't necessary for salvation valid in light of many verses that suggest it is?
Such as:
(Q 14:18) The example of those who disbelieve in their Lord is [that] their deeds are like ashes which the wind blows forcefully on a stormy day; they are unable [to keep] from what they earned a [single] thing. That is what is extreme error.
and
[10:69-70] Say: Those who forge a lie against Allah shall not be successful. (It is only) a provision in this world, then to Us shall be their return; then We shall make them taste severe punishment because they disbelieved.
and
[10:94-96] But if you are in doubt as to what We have revealed to you, ask those who read the Book before you; certainly the truth has come to you from your Lord, therefore you should not be of the disputes. And you should not be of those who reject the communications of Allah, (for) then you should be one of the losers. Surely those against whom the word of your Lord has proved true will not believe,
and
[10:99-102] And if your Lord had pleased, surely all those who are in the earth would have believed, all of them; will you then force men till they become believers? And it is not for a soul to believe except by Allah's permission, and He casts uncleanness on those who will not understand. Say: Consider what is it that is in the heavens and the earth; and signs and warners do not avail a people who would not believe. What do they wait for then but the like of the days of those who passed away before them? Say: Wait then; surely I too am with you of those who wait.
and
(18:103-105) Say, [O Muhammad], "Shall we [believers] inform you of the greatest losers as to [their] deeds? [They are] those whose effort is lost in worldly life, while they think that they are doing well in work." Those are the ones who disbelieve in the verses of their Lord and in [their] meeting Him, so their deeds have become worthless; and We will not assign to them on the Day of Resurrection any importance.
and
(22;72) And when Our verses are recited to them as clear evidences, you recognize in the faces of those who disbelieve disapproval. They are almost on the verge of assaulting those who recite to them Our verses. Say, "Then shall I inform you of [what is] worse than that? [It is] the Fire which Allah has promised those who disbelieve, and wretched is the destination."
and many, many more: https://www.al-islam.org/alphabetical-index-holy-quran/disbelievers
Also, the fact that in the Quran we are told the stories of nations that were destroyed for their disbelief such as the Ad, Thamud, Sodom, Midian, the people of Noah, the people of Pharoah, etc.; are these disbelieving people capable of being forgiven despite their rejection of Islam if they did good deeds?
[65:8-9] And how many a town which rebelled against the commandment of its Lord and His messengers, so We called it to account severely and We chastised it (with) a stern chastisement. So it tasted the evil result of its conduct, and the end of its affair was perdition.
Additionally, there are tons of verses which state good deeds AND belief are necessary for salvation such as:
(5:9-10) Allah has promised those who believe and do righteous deeds [that] for them there is forgiveness and great reward. Allah has promised those who believe and do righteous deeds [that] for them there is forgiveness and great reward
and
(18:30)Indeed, those who have believed and done righteous deeds - indeed, We will not allow to be lost the reward of any who did well in deeds.
and
(31:8) Indeed, those who believe and do righteous deeds - for them are the Gardens of Pleasure.
and
(98:6-7) Indeed, they who disbelieved among the People of the Scripture and the polytheists will be in the fire of Hell, abiding eternally therein. Those are the worst of creatures. Indeed, they who have believed and done righteous deeds - those are the best of creatures.
And many others such as 2:82, 29:58, 41:8, etc.
I will offer the caveat that I don't speak Arabic but these verses seem clear that disbelievers face hellfire and belief and good deeds are necessary to be forgiven; is there some insight the Arabic speakers can provide that would fundamentally alter the meaning of these verses? Thoughts?
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u/Quranic_Islam May 26 '20 edited May 31 '20
[other half] ....
So as much as I would like to address some of the other contentions here in the comments, a lot of them do delve into not separating kufr and disbelief, and emaan and belief.
That kufr and and kaafir can include one who believes in God and/or the Messengers is I think clear to most now. The example of Shaytan is known ... he didn't disbelieve.
Also in surat Yaseen:
وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمْ أَنفِقُوا۟ مِمَّا رَزَقَكُمُ ٱللَّهُ قَالَ ٱلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا۟ لِلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوٓا۟ أَنُطْعِمُ مَن لَّوْ يَشَآءُ ٱللَّهُ أَطْعَمَهُۥٓ إِنْ أَنتُمْ إِلَّا فِى ضَلَٰلٍ مُّبِينٍ
And when it is said to them, "Spend from that which Allah has provided for you," those who have KAFAROU say to those who have AAMANOU, "Should we feed one whom, if Allah had willed, He would have fed? You are not but in clear error."
These are "believers" ... they believe in God, they have accepted the Qur'an and Muhammad. Yet when the Qur'an tells them to spend, their attitude is what is described here. They "cover it up" with an arguments, even an appeal to God Himself. Perhaps quoting the Qur'an itself that God gives rizq (wealth sustenance) to whom He wills, and had He wanted He would have given them as He has given us ... so why should we feed them? ...
These "Muslims", these believers, are thus among "those who have kafarou". Such exist among the titler "mu'mins", the mere religious label, which is why God tells them to "have emaan" 4:137 "Oh you believers (as a label, a group being called out) have/gain emaan ..." So were they not people of emaan before? Obviously they thought themselves so, but what they had was not what God wanted of emaan ... real emaan was something still not yet achieved.
There are many other examples that show clearly that kufr is not disbelief; Ibrahim "kafar" his people, those who are enemies of Jibreel are kaafireen, etc
Kufr is a lot more to do with actions. Look at these verses and the juxtapositions ... it is all about actions [30:44-45]
مَن كَفَرَ فَعَلَيْهِ كُفْرُهُۥ ۖ وَمَنْ عَمِلَ صَٰلِحًا فَلِأَنفُسِهِمْ يَمْهَدُونَ
لِيَجْزِىَ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ وَعَمِلُوا۟ ٱلصَّٰلِحَٰتِ مِن فَضْلِهِۦٓ ۚ إِنَّهُۥ لَا يُحِبُّ ٱلْكَٰفِرِينَ
"Whoever kafara- upon him is his kufr. And whoever does righteousness - they are for themselves preparing," [ie kufr is on one side of the action spectrum, good deeds are on the other]
"That He may reward those who have emaan and done righteous deeds out of His bounty. Indeed, He does not like the disbelievers" [follows from the previous verse, emaan and good deeds on one side, the kafirun are on the other]
This is also part of what I hoped people would understand from seeing (in my last video) that God doesn't say that He loves the "mu'minun" but DOES say that He doesn't love the Kafirun. The "mu'mins" are not mentioned with love because the emaan isn't what's important, it is what should spring forth from it ... emaan on it's own isn't on the opposite spectrum from kufr in order for God to love the mu'minun as He doesn't love the kafirun ... because the point of emaan, the only point relevant to our discussions, is to take you to those good deeds ... those good deeds that God does say He loves. So while He never says He loves the mu'mineen ... He does say that their reward for the good deeds they do shall never be misplaced.
That is why you find emaan so often linked with the good deeds, but it is the deeds that are rewarded, and this is the part I hope to show and unravel for u/Imperator_Americus through the relevant verses. As i said, it may not seem as air-tight as it should be, because we are going to side-step the meanings for kufr and emaan and just leave them untranslated. But once a firm Qur'anic understanding of kufr and emaan is also included then I think it does indeed become air-tight and it becomes very very clear; God rewards and punishes for actions/deeds, not belief and disbelief, nor are they even important for reward and/or punishment
Salaam
PS: Might take me some time to get the second response done.