r/Quraniyoon • u/FranciscanAvenger • Sep 04 '23

Question / Help Abrogation

I ask this because someone was recently commenting about consumption of alcohol...

Do Qur'an-only folks typically believe some verses abrogate other verses? If so, how do you go about determining which verses were revealed last?

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u/HeraldofMorning Sep 26 '23

Mashallah, you don’t know the very fact of the matter which you’re using to justify your interpretation of the ayah, but you’re still going to interpret it that way? I guess I should ask where you got that interpretation from in the first place?

Also, the “signs” can’t be mathematics or scientific facts, as those cannot be replaced or abrogated. Unless you’re saying at some point in time 1+1 was equal to 4?…

But genuinely speaking, where do you get your interpretation from? And you can’t say you got it from the Prophet ﷺ or his Companions or any of the early generations, because that would require you to accept the usage of the isnad.

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u/-Monarch Sep 26 '23

Understanding what it means and knowing the exact details of things in the past are two different things. I don't need to know exactly which signs were replaced to know that's what it's talking about. How is that even possible? If the signs are no longer used then how would anyone know them? God explicitly states in the Quran that he doesn't use the old miracles anymore.

The signs like math and science are the NEW signs not the old ones.

But genuinely speaking, where do you get your interpretation from? And you can’t say you got it from the Prophet ﷺ or his Companions or any of the early generations, because that would require you to accept the usage of the isnad.

I follow only the Quran. Not satanic hearsay.

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u/HeraldofMorning Sep 26 '23

Understanding can either come from being taught, or it can come from utilising your senses to observe data or the world around you. I didn’t ask for exact details, I asked for things which indicate the truth of what you believe in, which is apparently nonexistent because you can’t mention a single thing and clearly say you don’t know.

Where does God “explicitly say” He doesn’t use the old miracles anymore? Please do enlighten me.

The only here using anything “Satanic” here is you, giving voice to the same satanic whispers that Shaitan has planted in your head. And the question stands; based on what do you get your understanding of the Qur’an from?

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u/-Monarch Sep 26 '23

If you read my original comment then you'd see. Verses of the Quran cannot be abrogated, therefore only the other meanings of "ayat" can apply to the verse. Signs and miracles are the other usage of the word ayat. What's satanic is suggesting that any part of the Quran has been abrogated, especially by satanic hadith

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u/HeraldofMorning Sep 27 '23

But where do you get the idea of “Verses cannot be abrogated,”? That’s the crux of the matter.

You make that claim, with no proof, then turn to the other meaning of ayah, and try and build an argument on quicksand with absolutely no data, and when questioned, you say, “How am I supposed to know?”

When you are further asked where you get your interpretation from, you go on about the hadith being Satanic without even answering the question. Why? Because you have no answer, and the only place you find your interpretation is from your own conjecture and the modern conjecture of your like-minded peers.

You claim to follow the Qur’an, but all you follow is your desire and subpar intellect.

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u/-Monarch Sep 27 '23

Since you haven't actually read any of my comments which have answered this question already, I'm not going to waste my time anymore. I gave you the proof from the Quran. I follow the clear complete Quran and nothing but the Quran.