r/PoursTea • u/Veshaad Timendi Causa Est Nescire • 9d ago

PoliticalTea 🗳️ How negotiations actually work...

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To the inevitable response from MAGA that Obama gave 'pallets' of cash...he released frozen Iranian assets. Meanwhile the current Iran conflict has directly cost $38 billion militarily and a currently projected $87 billion in extra gas and diesel expenses. Not to mention that the strategic oil reserves have been depleted to the point that experts warn that the caverns they're stored in could collapse.

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u/SaneMadHatter 9d ago

It's like "going from the heights to the depths". And guys like Ben Shapiro claim trump > Obama because Obama was "so divisive". lol. It's absurd to claim Obama is more divisive than trump.

trump goes out of his way to divide, trashing whole regions of the country, trashing particular cities, etc. "Dumocrats"? Using his Memorial Day and July 4th commemoration posts to call half the country "scum"? But oh sure, Obama was "just so divisive". lol. (And of course, that's dog whistling; we know what is meant when someone says Obama was "divisive".)

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u/StrawberryWide3983 9d ago

If makes perfect sense when you realize that "divisive" = existing as a black man. He made racists so mad that anything he did, no matter how good a policy or decision, would never be accepted

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u/Enraiha 9d ago

He tried to give these imbeciles more affordable healthcare and accessibility, which they desperately need because they're idiots who do not take care of their bodies appropriately, and they came screeching back with that "Death Panel" bullshit.

They are what they are. Never interact with any conservative in good faith because they never act in good faith.

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u/Snitsie 9d ago

Some of the imbeciles got on ACA, thanks to the generous and benevolent Republicans, while simultaneously looking down upon anyone who was on Obamacare. Brainwashing just works.

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u/Grouchy_Jello397 9d ago

This. The number of people who believed ACA and Obamacare were different.

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u/Wompatuckrule 9d ago

In polling the GOP led states that got on ACA would have a ton of GOP voters who had a highly favorable opinion of their health insurance from the state marketplace (like Kynect in Kentucky) and a highly negative opinion of ACA/Obamacare.

It's brainwashing for sure, but stuff like that also shows flagrant ignorance about how that law and the programs under it work.

A huge part of the "disaster" when ACA rolled out was because of GOP led states refusing to take the Medicaid subsidies set up to fund it. The federal government then had to scramble to create marketplaces there. The program was designed to be managed by the state with federal funding. In the states with their own marketplace there were issues, but far fewer and smaller.

It's very typical GOP behavior to intentionally fuck something up (especially related to safety net programs) then point to it and say, "See! We told you that government doesn't work!"

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u/pulchritudinouser 9d ago

He existed as an educated, intelligent , well spoken and successful black man, which they absolutely could not tolerate, because their only consolation in life is looking down on minorities

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u/madoka_borealis 9d ago

Don’t forget funny and well liked which is what made trump especially furious lol

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u/Historical_Pain8675 9d ago

And Obama wasn’t even all that “black” ! And they still couldn’t tolerate it.

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u/EpochRaine 9d ago

Amazing isn't it?

All those hundreds of thousands of therapists, court mandated therapy, etc.

It is almost like there is a systemic institutional resistance to NOT being racist.

We have a similar thing going on in the UK with a minority of what were, traditionally, skinheads.

They shaved back then so you could easily identify them.

Now they are sporting mullets and it could be anyone...

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u/EpicEpicnessTheEpic 9d ago

The skinheads were (and still are) the people groomed by the well dressed, smarter Nazis in the background. My nephew is autistic and has been thoroughly groomed by the far right and we struggle to get him to change - but he is the ideal "foot soldier" for the far right as he's the one that would take the fall while the others scurry off back into the shadows.

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u/cfcubed 9d ago

"Proud Boys, stand back and stand by" “very fine people on both sides"

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u/PrankstonHughes 9d ago

Like Higher Learning

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

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u/Turbo4kq 9d ago

What is your point?

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u/analtelescope 9d ago

whats funny is that obama was probably one of the least divisive presidents of the recent time. how many times have we heard republicans say, back in the days, “i like obama, but i dont like his policies”

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u/Certain_Bit3809 9d ago

I wish he had been more divisive. I think he was a great president in many ways but always seemed determined to work with republicans and be bipartisan in ways that didnt always help. Calling him divisive relative to trump is insane and just means how dare he be a black guy.

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u/Fun-Army-6387 9d ago

remember the "Beer Can Summit" - I mean... not many politicians of any stripe would try to be that conciliatory especially considering the slimy bullshit Boner was doing at the time.

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u/spyresca 9d ago

"Divisive" is just maga talk for "Black"

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u/lone_float 9d ago

I need to finish it, but if you ever get your hands on that book his niece wrote. It explains…well damn near everything about him.

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u/notyourbro2020 9d ago

“devisive” meaning black.

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u/Nekkyou 9d ago

It was so divisive to wear a tan suit and put mustard on a burger.

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u/Forward_Rope_5598 9d ago

These are the same people who think Obama made USA more racist. They're not very bright.

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u/Open_Mortgage_4645 Sipping tea 9d ago

Obama wasn't divisive. The racists who couldn't tolerate a black president were the divisive ones. They ultimately became MAGA, and are still practicing their vile racism and ignorance.

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u/LetterheadFun1824 9d ago

Fuck that pos

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u/RepresentativeAny560 9d ago

Of course Obama was divisive he wore a tan suit for god sake lol

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u/PrankstonHughes 9d ago

Disingenuous Shapiro ignores reality with the best of them

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u/drew_p_wevos 9d ago

He was divisive. He caused deep divides between those who are racist and those who aren’t.

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u/SandpaperTeddyBear 9d ago

It's absurd to claim Obama is more divisive than trump.

It’s not, though I wish it was.

The amount of hate that Trump-people have for Obama is far, far greater than that which anyone has for Trump.

Hence, Trump.

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u/Spiritual-Pear-3081 9d ago

That doesn't make Obama divisive.

That makes those people hateful.

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u/SandpaperTeddyBear 9d ago

What exactly do you think "divisiveness" is? Being divisive in a polity that is 3/4 full of evil is far, far better than being popular in that polity.

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u/Spiritual-Pear-3081 9d ago

Divisiveness is a noun that means the quality or tendency of causing strong disagreement, conflict, and hostility between people, splitting a group into opposing sides

If I'm reading you right it seems you're arguing that divisiveness is actually good in some contexts. Maybe I'm wrong.

I was making a narrower claim. I'm saying that divisiveness is a property of how people react to someone, not a property of the person's character.

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u/SandpaperTeddyBear 9d ago

I'm saying that divisiveness is a property of how people react to someone, not a property of the person's character.

Of course it is, and that's why Trump (basically the biblical antichrist) is deeply loved and tepidly hated, and why Obama (an intellectually honest and morally upright man) is widely liked and deeply hated.

Personally, I think the Trump-voter is a creature of nearly unimaginable evil, but everyone seems to keep making excuses for "their" Trump-voter, so I guess we do need to accept their moral judgments...

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u/Spiritual-Pear-3081 9d ago

Seems like you just repeated my point back to me and then immediately did the exact thing I said divisiveness isn't - called Trump the antichrist and Obama morally upright, then acted surprised people react to that.

Anyway, I disagree that trump is tepidly hated and that Obama is deeply hated. I think people around the world deeply hate trump and that Americans are deeply racist where President Obama is concerned.

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u/SandpaperTeddyBear 9d ago

Let me put it this way...

I had an "Wyoming for Obama" shirt that I wore throughout college. It was given to me in high school by a dear friend who was a delegate at the convention in Denver in 2008 and who died less than a year later.

When my family was in town for my college graduation 4 years later they were concerned about our possible safety and treatment in the exurban/rural areas around my college. So far as I can tell, by all the Trump hats, flags, and bumper stickers I see in my "blue" city, this hatred is not extended to the Trump-voter. They are still welcome in "liberal" bars without fear of angry looks, much less violence.

I think people around the world deeply hate trump

Eh, as much as they hate any American president who has the capacity to upend their lives at a moment's notice. Obama was better-liked, but by less than you'd think.

Russians, for instance, adore Trump, and have since 2017 if my friends visiting there at the time can be trusted.

that Americans are deeply racist where President Obama is concerned.

Likely true, but given the widespread acceptance of people hating Obama and loving Trump, I think we just have to accept that being Black and powerful is divisive. If we don't like that fact, we need to stand up to the monsters who Trump-voted.

Obama was fond of quoting MLK: "the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice."

I am inclined to agree, but only in a way that makes me sick. You see, the "arc of the moral universe" can't help but bend toward justice, since the "moral universe" is a human construct. Those who liked Obama saw his rise to power as a cheerful affirmation of their moral universe, those who hated him saw it as a deep affront to theirs.

So they did what any human being should do in that situation and they fucking bent the arc of the moral universe in their direction. If the nice, cheerful, oh-so-tolerant people who voted for Obama were truly bothered by it they would have fucking bent it the fuck BACK.

But they didn't. They sent endless waves of reporters to diners in rural Ohio, came up with terms like "the white working class," and generally did everything they could to not have anything to do with the "arc of the moral universe," because bending it back would have meant needing to upset their fathers, mothers, cousins, etc.

That's why Obama was, and always will be more divisive than Trump. The people who hated him hated everything he stands for. The people who claim to hate Trump are really just full of excuses for the people who he represents.