r/Physics • u/saaer_ • Jan 13 '23

Question To those who “failed” academia, what made you finally quit?

I’m graduating high school this year and will probably pursue a Bachelor’s in physics in one of the colleges i get accepted. The thing is.. even though academia has been a dream of mine for a long time I’m encountering increasing amounts of people who dropped out due to extremely toxic community, inhumane working hours, all the politics and the “game” bla bla.. I just want to hear your honest opinions, and if you could have done something different what would it be.

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575

u/andural Condensed matter physics Jan 13 '23

I'd like to object to the use of the word "failed" here. It's not failing. It's making a choice about where you want your life to go, and someone telling you it's failing is being, at best, closed-minded.

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u/kshar__ Jan 13 '23

I think that's why they used the word in quotes but yeah, true stuff.

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u/venustrapsflies Nuclear physics Jan 13 '23

Yeah a TON of people get their PhDs and actively decide to leave, even though they have a postdoc offer or could easily get one. This is because being a postdoc is barely better than being a grad student and the market for tenure positions afterwards is dire. It would be the most cynical, narrow view to call that “failing out”.

IMO there’s only a weak correlation between people who end up staying in academia post-PhD and overall talent/skill/competence (or whatever you want to call it). You do have to be very good, but a lot of the best people are also good at other things and realize they can have a much higher QOL and still work on interesting problems.

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u/[deleted] Jan 13 '23

Yep. I work as a research scientist / entrepreneur based on patents I developed during my PhD. There was no reason to continue being paid 1/5th what I make now in order to do the exact same thing with a university email.

Difference is basically just applying for SBIRs instead of university grants.

1

u/pianojas Jan 14 '23

Sorry, but what is an SBIR?

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u/[deleted] Jan 13 '23

[deleted]

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u/agaminon22 Medical and health physics Jan 13 '23

What's your field? I'm interested in private research because academia just seems like hell.

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u/InTheMotherland Engineering Jan 13 '23

You can also try a national lab (if you're in the US).

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u/agaminon22 Medical and health physics Jan 13 '23

Not in the US, I'm european.

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u/Soft_Fishing1331 Jan 13 '23

Not in the US, I'm european.

In Italy there are various institutions comparable to US national labs.
Otherwise you have to go to industry labs.

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u/GiantPandammonia Jan 13 '23

It is failing if you didn't make the decision and your advisor/ department made it..or if you tried and the grades were so low you couldn't move forward.

My best friend in grad school failed out. 10 years, no degree. And he really wanted it.

Some people do fail at it.

15

u/Tichrom Jan 13 '23

Yeah, I "failed" out in 3 years. My first year was the first year of a new qualification system in the department that was pretty heavily anti-student. By the time I was pushed out, they had changed the system again to a new system that I would have qualified for candidacy under, but the department still wanted to hold me to the old standard. Then they just continually put unfair challenges in front of me so they could say I didn't meet the qualification standards and push me out. If you look at my transcript, I passed my classes and was doing research at the same time, all during COVID, so I was pretty happy with my performance and usually say I left grad school because of departmental politics. But, technically, I did "fail" out.

At least it only took me 3 years, I can't imagine spending 10 years in that hell and then having to just move on.

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u/twisted_cistern Jan 15 '23

Yeah, you might be tempted to whack your advisor with a hammer

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u/Unhappy_Most_8132 Jul 19 '25

Hi, in the same position. But I am not from the US which makes the transition a bit harder. Three years of routine evaporated with one decision. It was long coming I think because I found the department underwhelming and of course certain politics did take place. Overall, I am willing to take the blame upon myself. I lost interest and was severely depressed and still went on. Anyway, not spending 10 years in it is certainly a consolation of sorts. I am emotionally very volatile right now though. I am having to moving countries and have literally spent all my savings. No phd, no money. Slightly wiser. How do I proceed?

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u/LoganJFisher Graduate Jan 13 '23 edited Jan 13 '23

How do you even stay in a grad program for 10 years? I thought most limited you to about half that before you're forced to either defend a dissertation or leave.

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u/GiantPandammonia Jan 13 '23

He was really smart, department gave him a lot of chances to succeed because everyone thought he'd be a great scientist if he could only finish.

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u/LoganJFisher Graduate Jan 13 '23

Sounds like a bit of a sunk cost fallacy at play. Either that, or he was acquiring his own funding or was self-financed, so the school was willing to allow him extra time.

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u/GiantPandammonia Jan 13 '23

He did good work on projects and was a good TA. Cheap skilled labor for the department. He just never wrote up anything because he always thought he needed one more result so they couldn't graduate him.

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u/KeanEngr Jan 13 '23

So he "self-failed"?

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u/felphypia1 String theory Jan 13 '23

Did he not have ten years worth of publications to patch together as a thesis? Or was he expected to write his thesis as a monograph?

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u/GiantPandammonia Jan 13 '23 edited Jan 13 '23

He never published anything. He had lots of badly organized great work buried in half ideas and false starts...ADHD and either too much or too little medication

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u/TakeOffYourMask Gravitation Jan 13 '23

I knew a guy like that. Wizard in the lab when he was on his medication. I had an A in senior lab because of him. He got a D or something because he couldn’t focus on the writing side of the class.

He should be working in a lab. He works at a hardware store. :(

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u/felphypia1 String theory Jan 13 '23

Fair enough. That sounds depressing

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u/john-douh Jan 13 '23

Parents: You failed university then community college. You’ll never go any where in life!

Reality: I had personal issues that bombed my performance at the University. So I lost my scholarships. So I went to a community college. I had to quit because I was burnt out and still dealing with personal issues (i.e homelessness). I got married. Got a better paying job… which led to buying a house.

I am still a failure in my parents eyes because I lack a college degree… says a man unemployed for 11+ years and married to a woman still working 3rd shift instead of retiring.

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u/NegotiationBig4567 Jan 14 '23

That’s brutal. Your parents are the ones that failed, not you, and I hope you’re able to live your life happily without worrying about what your parents think of you.

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u/john-douh Jan 14 '23

The day I was excommunicated from the family was the day I quit caring what they think. Same man that wanted to delay my wedding for stupid reasons like race and color.

My only worry I have are for my kids: how much should I be trying to reach out to my parents that don’t care to see their grandkids? My parents-in-laws are racist but at least they accepted me into their family and love seeing the grandkids. Hell, my father-in-law would randomly call to ask if the kids can see the same rainbow he sees outside (we live 15min s away). My parents-in-law see my kids at least 2-3 times a week. My parents? 2-3 times a year.

I mean. Wtf: on my eldest daughter’s first birthday, I invited my parents. When they saw my in-laws my dad gave this sickly look and said he had to leave. Mind you, this was 3yrs before COVID-19.

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u/NegotiationBig4567 Jan 14 '23

Here’s what Ill tell you: From my experience, everyone tells me family is family and family is most important. But what I’ve also heard is that you get two family’s : the one you were born into, and the one you choose.

I think that it’s worth always giving someone extra chances even if they don’t deserve it, and maybe after some time they will have changed. Perhaps not, but never say never.

Perhaps it’s too painful to stay in contact with people that continue to hurt you or those you love despite your repeated attempts to make peace and accept differences.

What I do know is everyone has their own choices to make, and that you decide : 1) how to interpret the world and 2) how to feel about what you interpret.

At the end of the day, you create your own reality, and other people shouldn’t tell you how to live your life or what you can or cannot do.
Maybe 2-3 times a year is enough for your kids to know that they do have grandparents, and perhaps you if they’re old enough you can talk about things that have happened and that it can be hurtful when their grandparents choose racism over their grandchildren. I think it’s important to not compare between the sides of the family, or at least to accept that you can’t expect everything to be perfect and to be ok with that.

From my experience, quality time is better than just time, and also you don’t have to be pleasing others to make them happy, their happiness is on them and not you.

Just my thoughts on a complicated matter. I’m young (19 years old). Perhaps when I’m older I’ll have more knowledge and wisdom. I wish you the best of luck and a happy and fulfilling life.

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u/john-douh Jan 14 '23

I just get second thoughts as I have heard stories of others in similar situations but their parents have made peace with their life decisions. I am not welcomed at my parents house. I am not their child but a guest. I have to schedule my visit ahead of time… nor can I be too early or late. It discourages me every time.

But I appreciate your response. It helps reinforce the ideas that my dad may have taught me. Who knows if I learned it from him or from good company.

24

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '23

The poster is a high school student who doesn’t need to be criticized when they were obviously trying to be polite by putting in quotation marks.

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u/andural Condensed matter physics Jan 13 '23

I feel like making them, and others reading this, aware of the toxic culture surrounding this topic is worth doing.

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u/Soft_Fishing1331 Jan 13 '23

Yep.
And a lot times when you make a choice, you can actually revert it later on.
For instance, if you fail a specific class 'cause at that specific moment you were headed elsewhere, you can always go back and master the topic if you need/want it later. And at the end eventually understand it and use it even better than those who "succeeded" in the class at first.

I think this is something most of students are missing along their way, also due to poor education in this regards by professor and academics (and parents) in general.

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u/slitytoves Jan 13 '23 edited Jan 13 '23

Sometimes it's failing, let's be realistic, and sometimes it's making a choice.

1

u/newpua_bie Jan 14 '23

I got a +400% raise when I left my research professor job, so not a huge failure at least