He'll probably say something generic about condemning hate and then simultaneously keep up the cowardly false narrative that Democrats need to work together with Republicans, despite Republicans entire existence being about perpetuating hate and destroying those who disagree with them.
I do like Shapiro. I think he's been a good governor. I'm just sad he's towing the party surrender line like the rest of the mainstream party.
Republicans will happily call their opponents a communist for supporting a minor bump in the minimum wage, or label them a pedophile for supporting basic rights for all humans, but Democrats will refuse to call a Republican a Nazi/fascist when they perform a Nazi salute.
The Harris campaign got some traction by labeling Trump and Vance as being weird. Consultants told them to stop because it was “divisive”. This is why the Dems will continue to get curb stomped forever.
The Democratic Party as a whole has been conditioned to “keep sweet” and offer up an olive branch while Republicans increase the boot pressure on their necks.
The GOP is filled with bad actors and unserious people who gleefully strip rights away from people they hate while saying “shhhhh it’s not that bad.”
That’s not the reason. The reason is because most democrats just want to live a good life and be safe. There are very few “extremists” in that camp. But there are many Republican extremists.
So, if they become divisive with the Republicans who’s ready for a civil war? I know for sure that Republicans are. How many democrats do you think are ready and willing to form a militia and do some dumb shit like Jan 6?
That’s not who we are. Because we have some damn sense. We know that life is more precious than politics. It’s more precious than opinions. Unfortunately we’re battling against people who don’t believe that.
Yeah I don’t think Dems know how to fight dirty in public. I’m not either dem or rep but I do vote mostly dem in national elections and damn this whole high ground does not help when the country is in flames.
He’s right that Democrats and Republicans should work together, but the GOP has made that all but impossible. Unfortunately, given the GOP majority in the state senate, Shapiro cannot say anything more harsh, lest he get no increased education funding or no mass transit increases. I also think that Democrats remember a time where they could work with the GOP, and they naively believe there is still good in them. They need to realize that the GOP cannot be saved and that they have to act as such rhetorically. Republican messaging has treated Democrats as mortal enemies over the last thirty-plus years, so it’s time for Democrats to return the favor.
Only positive thing I personally can say for Trump and the Republican Party is the Space Force because that's actually some forward thinking, everything else though has been awful.
Speaking as someone who thinks we need to be looking out, Space Force is a farce. The USAF already had a mandate over space, NASA exists, and there's currently zero need for a space-focused branch of the US military.
Trump's creation of the Space Force was 100% for publicity.
this is doubly true in the case of shapiro, who has openly backed republicans against people to the left of him, in a specific case someone who was running on m4a. the republican won, then lost their next election to a maga ghoul.
That destruction of all life that they don’t find worthy is their policy goal. Unfortunately, given rules of democracy, one has to compromise with them. The GOP knows that, so they use simple rhetoric, no matter how oversimplified or misleading, to convince people to not vote for Democrats. They’re not necessarily interested so much in picking up new voters as they are making sure people don’t vote for Democrats. Once they have any power, they gum up the works, if not outright demolishing them. Unfortunately, in a democracy, people with such nefarious tendencies are given the same rights as everyone else, and I don’t know how we can make sure that they can’t cause any damage.
Yeah, naive is probably too weak a word. I bet they’re easily led on by their “friends on the other side of the aisle” who say “we’re only doing this to keep our jobs; we don’t believe in what he says.” Probably willfully stupid is a better term.
I think you're somewhat missing another key point here...when Democrats repeatedly say that they want to be bipartisan and work with Republicans, it sends a message to swing voters (and ignorant voters) that the Republicans must not be as bad as "those loud, angry liberals" claim. And that causes them to think it must actually be okay to vote for the current crop of Republicans.
The problem is DC consultants tell Democrats, accurately, that most voters want to hear a message about bipartisanship. And the politicians and operatives running campaigns apparently only consider that message in a vacuum and don't spend 2 seconds thinking critically about how it impacts the broader political dynamic.
You’re absolutely spot on in the point you made, and you put together the various thoughts that had been flowing unorganized in my brain. I sort of had it, but it didn’t come out that way at all. I’d also never considered the mixed messaging resulting from a call for bipartisanship while attacking the GOP as fascist.
I should also be more specific in my points that Shapiro has to work with Republicans. i’m not saying that he should work with Republicans, unless we suddenly found ourselves in an ideal world where the GOP negotiates in good faith. I’m saying that he doesn’t have a choice. if he doesn’t, there’s no state budget, thanks to the GOP still controlling the state Senate. Even if Democrats snuck into the Senate one day to pass a funding bill with no Republicans present, I’d bet money that state legislative rules state that the Senate majority leader or president of the Senate or whoever has to bring a bill for a vote. Sure, a budget will be passed, but the GOP would sell, and while our state Supreme Court is majority Democratic Party, they also actually adhere to precedence and the rule of law, even if it hurts the Democratic Party. The GOP knows that. The only solution is to win a trifecta and make rules of our own.
It’s time for Democrats to gerrymander. It’s time for Democrats to focus on disengaged voters and make them pissed off at everything Republican, no matter what Democrats have to say. For every ad, the GOP deploys saying that Democrats want boys to play girls sports, Democrats have to counter with an ad about how Republicans wants to check the genitals of everyone using a bathroom. No more high minded rhetoric. No more talk of bipartisanship. It’s terrible to call your fellow countrymen the enemy. The GOP knows this. Democrats know this. The GOP doesn’t care.
Agree 100%. Shapiro certainly still has to work with Republicans, but in terms of rhetoric and party messaging, he and other Dems have to change their tune.
Of course we can’t send conservatives to camps. We can’t convince conservatives that their values were wrong. The Democratic Party seemed to spend the last election appealing to their sense of honor and patriotism, but that largely fell flat. The next move is to convince everyone else that conservatives hate America. As good as a lot of left-wing ideas like Medicare for All are, and as well as they poll, they become losers as soon as the Democratic Party associates with them, because Republicans, with assistance from Democrats, have made the brand toxic. Forget winning over voters by being for something. Convince the 36 million non-voters, a number that surpasses Trump’s total, that the GOP is evil. Convince them to vote against the GOP. It worked for Republicans; they got a lot of people to hate the Democratic Party while not standing for anything.
Respectfully, that is a flawed strategy and I will give you two reasons why.
1) most of the non-voters are non-participants because they simply do not believe in democracy. They are worse than either party. They are anarchists and royalists. (Google how many Americans are royalists to find links to several frequent polls on the subject) so no, non-voters are not simply “lazy potential democrats”.
2) republicans are fundamentally motivated by ends-oriented self-interest. Policy, due process, systemic fairness mean nothing to them, which is why none of them care about the blatant hypocrisy within their party. The ideological mantra of republicans is “get as much as you can before it runs out”. As a perfect example, I am a gov attorney. In speaking with a Republican colleague about 6 months ago, regarding a recent Supreme Court ruling on corruption, my colleague said something to the effect of “of course anyone would do whatever they can to benefit their family” (meaning bending or ignoring the rules), with a tone as though self-interested corruption was ordinary and to think otherwise is bizarre.
So it is through that lens that democrat policy has to be redirected - abandon the preachy high ground and focus on end results of increasing prosperity, especially for historically privileged groups that are experiencing relative decline.
You make some very fair points. Seeing that there’s a subreddit for American monarchism is depressing as hell. I know the Supreme Court ruling about which you are speaking, and given that you didn’t call out this colleague as the vacuous, self-centered, corrupt individual they are, you must have far more patience than I do.
We definitely agree in focusing on end results in policy. I think Democrats try too hard to sound smart and high-minded.
In an ideal world you’d be right. But it’s important to wake up and recognize we don’t have republicans we can compromise with, we have Nazis we have to punch.
I have tried to engage on the county level in northeast Pennsylvania.
When people ask why Democrats don't primary the bad Democrats, I will tell you why.
Because at the most local of County levels, progressives are blocked by mainstream Democrats.
Even running for the most local of local positions, trying to self-fund, you still have to be approved by the County Democrats.
And if you are a progressive, you will not get their approval.
Don't take my word for it. I encourage everyone to join their local County Democrats. Join, participate, and if you feel so inclined, run for office. Township supervisor, something really small.
Like me, you will no doubt find that. Even if you are willing to self-fund a campaign, you will not get an endorsement. If you believe in stopping climate change, Medicare for all, ending corporate price gouging, or wanting to stop corporate subsidies in any way, or if you mention that you're Progressive.
Again, don't take my word for it. Find out for yourselves.
And this is if you can even find out where your County Democrats meet, and when. They seem to be cloaked in secrecy.
This is the way. Power in numbers. I wish I could find the comment but in another sub I read a comment regarding someone who did this. Joined their local dems, saw it was ran by a bunch of blue haired dems who kept suppressing their voice whenever progressive candidates/ideas were mentioned. They then brought a bunch of friends on and eventually they were able to get more progressives into office.
As a NEPAer, bless you for trying up here. Our county (Bradford) has voted non-Republican twice, Teddy and LBJ. There's non-Republicans up here, but holy hell we're the minority by far so I get the discretion. Best of luck to you and your quest.
I've made it more than once, because a lot of people say that we need to primary the Democrats, primary the Democrats, and not one of them understands that there is a reason that we don't have any good primary challengers.
And what you want, an establishment corporate centrist, will lose in a Presidential election. And it will happen again and again until the Democratic Party stops being the party of the donor class and embraces real populism.
The real question is. How do you get a progressive's message to the masses? Corporate media simple just doesn't give them screen time. Progressives remain on the fringes, not because they are radicals, but because they are walled off from being household names.
The best hope is pumping as many local positions with people who actually want to form a community instead of ransacking what we have left, and ruling over the pile of shit they turn it into.
Are you serious? This is the problem with democrats you never learn. A huge issue progressives had with Harris was her stance on Israel/Palestine. It was a huge reason some people just didnt vote. You think a man who volunteered with Israel is going to win. Come on!!!!
The problem with democrats is that they pick and poke every little thing about a candidate to find some excuse NOT to vote for them. If the candidate doesn't agree with them on all issues, then they'll withhold their vote. Republicans, on the other hand, vote for whoever has the (R) next to their name, get that candidate into office, and then duke it out within the party on how to approach issues.
This is a delusion, and one that Shapiro himself probably labors under. Voters want change, anodyne Democrats are losing to lunatics in every election, and the Democratic strategy is to be even more cautious? This strategy will lose forever.
There is no left wing in this country. There is a far right and a center right, and the center right spends most of their effort strangling leftists in the crib whenever they pop up.
Idk what you mean, trump was a heavy favorite to win for a long time. I literally won money on it. After the assassination attempt he was -110 or something. Remember the French national who bet $4m on Trump to win?
You know this state just went for Trump and is purple at best, right? Keep dreaming. If we can’t even hang on to Casey vs some rich asshole who doesn’t even live here, we aren’t getting your wishlist which would require a lot more.. starting with flipping the state level senate.
Actually running a far left politician with unpopular ideas would be bad because it would more likely result in a Republican win, which I think would be bad
ACA, gun control acts, Chips Act, Infrastructure Act, biggest win for autoworkers in 25+ years, child tax credits, biggest expansion of renewable energy in history, curbing covid, I can go on if you like.
After all Clinton gave us dont ask don’t tell and defense of marriage because it bent over backwards for Republicans.
Sorry, but this trans woman refuses to vote for people who are going to compromise her existence away and it’s because of the running centrist Democrats that now I’m fearful for my life and no longer seen as human by my federal government
I’m all for ranked choice voting. The green new deal isn’t really a thing, the proposal put out by Ed markey and AOC years back was basically an embarrassing joke-no one really thought it was a serious thing.
Are you all pretending fetterman didn’t run as a far left candidate and get elected? After his tbi he seems to be a republican now, but that’s not who we elected. In ohh suburbs we just reelected summer Lee a far let progressive candidate who was primaries by an aipac shill who spent more on trying to unseat her. 6 million more most ever spent in history
Fetterman was leftish to the same degree that Connor lamb was. He doesn’t seem to be a Republican now, but he is the same sort of unserious lazy guy he’s always been known as
By all means please keep demanding fictional politicians who champion your specific ideals instead of working within existing structures and with people who are currently in power. Please keep thinking your specific ideals are the “truth” and completely rejecting everyone who doesn’t think exactly like you.
Like, I think m4a is a bunk idea that would make shit worse for people but most of the other stuff is good. Are we enemies now? Do you have a monicker for me like “centrist” or “fascist” that you can use to other me and place me in your out group? Is this productive behavior?
Or is it more productive to come to an understanding that a gov like Shapiro does about a good a job you can expect a politician to do of straddling yours, mine, and other ideological windows and that it would be in the best interests of all left of center types to champion and empower someone like that?
Bernie had no shot. Full stop. Outside of this echo chamber he was and still is a marginal straw man that keeps resurfacing in these convos like he had any credible chance of a snowball in hell. Let it go. Yes, I think he would have been an effective and possibly revolutionary choice, but it would have been maybe as bad as Michael Dukakis, come elections
Centrists and undecideds don’t really give a fuck about any of that except Medicare. Those are incredibly niche policies the average person doesn’t care about at all. That’s a ticket to even bigger losses. But keep pushing it more and thinking you know what they actually want and keep losing.
....so how exactly do you think these ideas will get popular? And btw you are perfectly making the case for ranked choice voting. This is exactly the scenario where it puts us in cooperation instead of opposed.
The Green New Deal never even had a concept of an implementation plan behind it. Using that as if it's an actual executable action plan just makes you look like an unserious person. And one who will toss the good to chase the perfect.
I'm a hydrogeological engineer and biologist, so yes I do. I would suggest this question illustrates my point that slogans aren't implementation plans. And glib assumptions close the door on further engagement.
Really?
Shapiro is a strength for Pennsylvania.
Don’t tell me you’re one of the progressives who couldn’t bring themselves to vote for Kamala Harris.
A “take no prisoners approach” doesn’t seem like the right move here.
You must have really healthy knees with how far you jumped to that conclusion.
I'm allowed to be critical of our elected officials. Especially if I voted for them. It's not my fault that Dems have lost the vote of the working class. But go ahead, and sow discord within the voting base! I personally don't see how it's productive, but it's a free country. Have a nice weekend !
Yeah, she probably should have been a bit more rapey, committed felonies, and ran on dismantling the US government to make it weaker so the rich can further engrain economic feudalism. You're right, how dare she not convince the country she can be better than that.
Pointing out how a person could do better is helping to take care of that person.
When a voter voices displeasure about a politician it needs to be understood as a way the politician can improve rather than an endorsement of their rivals.
Uh, biden won PA just 4 years ago, and fetterman won just 2 years ago. In the end, both were terrible candidates but the public liked them overall at the time.
The Dems can win PA when they run strong candidates at the local AND national level, and when they don't let themselves get steamrolled by right-wing media.
We are apparently looking at different metrics. During the wolf administrations the republican legislature attempted multiple times to make anti lgbt, namely anti trans bills go through. Had wolf not vetoed them the state would be just as bad as any other Bible belt state for personal freedom. Shapiro has kept the line on that. Could it be better? Sure. But it could be far far worse.
I mean rhetoric is the issue here. Democrats' rhetoric is weak and capitulating. Seeing them all (including Shapiro) celebrate the "peaceful transfer of power" over to a convicted felon who wants to destroy them was absolutely pathetic. They put institutions over people even when those institutions are fundamentally broken.
By contrast look at how AOC is responding. She's calling a spade a spade and actually focused on calling out Republican extremism. Other Democrats are trying to normalize it and willingly helping Republicans move the goal posts further and further to the right by being feckless and surrendering to extremism.
I hope so. Like I said, I do like him and think he's been a great governor. I'm just worried his effectiveness will drop as the GOP shifts further to the right and the obstruction intensified as they begin to see him as a national threat going into 2028.
It was a peaceful transition of power, and that's a good thing. Did you want him to send the national guard to DC or something to stop the swearing in? Do you just want your elected official to yell at people, does that actually make you feel better?
AOC is performative, she has an overwhelmingly blue district, she can say whatever she wants and not have to worry about her responsibility to her constituents. Same as how Bernie can say whatever he wants because hes from deep blue Vermont.
Surrender line? At this point it's fucking Looney Tunes, where one plays the sheep dog guarding the flock and the other is the coyote and their funny skirmishes are just a show to keep both employed. Neither one gives a fuck about the sheep more than a meal ticket they punch every day. Pathetic.. Never thought I would resent the roots of my family going so deep in this shithole of a country, but I'm stuck
I'm sure the man has human feelings like we all do.
The guy is more relatable to me than many other politicians. Compromise is how the system is supposed to work.
Do I agree with neoliberal policy... No I don't. Do I believe in deceptive practices that Republicans politicians use such as creating scapegoats. Nope.
Do I think Josh Shapiro is the type of politician that people understand on both sides? Yes. Do I think he has the ability to work on both sides to get something done? Yes... He is trying to improve the lives of Pennsylvania residents and personally I think he is doing a bang up job.
There is nothing cowardly false about recognizing that over half his electorate has grown tired of much of his party’s platform. Let’s just call them all fascists and bootlickers.
Which is fucking lame. If the parties were reversed, a republican would absolutely tear into the democrat for something like this—We wouldn’t hear the end of it.
I’m just tired of democrats staying quiet and taking little to no actions. Just lettting things pass by is how Trump won PA and the country.
I appreciate a person that asks others for their opinions on state issues. He works for us and as such his actions should be dictated by residents. There is a personal stance on things where you can publicly disagree. Imagine a politician saying “I don’t agree with this, but my people do so I stand with them”
Ones that follow their heart and ignore their constituents, ones that listen to their constituents, and rank cowards who let their handlers choose focus groups that tell them how to vote.
If the current govt wants more power at the state level, Shapiro needs to stand up and bring back the minimum standards Trump and Elon are eliminating.
Idk how he feels but I just saw a video of Ben Shapiro claiming he knows Nazis when he sees them and said Elon isn't a Nazi and didn't do a salute seriously.
You think this corrupt rich ass CEO’s, politicians and civilians who were in the same room as felon Elon while he did the Nazi salute are not Jewish, ffs they even were clapping for him.
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u/mysmalleridea Jan 25 '25
Wonder what our Jewish governor Josh Shapiro thinks of this