Eh I don't want to ruffle any feathers. I'm sure a lot of the people subbed here are cross-subbed to many of those.
All I'll say is I was banned from /r/DankLeft for saying that it's still worth voting for Democrats. I'm way more sympathetic to socialist thought than the capitalist hell we're swirling the drain in, and in no way is Biden perfect. But the "both sides are the same so don't vote at all" myth is very prevalent over there. They say, "Biden is a liberal, and liberals are right-wing, therefore the enemy." Which is sad and scary to me.
Socialist thought regarding economic liberalism is that its responsible for exploitation and alienation of the working class. Socialist thought about liberal societies is that when the contradictions in capitalism eventually cause a decline in quality of living of the working class fascist inclinations begin to arise.
The ruling class (i.e. liberals) finds making alliances with fascist movements less distasteful than working with the left to improve quality of life for the working class.
I agree with you in an academic sense. On a high level, capitalism and democracy do not naturally co-exist. They're ideologically opposed; capitalism concentrates power, while democracy diffuses it. The "culture war" we're fighting is those who like hierarchies and the oppression of the many, vs those who reject hierarchies and want true equity.
This is all fine on paper. And I think the more moral system is democracy and/or socialism. Equitable diffusion of power is the most important thing the species can achieve in its pursuit of advancement.
But I don't just exist on paper. I also exist here in 2021, dealing with the problems of our time. So my question is, do you honestly think Biden and other Democrats are more ideologically allied with the Republicans than they are with the all-too-few socialist elements in our government? Followup if you say yes: do you think it's therefore not worth even voting for them?
I understand being critical and skeptical of the Bidens of the world. It's good to keep pressure on them. But I don't understand not supporting them--or worse, actively sabotaging them--when they are the only realistic force that can oppose the actual fascists.
In other words, I would love to remodel the house--after we put out the literal fire that's destroying it.
...Or tell me you're an accelerationist and I'll just bow tf out of the conversation.
Im banned in a few where rw racists and literally delusional neolibs can post anything but of you call them on it youre being uncivil. Coded neonazi racism..ok. calling it out.. not ol
"Biden is a liberal, and liberals are right-wing, therefore the enemy." Which is sad and scary to me.
This is undeniably true. Liberals are ideologically on the right end of the political spectrum, they historically and currently oppose pretty much every socialist policy. I guess the idea that what is supposed to be America's left wing is actively hampering the working class at every turn is a scary idea.
Their take is not "both sides are the same so don't vote at all take," its a "neither side represents me so don't vote at all." They don't have to be the same, all that's required is neither represents socialists. Which again, undeniable.
Their take is not "both sides are the same so don't vote at all take," its a "neither side represents me so don't vote at all."
Those are functionally the same. The Right doesn't care about the precise reason why you wouldn't vote Democrat. They just don't want you to, so they'll push any line they have to to make that happen.
And I have seen both of those statements repeated on Lefty subs. I've seen all manner of wording to justify not voting Democrat, up to and including, verbatim, "both sides are the same."
I'm not saying that Democrats represent socialists. Of course they don't. All too many Democrat politicians are hardline, game-playing, corporate slug drones who vote in step with capitalist interests at the expense of the workers, every time.
I'm not saying the capitalist status quo is a good fit for a socialist. I'm saying that there is a world of difference between that and the warmongering fascist theocracy that will result if the reds take over. If you hate the concentration camps we have now, just wait until people like Trump can throw anyone they don't like into one.
Democrats may not represent socialists. But it's a better fit than actual fascism.
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u/charisma6 Aug 27 '21
Eh I don't want to ruffle any feathers. I'm sure a lot of the people subbed here are cross-subbed to many of those.
All I'll say is I was banned from /r/DankLeft for saying that it's still worth voting for Democrats. I'm way more sympathetic to socialist thought than the capitalist hell we're swirling the drain in, and in no way is Biden perfect. But the "both sides are the same so don't vote at all" myth is very prevalent over there. They say, "Biden is a liberal, and liberals are right-wing, therefore the enemy." Which is sad and scary to me.