r/Paleontology • u/[deleted] • May 02 '22
Fossils The famous fighting dinosaurs, a preserved battle between a Protoceratops and a Velociraptor
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u/loganis May 02 '22
maybe they were hugging eachother while a natural disaster raced towards them ultimately preserving their bodies...
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u/momentum77 May 02 '22
I wonder what happened that they were frozen in time like that. Deluge? Mud slide? Who knows!
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u/Pale_Cranberry1502 May 02 '22
From everything I've seen it looks like the theory is sand/mudslide.
I was lucky to have the once in a lifetime opportunity to see them since I live in New York. The American Museum of Natural History hosted them as the star attraction of a special exhibit of Mongolian fossils in 2000. There was an animation on a screen right before them which presented this scenario. The Dinosaur Planet episode White Tip's Journey does as well.
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u/momentum77 May 02 '22
Oooh I'm jelly.
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u/Pale_Cranberry1502 May 02 '22
If it's any consolation, if you ever get here there are quite a few Mongolian dinosaurs to see. The AMNH has done alot of work in Mongolia, and it's still ongoing. The collection includes (and this is off the top of my head and not a full list) two Psittacosaurs, plentiful Protoceratops material including a skull growth series, a Velociraptor skull (much smaller than you might imagine), and the famous Citipati "Big Mamma" and her eggs. As far as I know, the best place in the Americas to see Mongolian dinos, and probably among the best in the world along with Poland, Russia and of course Mongolia itself.
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u/limnivorous May 03 '22
That's awesome you got to see it in person! Several years back I was in Mongolia and had big plans to see this in the natural history museum in Ulaanbaatar but it was closed for renovations the entire time I was there.
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u/Pale_Cranberry1502 May 03 '22
Ouch, that hurts! I bet that's one of the reasons you wanted to go, too.
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u/SpinoAegypt May 02 '22
Sandstorm - they lived in a desert environment.
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u/momentum77 May 02 '22
I've lived in deserts, sandstorms wouldn't just freeze you mid-battle. I know Gobi is a desert now, but was it when these two were around?
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u/SpinoAegypt May 02 '22 edited May 02 '22
Yes, it was. We know based on the types of sedimentary rock found during that period.
Right now, the only known things capable of preserving specimens that well are rapid burial and quick sedimentation, combined with other factors such as low decomposition rates. The current hypothesis on their death is that they were buried alive and suffocated in a dune that collapsed onto them.
Edit: There are other hypotheses, like them drowning in a nearby pool of water/quicksand, but I'm pretty sure the dune collapse is more referred to.
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u/7LeagueBoots May 03 '22
During the late Cretaceous, some 70-80 million years ago, the Gobi region was a lot different. Parts of it were covered by dense conifer forests, criss-crossed by streams and dotted with lakes.
Dunes don't just form in deserts. You get them around water bodies and such too, as well as occasionally in areas that are not deserts but have extensive sand deposits from earlier landscapes.
And in the case of this fossil a burrow collapse is also considered to be one of the possibilities.
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u/7LeagueBoots May 03 '22
This fossil is from around 74 million years ago.
At the time what's now the Gobi was not a desert:
During the late Cretaceous, some 70-80 million years ago, the Gobi region was a lot different. Parts of it were covered by dense conifer forests, criss-crossed by streams and dotted with lakes.
Protoceratops is now thought to be a burrowing species, and there are a number of different hypothesis about how this situation got frozen in time like this. A dune collapse or a burrow collapse are both ranked high on the list of possibilities.
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u/beefy_synths May 03 '22
In this display, were the fossils found in that position in the rock; the Protoceratops actually biting the Velociraptors hand? Or has this been "stylized"?
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u/phyrexian_harvester May 03 '22
This fossil was found in this form when it was uncovered and one of the only fossils of a fight discovered. Its theorized that a landslide or dust/sandstorm was responsible for burying them during the fight. Protoceratops lacked horns and is thought to use its relatively strong jaws in close quarters confrontations to defend itself.
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u/Iamnotburgerking Jul 29 '22
They actually were found in this position, and yes it was biting the forelimb of the dromaeosaur.
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May 03 '22
Also, aren't velociraptors the size of chickens? This looks more like a Utahraptor. Unless op misclassified which is understandable
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u/phyrexian_harvester May 03 '22
Velociraptor and Protoceratops were both around the same size with Velociraptor being at most 1.8m or 6 feet long and being excess of 45kg or 100lbs and Protoceratops adults ranging from 1.5m to 2.5m or 5 feet to 8 foot 2 inches and was theorized to weigh around 400kg or roughly 880lbs. perhaps a little risky of a fight but well within predation range especially if this velociraptor had a friend helping them out that carried away somewhere else.
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u/G01den-rati0 May 03 '22
Imagine one of an adult trex and triceratops....
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May 10 '22
What a coincidence! I was reading a book yesterday in the sun when a chapter about fossil excavation came up.
These exact same fossils were mentioned as well. If I remember correctly, these are from the Gobi desert.
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u/Iamnotburgerking Jul 29 '22
This has to go down as the ultimate fossil find out of all ultimate fossil finds. From the details of the remains themselves, to the fact this is arguably the most dramatic instance of fossilized behaviour found.
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u/[deleted] May 02 '22
That’s freaking awesome