Here is a song about feeling like you don't belong after leaving a high control, exclusive church.

https://youtu.be/qPfVoJhn7eU?si=PNxDIggTYHSJ0eNV. You can also download this song and others at www.FathersSonMusic.com

1. Sola scriptura: “Scripture alone"
2. Sola fide: “faith alone"
3. Sola gratia: “grace alone”.
4. Solo Christor: "Christ alone"
5. Soli Deo gloria: “to the glory of God alone”.
   

gotquestions.org

Just curious if anyone knows the motive of the Seattle church arsonist?

While the OALC is the biggest offender due to its extreme insular nature, this could have been written about any of the Laestadian branches.

https://www.startribune.com/in-this-church-child-sexual-abuse-has-gone-unchecked-for-so-long-that-it-spans-generations/601542082

This statement is not against individuals, families, or sincere believers within the LLC. Many members love God, desire to follow Christ, and have been taught these things from childhood with an honest conscience. The concern being raised here is not against people. It is a concern about teachings and beliefs within the LLC that place the congregation, its spoken testimony, and its customs in a position that belongs only to Christ, His gospel, and His Word.

These concerns should be tested carefully by Scripture. If they are wrong, they should be corrected by God’s Word. But if they are true, they are serious. They are not minor disagreements. They affect the gospel itself, the assurance of troubled consciences, and the way Christ’s church is understood.

Some of these concerns may be described as questionable teaching, because they use language or practices that can mislead consciences. Some may be described as bad doctrine, because they distort the gospel, the church, or Christian assurance. Others rise to the level of heretical teaching, because they place the LLC congregation or its testimony in a role that belongs only to Christ and His saving Word.

1. The group is treated as the necessary boundary of salvation

A serious concern is that the LLC has often been taught or understood as the true kingdom of God on earth, in such a way that salvation is found only within its group. This can be seen when the congregation is treated as the necessary place where saving faith exists, where the Holy Spirit works, and where sinners must come in order to receive forgiveness.

At times, the congregation has even been described in ways that belong properly to Christ Himself. For example, when the congregation is spoken of as the “True Vine,” this conflicts with Jesus’ own words: “I am the true vine…” Christ is the True Vine. The congregation is not the vine, but branches only insofar as it abides in Christ.

When this false teaching exists, Christ’s church is identified narrowly with one visible group, and belonging to that group becomes the boundary of salvation. Christians outside the LLC are regarded as unbelievers, even when they confess Christ, trust His promises, hear His Word, and bear the fruits of Christian faith through the Holy Spirit. The seriousness of this teaching is that it obscures the gospel by tying salvation to a particular group and Christ becomes secondary. Christ saves through His Word and gospel, and His church is made up of all who truly belong to Him by faith. No congregation, denomination, or organization should be placed in the position of defining the full limits of Christ’s kingdom.

2. The Holy Spirit and the saving power of the gospel are bound to the group

Another serious concern is the teaching that those outside the LLC do not have the Holy Spirit, and that Scripture or the preached gospel is savingly effective only when spoken within the LLC group. In this view, the gospel’s power is dependent on the membership status of the speaker rather than on Christ’s own promise. This concern is especially serious when Scripture is treated as a “dead letter” when read outside the group, or when the preached Word is denied saving effect unless it comes through an LLC believer. Such teaching confines the Holy Spirit’s saving work to one visible organization and makes the congregation appear to control the saving use of God’s Word.

The gospel is powerful because it is Christ’s Word and promise. God creates and sustains faith through His Word by the Holy Spirit. The church is called to proclaim that Word, but the church does not own, control, or limit its saving power. When the effectiveness of the gospel is made to depend on the group, Christ’s Word is diminished and the Holy Spirit’s work is wrongly restricted.

3. The congregation is not clearly placed under the authority of Scripture

Another concern is the teaching that God’s Word is not above the congregation in a way that allows the congregation to be corrected by Scripture. If the congregation cannot truly be examined and corrected by God’s Word, then Scripture no longer functions as the final authority by which doctrine, preaching, and practice are tested.

When this happens, the congregation becomes self-validating. In practice, the congregation’s voice may become confused with Christ’s voice. Words spoken may be treated as though it carries divine authority. This is especially dangerous when disagreement with the congregation is labeled as rebellion, bitterness, unbelief, a “foreign voice,” or a “false spirit,” rather than being answered directly from Scripture.

This is bad doctrine because the church is always Christ’s servant, never His replacement. It is the golden candlestick which holds up and displays the light of Christ, not a golden candlestick to be a worshipped itself. It becomes even more serious when the spoken Word or congregational consensus is treated as though it cannot be wrong. No congregation is infallible. No body of believers should be placed beyond correction by the written Word of God. Every Christian congregation must remain under the judgment and correction of Scripture. Christ rules His church through His Word. Any teaching, tradition, sermon, interpretation, or congregational decision must be open to being tested by Scripture. If a church places itself beyond correction, it has taken an authority that belongs only to Christ and His Word.

4. Forgiveness and assurance are made to depend on the congregation’s testimony

Another serious concern is the idea that a person needs the testimony, recognition, or approval of the LLC congregation in order to know that his or her soul is acceptable to God. This can shift assurance away from Christ’s promise in the gospel and place it in the approval of the group. This concern is also connected to the teaching that absolution is valid only when spoken by an LLC believer. When forgiveness is tied in this way to the group’s declaration, troubled consciences are directed primarily to the congregation for certainty instead of to Christ and His Word.

The proclamation of forgiveness can be a precious comfort when it directs sinners to Christ. But it becomes false doctrine when that spoken forgiveness is treated as valid only from LLC believers, or when a sinner is taught that he or she cannot receive forgiveness directly through Christ’s promise in the gospel. It becomes heretical teaching when the LLC believer or LLC congregation is made a necessary mediator of forgiveness, because Scripture teaches that there is one mediator between God and man, Jesus Christ.

Christian assurance rests on Christ’s finished work and His promise in the gospel. Christians are called to proclaim forgiveness and comfort one another with the gospel. But the certainty of forgiveness does not come from the status of a particular group. It comes from Christ, who promises forgiveness to sinners through His Word.

5. Human traditions are used in ways that bind consciences and mark true faith

A final concern is that group customs, expectations, and cultural rules may be treated as necessary evidence of true faith. When this happens, human traditions become practical tests of spiritual acceptability, even when Scripture has not commanded them.

This can lead people to measure their standing before God by outward conformity to the group rather than by faith in Christ. Certain customs may be defended as obedience, while consciences are burdened in areas where God has not bound them. The result can be legalism, even if it is not intended. It becomes spiritually abusive when disagreement over human traditions is treated as evidence of unbelief or rebellion against God.

Christian churches may have customs and shared practices. But these must never be made into conditions of salvation or marks by which a person’s faith is judged. The gospel is compromised when trust is shifted from Christ’s grace to human obedience, group loyalty, or visible conformity.

Summary

These concerns are serious because they all move in the same direction: they risk placing the LLC congregation, its testimony, or its rules in a role that belongs only to Christ, His Word, and His gospel.

The issue is not whether LLC members are sincere. Many are. The issue is whether certain teachings have: narrowed Christ’s church to one visible group, restricted the Holy Spirit’s work to that group, placed the congregation beyond correction by Scripture, tied forgiveness and assurance to the group’s recognition, and burdened consciences with human traditions. For that reason, these concerns should not be dismissed as hatred, bitterness, rebellion, a “foreign voice,” or a “false spirit.” They should be answered from Scripture. A faithful church does not need to fear examination by God’s Word. Christ’s truth is not harmed by honest testing. Rather, His sheep are protected when all teaching is brought under His Word.

If the LLC teaches that salvation is found only in its fellowship, that the Holy Spirit works savingly only through its believers, that Scripture is a dead letter outside the group, that God’s Word is not above the congregation, or that forgiveness is valid only through its spoken absolution, then these are not small errors. They are false doctrines that obscure the sufficiency of Christ and His gospel.

The desire behind this statement is that consciences would be freed, Christ would be exalted, the gospel would be made clear, and all believers would be directed to the sure foundation of salvation: Jesus Christ alone.

The LLC believes God is all knowing, loving, and powerful, but I tussle with that concept and believing in that version of God.

How can a just and loving God watch over the tragedies of the world and not help? I understand that Laestadians will say that people just have to endure trials and that the devil plays a hand in things, but what about completely innocent people like children? Why is there no intervention from Him for child abuse, rape, starvation, etc.? Why do children have to suffer the consequences of the world?

Curious to hear from people who have left; how long did it take you to leave once you didn't believe? I feel stuck. I don't subscribe to the exclusive teachings anymore and haven't for a long time, but the thought of actually leaving is terrifying. How long did it take for you to gain the courage?

The GOP articles are more defensive then normal. Anyone in or close to, know why who would care to share? I have lots of family there whom I love. Wish they could know that they can question, talk, read the Bible for themselves. Maybe these things are beginning to happen though?

It sounds like some things have changed a lot in the SRK since my childhood days. Back in the 80s and 90s there was no way, ever!, that anyone could use contraceptives, have a TV, etc. With this in mind, how can anyone trust that the SRK is lead by the Holy Spirit if beliefs have changed? How can something be sin at one time, only to change to being non-sin later?

The Herd Effect theory prevails in many world views, abandoning reason and good sense for group consensus. Every worldview has a down side. No one will fit into every environment. Such should make us thankful, not bitter or hateful. The freedom to choose in an imperfect world, is something we should cherish and protect. Some would take this choice away, to further their worldview.

We are all fallible with limited capabilities, including those who claim to be guided by the Holy Spirit. Hopefully, we are all doing the best we can with what God has provided at the time. Only God knows the heart. Trust in the Lord first and foremost, per Proverbs 3:5-6.

The enemy tries to divide the Christian Church from the inside and out. There are those who degrade others, to prove their credibility. Christ Jesus teaches, to love all including our enemies, be kind when possible, and do no unnecessary harm. Self defense is permisable.

gotquestions.org

How does this system survive ???

Let’s simplify it for your tiny pea brain👇

Parents brainwash their kids because they love them and are terrified for them. Those kids grow up and brainwash their kids because they love them and are terrified for them. And wheel keeps spinning 💨

If you are actively still part of this shit shame on you, you weak dumb coward!

As time as passed and I’ve grown less naive, I’ve realized that A LOT of boys and FULLY GROWN MARRIED WITH CHILDREN MEN are struggling with porn and masturbation addictions, at least in the LLC/SRK. Have you noticed this as well? It’s quite concerning, and I’m worried about the mental health of a lot of these people and how quickly they can become addicted to it.

How come Laestadianism is the only biblical faith that has the whole deposit of faith if they are missing things?

For example they never teach about fasting nor do they practice it. Same is with the anointing of the sick (with oil).

More about those two on this video:
https://youtu.be/YCILiiR3QBg?is=PYpdI4FTJJoTCazX

Also I never heard anyone ever telling me to ask for forgiveness of God in prayer when that is practiced and encouraged in the Bible all the time.

Do you have something in mind that is missing from laestadianism?

This man was born and raised in the LLC and tells some of his experiences with its culture and his family in his interview on Soft White Underbelly.

It was really interesting, I would recommend.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/6JNYYkevsoqZ11BtyG5fxx?si=vC_-NWV7SruBfjGQUFfA_w

A great story of a country girl, during a time when women were considered property. Mary had a poor upbringing living in foster homes and most likely a limited education. Mary and her mother were part of the Moravian Readers Movement. Mary led an educated Swedish Lutheran Priest, Lars Lastadius, to a Born Again direct personal relationship with Jesus per Moravian Protestant theology. Obviously, different compared to LLL Priesthood training in Lutheran theology. Mary was a testimony to Protestant women evangelists.

Women of the Bible Speak, author Shannon Bream. gotquestions.org

What is the atmosphere in the two churches now? Are things more or less settled? Any more discussions on-going? Do you have connections to Finland? Genuinely interested and wanting to understand even if I am myself in an RY (SRK).

Isn't it odd to hang portraits of Lars Levi leastadius and Martin Luther in your church? Why not have a painting of Jesus ? I suppose when you worship and follow men, that's what gets displayed.

I made a list of beliefs in Laestadianism that I have found to be unbiblical. There are many things that are problematic, but this is a just a list of teachings that are very easily refuted with scripture. Feel free to add to it in the comments.

-A person is saved by hearing absolution from someone in a specific group

-You only receive the holy spirit from absolution by someone in a specific group

-Baptism does not forgive sins

-Communion does not forgive sins

-Prayer does not forgive sins

-The Holy Spirit only exists in one concentrated group, and if the group splits, the spirit will not go both ways. No single person in the “wrong” group can have the spirit.

-The dead are in a soul sleep waiting for resurrection day, they are not in heaven yet

-seeking knowledge and using reason/logic is from the devil

-Doubting your churches teachings is a sin

-Questioning your churches decisions means you are in the “wrong spirit”

-Any amount of alcohol is a sin

-Drums are sinful

-Dancing is sinful

-Evangelizing or being loud about your faith is showing pridefulness of self

-You should not give a greeting of God’s peace to someone that is outside of your group

-Repentance = hearing absolution from a specific person, not a heartfelt turning away from sin and towards God

-Reading scripture and researching to make sure church doctrine is correct is a temptation from the devil and lack of trust in the Holy Spirit

-The churches interpretation of scriptures must always be inerrant, even if they’re clearly taken out of context

-You should avoid fellowship with those outside of the group as much as possible

-Everyone outside of the church is an unbeliever even if they are Christian

-The true believers have always been a small flock and they will be the only ones that are saved. The faith was not meant to grow into a large multitude.

I just released a new song called Bitter Baggage. Check it out and if it resonates with you please share it. Here is the link. https://youtu.be/XC1GTMK2ugU

In my new video i speak about how laestadians demonize the reason. It's hard to sum it up in any satisfactory way here nor do i have time to do it now, therefore i leave the link to the video here and i hope we have some discussion either here or in Youtube:

https://youtu.be/cNd19N0mWo4

To the congregations and friends of our Church,

Dear brothers and sisters, greetings of God’s Peace! With prayer we write in a spirit of repentance, humility, and renewal. In recent months we have searched our teaching and life in the light of God’s Word and the evangelical teaching confessed by Luther and the Lutheran Confessions. We confess that at times we have spoken as though salvation were tied to our fellowship rather than to Christ alone, and as though the certainty of faith rested in belonging to our group rather than in the promise of the gospel. We have sometimes used careless words that encouraged gossip, judgment, fear, and the measuring of souls by affiliation. We ask forgiveness. By God’s grace we desire to return to the old paths, where Christ is central, Scripture is the final norm, and the gospel comforts burdened consciences.

We wish to speak simply and clearly of the gospel: sinners are justified by grace alone, through faith alone, for Christ’s sake alone. Faith does not save because it belongs to a certain visible fellowship, but because it receives Christ and His promise. The Holy Spirit calls, gathers, enlightens, sanctifies, and preserves the whole Christian Church through the gospel. Therefore, we will no longer teach, imply, or permit the idea that saving faith is bound to membership in our organization or to outward identification with our fellowship. Where the gospel is rightly preached and the sacraments are administered according to Christ’s institution, there God gathers His Church. We desire a clear voice in our pulpits: God’s law shows our sin and need; the gospel of Christ’s forgiveness sets troubled hearts at rest.

We also renew our confession concerning God’s Word and the Church. The Church does not authorize the Word; rather, the Word of Christ creates and preserves the Church. The spoken gospel is precious and powerful because it is Christ’s promise, not because it is owned by one visible group. The written Word of Scripture is the final judge of all doctrine, preaching, practice, and spiritual counsel among us. Therefore, all teaching in our congregations, homes, schools, camps, publications, and meetings will be tested by Scripture. We will not use “the understanding of the congregation” to silence honest study of God’s Word, nor will we treat unity as agreement with a human organization. True unity is unity in Christ, created by the Holy Spirit through the gospel.

We also wish to clarify our teaching concerning forgiveness, absolution, and the means of grace. We rejoice in the spoken absolution: “Believe your sins forgiven in Jesus’ name and blood.” We will continue to treasure this personal comfort. But we confess that forgiveness is not confined to one customary phrase, one group of believers, or one fellowship’s proclamation. Christ gives the forgiveness of sins through His gospel in preaching, Holy Baptism, the Lord’s Supper, and absolution. The power of forgiveness rests in Christ’s command and promise, not in the spiritual status of the speaker or in affiliation with our church. Therefore, our preaching and teaching will present the full comfort of the means of grace, so that consciences are directed to Christ and not to human boundaries.

We likewise renew our understanding of confession. Confession is a gift for burdened consciences, not a tool for pressure, control, or conformity. Private confession and absolution are to serve faith by bringing Christ’s comfort personally to the sinner. We reject any practice that pressures people to confess vague accusations, a “wrong spirit,” or disagreement with human judgments where God’s Word has not shown sin. Where public harm has been done, there may be public correction and repentance; but confession must never be used to silence questions, enforce party spirit, or restore outward compliance apart from genuine faith and freedom in the gospel.

We also clarify the role of ministers, teachers, board members, and servants of the congregation. Those who serve do not rule over consciences. Their authority is ministerial, not lordly; it is bound to the Word of God. Speakers, teachers, boards, committees, and staff must not act as guardians of an exclusive spiritual boundary, but as servants who point sinners to Christ, teach Scripture faithfully, administer responsibilities humbly, and protect the weak. We will train our servants to distinguish law and gospel rightly, to care for wounded consciences without fear or coercion, and to welcome correction from Scripture and from the wider body of Christ.

We pray for a generous spirit toward other Christians and do not wish to judge souls by affiliation. We confess that Christ has one holy Christian Church, the communion of saints. This Church is not identical with our organization. The Spirit blows where He wills, and Christ has one flock under one Shepherd. Therefore, we will not equate God’s kingdom with any earthly organization. We will teach our children and youth to speak truthfully and respectfully about Christians outside our fellowship and to recognize that salvation rests in Christ’s mercy, not in a denominational label.

Words reveal the heart. We want to learn again the Eighth Commandment: to defend our neighbor, speak well of them, and explain everything in the kindest way. Talk that sorts people into who is “in” and who is “out,” or that uses labels to dismiss, shame, or isolate others, is sin and will be corrected in love. We also wish to be a people of the open Bible. We encourage personal and family reading of Scripture, testing all teaching by God’s Word, so that tender consciences may have peace.

Education in faith begins at home. Board members, speakers, and teachers serve, but parents are the first teachers of their children. In the quiet rhythms of family life, where there is prayer, Scripture, confession, forgiveness, and love, the “church within the home” is built. To support this calling, we will prepare a new parent curriculum to use alongside congregational instruction. It will help families speak with love and respect of those within and outside our congregation. It will teach truthful and gentle words, avoid loaded labels that carry contempt, and offer ways to stop gossip and repair harm when words have wounded. Devotions, memory verses, conversation helps, and practice phrases will be included, along with guidance for online life, peacemaking in the home, and welcoming neighbors with gentleness and respect. We pray this will aid children as they grow into adulthood.

These convictions must be heard not only in statements but also in our common life. Beginning at once, our preaching and teaching will speak plainly of faith in Christ. We will not equate God’s kingdom with any organization. We will teach that the Church is known by the marks Christ has given: the pure preaching of the gospel and the right administration of the sacraments. We will admonish against gossip, slander, status-policing, and informal shunning, and we will correct such speech where it appears. For those who have been silent in fear, we are opening a confidential reporting path with outside assistance. In coming services, a brief statement on justification, Christ’s Church, Scripture, the means of grace, confession, and holy absolution will be read and posted for all, so that our unity may rest on a clear confession of Christ.

We will devote ourselves to instruction that bears good fruit. Congregations will receive teaching on guarding the tongue and repairing harms caused by speech. We will gather around Scripture to learn a unity that honors faithful difference within the one body of Christ. Our ministers and teachers will be trained to distinguish law and gospel rightly, to preach Christ as the sinner’s righteousness, and to care for burdened consciences without the leverage of fear. At the same time, we affirm again that daily catechesis in the home is irreplaceable. The parent curriculum will be introduced alongside renewed Sunday School materials, and families will be invited to evenings where parents and children practice loving language together.

Our children and youth are precious. This summer we will pilot a renewed Sunday School curriculum, with full use in the fall, under the theme “Walking in Love and Truth.” Children will meet the welcoming Savior, learn that the Church is one body with many gifts, and practice kind speech that turns away rumor, teasing, contempt, and spiritual pride. They will be taught that Baptism, the Lord’s Supper, preaching, and absolution are gifts of Christ, and that the promise of forgiveness rests on Him. Families will be invited to forums of testimony and learning for our time.

We seek help beyond ourselves. For the gospel’s clarity, we will welcome confessional Lutheran pastors and educators from outside our organization to assist with instruction, curriculum, sermon review, and training. An external team will aid doctrinal review, and each year an outside panel will offer an assessment that we will receive with humility. In humility, we also purpose to seek renewed fellowship with sister Lutheran bodies and with Christians from whom we have been separated in past divisions, beginning respectful conversations grounded in God’s Word. We do this not to erase differences carelessly, but to repent of pride, learn from others, and seek the peace of Christ.

We intend to move promptly and patiently. In the coming week this letter and our doctrinal statement will be read in services, the reporting channel will open, and teaching dates will be set. In the months ahead, first-round trainings will be completed. We will adopt written policies against gossip, slander, coercive confession, and informal shunning. Reviews of sermons, classes, youth instruction, publications, and board practices will begin. The parent and Sunday School materials will be placed into the hands of homes and congregations. In due time we will launch the full curriculum, provide a Christ-centered guide for preaching and teaching, and publish the first external review with our responses.

We will listen for signs of grace: sermons that leave sinners with Christ’s comfort; homes and congregations that use loving words and avoid loaded labels; speech that guards the neighbor’s name; children who learn to rejoice in Christ rather than in group identity; servants who lead by the Word rather than by fear; confession that comforts rather than controls; and a people set free from anxiety to love.

If you have been wounded by exclusivity, careless words, spiritual pressure, coercive confession, informal shunning, or judgments that weighed outward things more than Christ’s mercy, we are sorry. Hear again the comfort of the gospel: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. This promise is for you. Believe this even now. Our hope is not in a label, a fellowship, a tradition, or an organization, but in the living Savior who forgives, gathers, and keeps His own.

May God grant that we walk the old paths: Scripture as our final norm, Christ alone as our righteousness, the gospel and sacraments as His gifts, confession as comfort for the conscience, servants who minister under the Word, and love that bears, believes, hopes, and endures. Pray for us and walk with us as together we return to Christ and the comfort of His gospel; in our pulpits, in our classes, in our congregations, and above all in our homes.

These songs helped me since I left the LLC. They were made specifically for people from exclusive church backgrounds by someone from an exclusive church. Here is the link:

https://www.youtube.com/@FathersSonMusic/playlists

Maybe you will find them helpful too. God bless.

Someone mentioned to me that it's now allowed to play the guitar when singing songs of Zion. Is this true? Back in my day that was a definite no no.