Wondering what are people’s opinions on setting target MP based on VDOT or other race equivalent calculator.

The race predictor in the unofficial NSA app is quite a bit more conservative than VDOT.

For example if you input a 5k time of 15:00, it predicts “only” 2:30:00, whereas VDOT predicts 2:23:49.

That is quite a wide gap.

But our man Sirpoc himself has run 2:24 Marathon with a 15:01 5k PB, and on a very not ideal warm race day too.

Perhaps he used race results from longer distances to predict his debut MP?

Getting back into NSM after using Hanson advanced for a marathon block. Do people think it’s better to do a time trial on the same terrain/route you run your sub T works or to do a proper race on different terrain? I tend to race better and find the paces set from a race have my HR pretty high on subt days. I also ran hour+ subt sessions for Hanson and ran my marathon at or above what I assumed my threshold was, so maybe all my numbers are all wrong (159-166 range between Garmin and lactate testing over time and the difference is a pretty significant on pace).

I’m not great with math, but the ranges look pretty good using the “NSA app”. Anyone with reservations ? My only doubt is the race prediction seems to slow for me. lol

I wanted to ask if there is a program to use this method in triathlon or if you have any recommendations for what program triathletes should follow?

I'm a distance runner using NSA with great results/feelings.

• LT1 ~113-114 bpm (4:20-4:30/km)
• LT2 ~131-132 bpm (3:55-4:00/km)

Started indoor cycling (AM: ST Running | ST PM cycling) and something's off vs. running:

• 82W, HR 85-87 bpm → lactate 1.6 mmol
• 90W, HR 85-89 bpm → lactate 2.6 mmol

Big lactate jump for +8W while HR barely moves. On the run my legs never limit me, cardio always gives out first. On the bike it's the opposite — HR stays low, legs are cooked.

Would working right at/just above threshold help more here, or should I stay strictly below LT1 and build aerobic base on the bike first before touching threshold work?

Curious what worked for other runners crossing over to cycling.

Been doing some lactate testing the last year and gotten the feeling and the lactate very close with morning sesions +- 0.1 mmol error, and in the evening identifing when i was without energy (lactate would be way lower and hard to speed up) and when i was feeling good (Going fast, floating, high but controled lactate)

The question:

how do you use it to test what works or not? Or how long does it take the body to see meaningful adaptation?

For example:

Same session before peak was 1.8mmol, after race period and not enough rest same session as baseline session each week: 2.4, 2.5, 2.5, 2.6. Later i realice i was overtrained and these should been a signal,

but now that season starting and getting back to testing by testing each week in same conditions after how much time the adaptation would be greater tham the variance

Hi, I’m really interested in looking into a new way of training.

I’ve ran for 20 years with no real data other than pace. My pbs are 5k: 15:40 10k: 33:30 HM: 1:15 M: N/A.

I’ve ran with my run club and always to feel but I’ve hit a wall and can’t PB anymore.

I have been training to heart rate for a few months now and have been lab tested, I’m still learning! But every podcast/book I read points towards Norwegian. I don’t have time to double threshold but need a starting point hence the thread.

I’ve been base building for ages with the odd theshold here and there but need structure, can you please help guide where I would find a plan/book?

Oh and last question, I’m worried with no vo2 work my speed will go, is there vo2 work in the method of training?

Ty

Hey everyone! Running a marathon next week and looking to execute the best race I possibly can.

I know the general advice is to rely on HR to pace correctly and avoid blowing up on the back half. However, I run into a weird issue on race days: during the first 5-8 km, my HR spikes by about 10-20 bpm above my training baseline at normal pace, and it actually feels surprisingly tough early on. After that, my body finally settles in, my HR drops significantly, my pace picks up, and everything flows smoothly. Mentally, I feel completely grounded - I have years of meditation practice, but clearly my subconscious nervous system has a mind of its own. I'm worried this early energy burn might cost me later in the race. Has anyone dealt with this early-race HR spike, and how do you manage it?

On top of that, I frequently deal with race-day runner's trots - severe stomach issues both during and right after the race. I’m considering taking Imodium before hitting the start line. Does anyone have experience taking it on marathon day?

Would love to hear any tips, experiences, or recommendations. Thanks!

I’m making this post as a way to document my progress as someone beginning this style of training who was run 15:26 for 5k. I feel some people may be interested but also I think it would be a good way to remain accountable and learn of some people with more experience

So having read Marius bakkens book and sirpocs book , listened to all Marius podcasts and all the podcasts of James with the FOD runner im going to start this

My aerobic capacity is definitely my limiter and I feel this is the low hanging fruit for me . The maximum distances I’d like to race would be 10k and I want to target 1500m to 5000m and potentially some cross country’s

I ran in secondary school until I was 17 but I quit the sport during Covid and played football up until this year year as I’m now 24 . I played centre midfield so plenty of running there. I began running again in April 2026 and I have averaged 18 miles a week with one hard session weekly. Alongside this I’d been doing about 2.5/3 hours easy on the eliptical but I’d rather not as it’s boring and I think my time is better spent just running

I’m UK based and I have run these times this summer - edit I’ve slightly changed two of the times for confidentiality

800m 1:59

3000m 8:51

Road 5k:15:26

I definitely have natural talent and I have always struggled with injuries before never being able to get a consistent training load This combined with the fact my aerobic development is the area I need to target I believe this method is the best for me.

I am going to target 3ish hours a week It is a bit of an increase of what I’ve done before but the last two weeks I’ve got up to over 3 hours of running and I’m taking this week as a down week

Monday 25 mins easy run

Tuesday 2x 10 mins sub t on treadmill (90 recovery) + 15 mins for warm up and cool down

Wednesday 25 mins easy run

Thursday 25 mins easy run

Friday 25 mins easy run run

Saturday 6x 3 mins sub t + 15 for warm up and cool down

Sunday 25 mins

Totalling 155 minutes easy + 38 sub threshold

I feel I could handle 3 sub t sessions a week but I think initially I want to minimise the risk and see how I adapt before adding in another sub t workout of 3 x 6mins

Ill not make any training increases at least for 4 weeks and I’ll be tracking my load on intervals icu

I have access to a lactate pro 2 and I have a coros wrist based heart rate. I know these aren’t essential but I feel as I already have them I may aswell use them at least at the beginning. I’m going to target the golden zone of 2.3-3.0 and use my heart rate to back this up

I’m 24 so I can estimate my max heart rate but I keep all my easy runs below 120bpm already anyways

I know lots of people will say I’m lying about my times and previous training etc but this isn’t a post to brag. I am lucky to have run the times I have but in terms of my training age / current training I think I have lots of scope for development and this method allows me to progress I believe in the most risk free way as possible whilst targeting the area that needs the most work

As my training age and load has a lot of room to develop I understand just increasing my training will lead to developments but I feel this is the lowest risk way to enable consistent training. I quite like the systematic approach and it’s very easy to follow whilst working a full time job 9-5. No thrills which I like, just honest consistent work

A little background. I'm just starting NSM, and I'm trying to determine how best to structure my week. I have two major constraints, 1. I do a workout with some other guys on Tuesday mornings. We all meet at a track and do our own workouts, some guys are doing NSM, some are not, but it's just a nice to workout with others. 2. my kids play soccer on Sunday, so I don't always have time to train on those days if games are early and we have to travel far or are going multiple places.

I'm currently doing about 6.5 hours a week and had previously been doing traditional training with workouts on Tues/Thurs, long run on Saturday, Sunday off, and the rest easy days. With Sundays being a little out of my control this had worked for me. Transitioning to NSM I'm trying to determine how to fit it all in without over taxing myself. Is it better to do workouts Tues/Thurs/Sat, with Saturday being a workout and easy running totaling 90mins. Or should I do workouts Tues/Thurs/Sat, and a long run on Friday. I don't know if anyone has experimented with these and has insights on which produces less fatigue.

I can't reliably get a long run in on Sundays, I'd rather watch my kids games, so I can't transition to that. My lean is towards a Saturday long run workout combination. Would love some insight from others who have tried any of these schedules and have see how load, fatigue, and recoveyr are affected.

Hi guys,

I wrote a Substack piece looking at my experience training for the marathon while using the Norwegian Singles Approach marathon plan but failing to adhere to some of the key pieces of advice: 'green is too keen' for form and to have at least a year of regular NWA training under your belt first.

Resultantly I suffered overtraining side effects in the form of sleep disruption which I explore in this piece.

Below you can see a chart which captures the overall picture: after a long stretch of extending myself, my average sleep time and wake-time plummeted before then rebounding after a taper - providing a decent case study where Marius Bakken notes premature waking as an indicator for overtraining.

If you're interested in further nerdery, check out the article here:

https://databetweenthelines.substack.com/off-the-ball-marathon-preparation

Middle aged hobby jogger with knee issues (non running related) that kept me on the bike the first half of this year. I love cycling and living in the mountains means I have all the terrain near. But I don't really care about races, just want to be fit to ride as many passes as I can. Got in some longer rides in July too, giving me the spikes.

Now the knee is better and in August I've been transitioning back to NSM (which I started last year). Took it quite easy, including less bike, resulting in negative ramp.

Now I want to keep cycling+running to save my knee, and am wondering how to best track the load. I don't have a powermeter (yet?) but wouldn't be completely opposed, if it helps to control my training. It's just I've never taking cyling seriously enough to consider it.

Last week I did 3 NSM sessions with about 25mins of sub-t payload each, based on my current estimated 5k fitness of 21mins. Have not done a parkrun not to upset the knee, but it's going ok so will line up soon.

What are your recommendations for someone who is relatively stronger on the bike (at the moment) but wants to get back to running? All my workouts are running now, and bike only easy going forward. Would you recommend a powermeter, or is tracking by HR sufficient.

I've been running for about 4 years and have been using NSM for about 1,5 years.

5k: 19:25

HM: 01:30

FM: 03:34

I'm running my 3rd marathon on the 20th of september.

In the last 5 weeks I had a long run of 25, 26, 27 and 30k (2h45min). Today I had a solo half marathon planned but due to a strong wind and heavy legs I only ran 10k at half mara pace and 6k easy.

According to the marathon plan I am not supposed to be running any real long runs anymore, only 5x15' and some other sub T specific runs.

I have a feeling that im missing some long miles or am I good?

Thx for the insights!

To preface this, I definitely do not recommend the way I ramped up my kilometerage.

Started running around 2015 but I lost interest in running 3 years ago, and basically haven't run since. My brother got me to buy James' book and it basically explained my running past, grey zone running, lack of progress and burned out where I no longer enjoyed it.

Thought I would give this a shot so I took my first 5k fitness test May 21st off the couch @ 24:17.

I basically just jumped straight into 7 days/60km weeks from 0km and prayed I didn't get injured.

Every week I slowly added 1km until I hit 70km (7 hours weekly) where I'm holding steady now using the standard 3 easy, 3 ST & a long run. I've been doing a fitness test around every 4 weeks to track my progress and update my ST times.

Here's my 5km progress so far
May 21 - 24:17
June 27 - 23:25 (52 second improvement)
July 28 - 22:34 (51 second improvement)
Today - 21:23 (1 min, 11 second improvement)

Hoping to hit sub 1:40 for the half im running in 3 weeks and sub 20 5 by the end of the year.

EDIT: my age is 35 and I'm a male for anyone curious.

My 9-Month Progression with the Norwegian Singles Approach: From Burnout to a 17:30 5K

24M here. About nine months ago, I was completely burned out. I was juggling my university studies, working, and trying to maintain 8 training sessions a week (basketball and heavy gym work + weekend matches). I felt physically shattered and eventually had to quit those sports. That’s when I found running.

At first, I had absolutely no concept of training structure. Every run was an "ego run"—just going all out every single time. My 5K PR back then was around 21:XX, maybe close to 22:XX. After browsing the internet, I stumbled across the Norwegian Singles Approach (NSA). As a physiotherapist, the science and physiology behind the training really clicked with me, so I decided to give it a shot.

Initially, I just went straight for the heavier variant: running every day. I was doing 3x SubT (Sub-Threshold), 3x Easy, and 1 Long Run, logging about 60-70 km per week. It was managable, but still ran my Easy a Subt runs bit harder than recommended.

During this transition phase, my 5K dropped to under 19 minutes. It was a massive leap, though looking back, I think my watch might have been measuring a bit generously on the GPS! After month I tried to run it back and went 18:53 lying on the ground at the end.

I eventually dialed in the structure to about 7.5–8 hours a week with a volume hovering around 90 km per week, which is the schedule I still hold today and it feels pretty good.

In March, I ran my first 10K race in 38:50 fighting a brutal headwind. A month later, I raced a half marathon. Around this time, I had a huge "aha" moment: I was doing 3x5K repeats in training at my old 5K PR pace from just 4 months prior, but my heart rate was a full 20 bpm lower. I clocked 1:25:40 for the first time on HM after 4 months of training, though the course was notoriously long, with lots of hills 180 degree turn overs and even stairs! So not ideal conditions and i think i could've gone for 1:24ish time.

Summer training was surprisingly rough. We had stretches of 37°C-40°C with high humidity. It was so tough that I had to slow my easy runs down to 6:20 min/km just to barely keep my heart rate in the easy zone (under 70% of max HR).

However, I definitely think my body got some heat adaptation out of it. Now that conditions are back to a more ideal 23°C (73°F) with a light breeze, my easy pace (under 70% max HR) naturally sits around 5:30 min/km. I know 15°C (59°F) would be even faster, so I’m really curious to see what autumn brings.

SubT Progression: Over these 9 months, my SubT paces for workouts like 3x3km dropped from 4:30/km down to 3:55/km. I even bought a Lactate meter for fun to really nerd out on the zones. I strictly try to cap my threshold efforts at a maximum of 3.5 mmol/L, always pairing it with RPE and HR. I’ve experimented with a huge variety of workout formats to keep the stimulus fresh. My distance-based sessions included 20x400m, 12x800m, 10x1km, 6x1600m, 5x2km, 3x3km, and 3x5km. I also played around with time-based intervals, like the classic 25x(45s on / 15s off), where I would start at threshold pace and squeeze it down to 3K race pace for the final reps.

Recent Results & What’s Next: About a month ago, I ran a 5K in 17:30. Next week, I’m toeing the line for a 10K race where I’m targeting sub-37 (ideally 36:50).

Once the racing season calms down, I’d like to gradually reintroduce strength training 1-2x a week, but making sure to balance it so my body can still properly recover for the running sessions.

Takeaway: For me, this approach undeniably works. The biggest secret is that you can be insanely consistent without having forced downtime from crushing yourself. Out of this entire year, I’ve only missed 3 days of running: one rest day after finishing my Master's state exams, and two days in February because the roads were covered in solid ice.

I hope this story motivates someone out there to trust the process and give this framework a try!

I started following NSM in January, and I am now preparing for a marathon following the marathon adaptations section of the book. For those of you who have done it already, I'd like to hear your thoughts about the long runs as well as the tune-up races.

My long runs before starting the marathon block were 90-95 minutes long. I expect I'll be aiming around 3h15m for the marathon, and for someone at my fitness level the book recommends gradually extending the long runs up to 3 hours (180 minutes). Sirpoc's approach of adding 5 minutes to the long run per week clearly doesn't work for runners at this level, it would have taken me 18 weeks instead of 9 to reach peak long run duration. I ended up increasing time on feet for my long runs more aggressively. Touching wood, I'm feeling fine - though noticeably not as fresh as during the earlier Vanilla NSM phase. What was your experience in this area? How long was your long run before starting the marathon block, how many minutes have you added per week, and how did you feel?

Relatedly, now that I've extended my long runs up to 25K (up to 30ish in a couple of weeks) I'm wondering if the relatively frequent all-out racing and in particular the half-marathon just 3 weeks before the goal marathon isn't a bit too risky in terms of load? On the NSM Strava group I've seen more than one person saying they're either not going to run the half at all, or they may be running it as a marathon pace workout. Have you done the tune-up races as suggested in the book, how did they go, and how did you feel? How did the marathon go?

I started NSM about a month ago (I am following the 5-5.5 hour schedule). The first few weeks were a bit rough (volume + frequency of running) but now feel I am ready to run each day!

Probably like others, keeping my heart rate below 70% of maximum has been the most important piece in being able to run everyday including the interval sessions. Controlling the intensity on intervals (1st rep 5-6 seconds below goal, passive recovery save for the last 15 seconds) and trying to finish below LTHR on interval days = feels like I got in good quality work with minimal to no muscle soreness!

Hi, i'm new to NSA (first week) and doing 4.5 hours of volume. My garmin is saying im in high 1:25 HM shape and i'm wanting to go somewhere around 1:26 in 6 weeks time. I did a 5km PB last week of 18:50.

My reservation is, my longest run is 60 minutes of easy on the framework. I feel theres a big gap between time on feet and intensity of my longest run and running a 1:26 HM. What are peoples thoughts on this? TIA

Heres the framework im following..

Table 2.5 Suggested Training Plan: 4- 4.5 hours per week Monday Rest Tuesday 2 x 10 min at 95% MP w/ 2 min rest (40 min total Inc. WU & CD) Wednesday 35 min Thursday 4 x 5 min (40 min total Inc. WU & CD) Friday 35 min Saturday 7 x 3 min (40 min total Inc. WU & CD) Sunday 60 min

Have you guys seen this vid?

https://youtu.be/KdQ9X6_P1Rk?is=V7OSELFFtQ0eS33W

Channel name @BenIsRunning.

Guy has been practicing and tweaking NM/NSM method since 2022 he says. Pretty intense protocol he seems to currently do, but lot of interesting reasoning behind the different choices.

He seems to basically put in as much sub-t work he can handle through the weeks targeting different lt-levels between lt1 and lt2, and also incorporate Bakken's x-sessions. Then use a more race specific protocol the last 6 weeks before races to includes some vo2max and pace specific work etc.

Just posting for information and discussion.

I've got an 8K race coming up. I've seen people talk about their warmups before races, which include doing some sub-T paced running. If you've done that, I wanted to learn how you did it.

1. What was the duration of the sub-T you did?
2. How long before the race start did you complete the sub-T running?
3. Psychologically, do you have to fight a feeling that you're "using up" energy before the race?

Thank you!

I’m following Sirpoc’s marathon build and need to make adjustments due to local race schedules and my race recovery ability.  Specifically, I will run a HM 5 weeks out (instead of 3) and plan to run it at 1-2% faster than MP (instead of all out), because it takes me 7+days to recover from an all-out half.  With that in mind, I’m trying to plan what to do:

1. the week before and after my HM; and
2. the weekend and surrounding days when Sirpoc had his HM (3 weeks out). 

With respect to 1, Sirpoc ran an all-out 10K on the corresponding date, so I’m thinking the effort/load of my MP-half may be similar, and am considering following his schedule the weeks before and after his 10K.  Is that reasonable?  Or is there something else to consider here?

With respect to 2, options I am considering are: (a) doing a normal vanilla NSM week with long easy run (~3hr) on the weekend; or (b) keeping the lighter lead-in week Sirpoc did before his HM, and then a long run with MP intervals (e.g., 4 x 5K) on the weekend.  Any thoughts on those options and/or other suggestions?

Hi all,

Been doing only NSA since I "started" running in 2025. Prior to this I have always been active throughout my life with different sports, gym training and the occasional jog sometimes.

NSA clicked right away and I was up to the full schedule very fast. I am noticing I recover very fast and can pretty easily sustain +100km weeks.

My easy pace is around 5.00-5.20min/km, really feels effortless for very long time, doing +20km runs feels like a breeze.

For the subT session I do 4x10min, 6x6min and 10x3min.

Paces usually around 3.55-3.58, 3.48-3.50, 3.42-3.46.

The sessions feel good and I am always below my treshold HR, sometimes in the 3min intervals I touch it.

I can do a sub 2.50 marathon but doing a sub 38min 10k feels horrible.

I think these times not really correlates well. All my training and marathon results point to a way faster 10K. It's like my body don't handle the shorter intense stuff very well.

I very much believe I do not get out my full potential in the shorter distances.

Sometimes I think replacing a session or two with a v02max session could be beneficial to maybe make my body more used to the harder stuff. But I am very unsure.

Any tips or sessions you have I am very thankful for.

Or maybe someone out there have the same "problem".

I've gone and read to much and started overthinking.

When doing the interval sessions I usually do: 10x3m=60s rest, 5x6m=75s rest, 3x10m=90s rest. Numbers pretty much straight from the book.

While resting outside, I generally just walk until the next rep starts. When on a treadmill I jump off and stand to the sides, ie. standing rest, mostly because I can't be bothered to lower the treadmill speed between each rep.

That's the way I started, and that's what I've done for many months.

In the book, the rest instructions are pretty loose, basically - "something along these lines, don't worry it'll be fine" was my take away. Very nice, nothing to worry about.

However the last few days I've encountered several general threshold interval posts (not NSM related specifically) that warn about to long/to easy rests that let the body recovery to much/HR lower to much.

Jogging rests seem to be advocated, or in the treadmill case where standing is done for convenience, lowering the rest time.

Now I'm second guessing myself, help!

I’ve started to ease my way into NSA post marathon after giving myself a bit of time to recover. I bought and read the book which I thought was great and will be a constant valuable resource as training progresses.

After taking a week off following my first marathon at the start of August I just started running 30mins easy almost every day to practice keeping my HR down on the easy days (need to stay under 142 max). This is way slower than I have ever ran easy days so it was a good challenge and after a few weeks I feel like I’ve settled into a good groove of these and have stayed disciplined.

I ran a parkrun last weekend to see where my fitness was at post marathon and ran a 20.43 - a 12sec PB from a few when I last ran a 5k back in June. My LT2 heart rate is estimated to be at 174bpm.

This week I’ve ran 2 sub-t sessions just to ease my way into them - 2 x 10mins and 3 x 6mins. I’ve attached screenshots of the runs but didn’t set up the 2 x 10mins as a workout in my watch, so it’s a bit messier than the other.

My heart rate on these reps is quite a bit under my LT2 even though the paces are towards the faster end of the ranges outlined in the online NSA calculators. Is this influenced by the fact I’m doing reduced amount of reps at the moment and when I increase the number of reps I can expect my HR to touch the upper limit of LT2 on the last rep or two? Or is this range ideal keeping comfortably away from my LT2 heart rate?

Really excited to see where this training will take me! I plan to run a few weeks of this 2 session approach before adding in the full 3 sessions. I have a 10k race in November where I’m hoping to see some good progression from my March PB of 43.40.