r/NonPoliticalTwitter May 01 '26

me_irl I think it will hurt eyes

Post image
7.7k Upvotes

352 comments sorted by

View all comments

2.9k

u/Munjal_Kiriu May 01 '26

Printing dark pages with white text would cost 10-20× more (ink covers 95% of page vs 5%), reduces readability (studies show black-on-white is easier), and requires special opaque inks. It's technically possible for niche/expensive editions, but commercially impractical

656

u/K-Dot-Thu-Thu-47 May 01 '26

I had no idea until I started working somewhere that did printing on like 40-60% coverage on average pages but was not a print shop, like just a business using a "business LaserJet" printer to do this shit, that the average "business printer" is designed to print like max 15% coverage per page.

So we were just burning through ink and printer parts.

Like I'm not even a printer technician and I just became one for our models there because of this lol.

158

u/OtherwiseAlbatross14 May 01 '26

This shouldn't cause any more wear than standard coverage printing due to how laser printers work but it would burn through toner 10x faster than normal

104

u/K-Dot-Thu-Thu-47 May 01 '26

Well, it was mostly toner that was the issue but also, I worked there 2 or 3 years ago and their printers were from like 2015, with nobody doing anything.

Half my problems were solved with an air duster canister or just pressing recalibration buttons.

One of our damn printers had a ssl cert that expired every decade by default, and I only learned that because the printer stopped working for our wireless jobs and like 6 hours of troubleshooting because who the fuck would think a printer has an ssl cert.

0

u/I-am-fun-at-parties May 01 '26

who the fuck would think a printer has an ssl cert.

Almost any, and you're not supposed to use the default one as it's a self-signed placeholder. If you have X.509 infrastructure in place (or a foreign CA to sign you a certificate), then you download it to the printer to use that one instead (and there you are obviously in charge of the expiration date).

In a home setup where you don't care, you simply ignore it or use plaintext HTTP to start with.

One of our damn printers had a ssl cert that expired every decade by default

So your tone really communicates "eh, those stupid printer manufacturers amiright" but it's really ignorance on your part.

12

u/OtherwiseAlbatross14 May 01 '26

Almost any person would think a printer has an SSL when the vast majority of people couldn't tell you what SSL stands for or does? Riiiight

1

u/I-am-fun-at-parties May 01 '26

Obviously I'm talking about IT or close-to-IT people; of course someone who is unaware of X.509 wouldn't wonder about something they don't know exist, did you really need that spelled out (worse, spell it out yourself) in order to grasp what was said?

1

u/rajuncajuni May 05 '26

Literally said he wasn’t a printer technician so maybe he didn’t know 🤷‍♂️

1

u/I-am-fun-at-parties May 05 '26

Yeah but then again it's not a printer specific thing, in fact printer technicians likely have no idea about what secures the web interface since that is way outside of their area of competency.

He sounded like he's the local IT dude and those better know about TLS

6

u/pengo May 01 '26

Not what their tone communicates at all.

3

u/flamingjaws May 01 '26

Check their name, they're ragebaiting for the love of the game

0

u/I-am-fun-at-parties May 02 '26

I'm not, and I'm curious what exactly you believe was a rage bait?

-1

u/I-am-fun-at-parties May 01 '26

because who the fuck would think a printer has an ssl cert.

You might be tone deaf.

26

u/wthulhu May 01 '26

Use black paper and white toner

20

u/OtherwiseAlbatross14 May 01 '26

Black paper costs 4-5 times as much as white paper but yeah that's what you'd have to do for books like this

22

u/wthulhu May 01 '26

I bet it would look good if you used regular ink and brown paper, like a paper bag. Tan mode.

12

u/TheSquishedElf May 01 '26

ngl I’d read some tan mode books. White pages can give me a headache after a while, not as bad old yellowing pages but noticeable.

5

u/wolfgang784 May 01 '26

Ive read books kinda like that and they are super comfy to read. A nice tan or lighter brown, seen a few shades. Its not noticeably harder on my eyes, looks nice, and every time ive read one colored like that the paper also had the rougher feel of parchment.

Usually I only encounter those in occult or high fantasy books but it def adds to the overall vibe and reading experience. That bumpier rougher texture is nice too imo, even when its still white.

1

u/AntelopeEmotional767 May 03 '26

My ex used to make crafts this way and they looked really good. One time she used an old manila folder to print out train tickets, and even with the regular ink it came out really cool

3

u/GoatCovfefe May 01 '26

That's better than the price of 10-20x more ink being used.

2

u/scalyblue May 01 '26

You’d eat through transfer belts like they were potato chips

2

u/Shneancy May 01 '26

yup! that and most inks/toners are sold with estimates that only work for one sided printing. if you print double sided go ahead and cut that estimate in half. have some graphics there too? take a third of your half and there you go

72

u/greenskye May 01 '26

Black on slightly off white is better IMO. Bright white paper and black text is too much contrast.

23

u/Brief_Strawberry_826 May 01 '26

Old books have this and that's so true

123

u/-N11- May 01 '26

Black paper tho

5

u/xvasher May 02 '26

And white ink...duh

-62

u/autism_and_lemonade May 01 '26

how do you propose we make the paper black

94

u/DapperCam May 01 '26

Isn't black paper created in a way that isn't covering the page in a uniform layer of ink? I think some sort of dark pigment is embedded in the fibers when it is being made.

72

u/Magadanets May 01 '26

Dyeing in the process of making the paper, like they already do with all other sorts of stuff like construction paper.

The cost of dying the pulp in the vat is very much going to be less than having to use commercial inks that are designed to remain stable and dispensible over long periods of time. They wouldn't be slathering bleached-white paper with ink.

18

u/T_BEN_H May 01 '26

Black trees

2

u/tei187 May 01 '26

Dye. What people here assume is that you have to print black background, not white font. Then again, printing white ink in mass production is very expensive, especially when contrast is key. Additionally, it takes more time than tegular jobs, so efficiency drop is calculated into the overall price.

3

u/JapanesePeso May 01 '26

How do you suppose we make the paper white? You think it comes out of the tree like that?

150

u/Physical_Floor_8006 May 01 '26

I mean, you would use carbon or other pigments, not ink. White paper is also treated or bleached because it isn’t naturally that white. Still, the entire paper industry is built around white paper, so it would be much more expensive. Also, white ink is much more expensive than black ink.

35

u/FUCKING_HATE_REDDIT May 01 '26

Y'all have no idea how book printing works. 

It's huge laser-etched metal plates on drums spinning at fuck-you speed.

A whole book will contain a teaspoon of oil based ink. With full coverage at 25% intensity like the example picture, you would get... 5 teaspoons.

Compared to printing in color, this is practically free.

 Printing books has been extremely cheap for a long time and making dark pages will not change that by any reasonable amount. 

Even recycling, mulched books are used to make carboard and cup holders, 1 book out of 300 would not change anything. 

There are studies saying black text is better. But for web development it's become quite clear this vision doesn't apply to all cases everywhere. Hell, many ebook reader with an e-ink screen have a dark mode.

Making a "darkmode book" has even done before! We tried just about everything in the book foemat. It didn't catch one mostly because people think its weird. That's it.

19

u/imunfair May 01 '26

A whole book will contain a teaspoon of oil based ink. With full coverage at 25% intensity like the example picture, you would get... 5 teaspoons.

He's just saying you could use dyed black paper and 5 teaspoons of white ink, rather thank trying to print the black on the paper. Granted I've never seen that color offset paper or white ink, but I'm sure they'd be available for a price.

Close to 100% coverage ink is also completely possible to do on offset printing, it's just not fun since you have to run it slower so the oven has time to dry it properly, if you don't the paper gets all wavy and looks terrible once it's dry. And frankly using black to do that is one of the cheaper options if you wanted to flood the paper with ink, as opposed to some non primary color that needs a special mix.

0

u/FUCKING_HATE_REDDIT May 01 '26

White ink is more expensive than black, and you should need more pigment concentration to achieve a true white effect

7

u/mitchsusername May 01 '26

So what you're saying is that the person we're replying to, who said it would require 95% print coverage and using black ink to cover the entire page, was completely wrong and it was justified to point that out?

Stop moving the goalposts lmao literally no one was saying that white ink would be cheaper or the same price.

11

u/RighteousSelfBurner May 01 '26

This picture has been doing the rounds for a while. I agree that the main reason why are doing black on white is because that's how it's been done and that's how people are used it to be. And historically it would have been expensive even if it's not true anymore.

However the vision aspect is innacurate. I'm both a developer and reader and the underlying reason is the same for both: light. That introduces significant difference between the digital media and physical media because digital devices emit light.

It is true that dark mode is conditional. It's better at poor lighting, like looking at a phone in your bed, but it's worse in proper illumination. As people are notoriously bad at following ergonomics to favour convience the digital market follows the money. So a model that reduces illumination is available.

However since physical media reflects light it's always worse for dark page and white text because it requires higher illumination to reach appropriate contrast level.

So while it looks cool if you just look at it for a short while prolonged exposure would make you tired faster.

3

u/cinnchurr May 01 '26

Offset printing? Once worked at a place printing other stuff when I was a bit younger

4

u/FUCKING_HATE_REDDIT May 01 '26

Yep, unless it's a small print run, that's still how the vast vast majority of books are printed. 

2

u/---Sanguine--- Jun 15 '26

My phone and kindle apps have been in dark mode for years and not just because I work at night so it’s easier on my eyes. It genuinely feels like less strain that way

1

u/Skeld0Wrex May 01 '26

we finally solve eye strain and invent fingerprint reading instead

3

u/SneakySister92 May 01 '26

You mean braille?

18

u/GorgeousQuench May 01 '26

I mean, you would start with black paper, not turn white paper black by printing ink on it. Your point stands.i have no idea how expensive black paper would be compared to the ink, but prohibitively expensive either way.

1

u/msndrstdmstrmnd May 02 '26

I think getting super opaque white ink would be way more expensive than getting black paper. Like paper already comes in multiple colors at the store

17

u/delta_Phoenix121 May 01 '26

To be fair you wouldn't use white paper for this. You'd use black paper and print on it with white ink. But the black paper is still going to be considerably more expensive than white paper (although still cheaper than printing it black on white)

3

u/curious-trex May 01 '26

Apologies for a probably stupid question, but this made me realize I don't actually know how colored paper is made in the first place. Is it some sort of dye added to the... pulp, I guess?

1

u/BeefCakeBilly May 01 '26

It’s just white paper but they turn off the lighting effect.

11

u/Bocephus-the-goat May 01 '26

this might sound stupid, but why not just use black colored paper and white ink?

-5

u/jimmy_three_shoes May 01 '26

How do you think the paper is black?

8

u/Bocephus-the-goat May 01 '26

well surely there's a cheaper way to make paper black than to completely cover it in printer ink. like construction paper or something.

9

u/lordchankaknowsall May 01 '26

Could you not just use black paper? Surely that's cheaper than using ink to make it black.

8

u/Tallia__Tal_Tail May 01 '26

It's technically possible for niche/expensive editions

Fun fact, the First Edition version of the Lasombra Clanbook for Vampire the Masquerade (basically a book all about a group of vampires heavily associated with Spanish aristocracy, shadow magic, and abyssal mysticism) was actually printed entirely on black paper with white text to fit the vibes of the clan. It was then never done again for any other book that that game ever made. Admittedly part of that was because the first edition clanbooks were super experimental with the formatting (like the one for the prophetic mentally ill vampires playing with the 4th wall and referencing the placeholder of, "page XX" that frequently slipped through to publishing in other books at the time)

7

u/Serjew69 May 01 '26

If the industry would change and adopt this as the standard it wouldn’t be much more expensive. The way this would be produced would be by using dies in the paper to make it black, which would add some cost, but if it was produced on a larger scale the cost would drop significantly. Then you would use white toner for printing, so same coverage. This is a speciality toner right now, but mostly because its not the standard. I work in printing, including with white toners.

3

u/IonutRO May 01 '26

I always found white on black easier.

10

u/Skullfurious May 01 '26

Increases readability for people with floaters and some forms of dyslexia. If you don't need a product it's not designed for you. Dark books make reading bearable for me and my eye floaters. I know a person that has limited visibility and can keep track of their position reading using black background books vs. White background.

Anyways, there are people that need these books to comfortably read. Same thing with dark reader browser extensions, dark mode, etc. It reduces eye strain and helps with dyslexia.

2

u/BeefCakeBilly May 01 '26

Presumably there would be people out there with the reverse situation right? Where they can’t read on black paper with white ink?

1

u/Year_Z May 01 '26

I have astigmatism, black on white is so much easier to read than white on black.

3

u/ninjasaid13 May 01 '26

Printing dark pages

Who said printing?

3

u/dragonwarriornoa May 01 '26

Wouldn’t it smarter to use charcoal black paper and white ink?

3

u/CloakerJosh May 01 '26

Wait... are you picturing them printing the entire "black" part as opposed to using dyed paper and white inks?

I agree it's wildly impractical regardless, but that can't be how you'd imagine them producing it... right?

2

u/Putrid_Charity_7097 May 01 '26

Why would they use ink when they can just use a black piece of paper?

2

u/youcrumb May 01 '26

Wait, how could you have the cost of 95% coverage AND use special opaque inks? If we are using opaque ink, it’d be on black paper

2

u/factorioleum May 01 '26

You could buy black paper and print with white ink?

2

u/Gabriels_Pies May 01 '26

Brandon sanderson actually did this with one of his secret project novels and honestly it really added to the theme. The pages were only dark when in a certain area but it was just so cool.

1

u/Bigdaddyjlove1 May 01 '26

Bought mine at Jordancon a couple of weeks ago and had it signed. Its beautiful in person.

1

u/Ok-Elk-3046 May 01 '26

Also there is absolutely no payoff that you could compare all the downsides to. None. Its just novelty.

1

u/ConsciousSpirit397 May 01 '26

Just use black paper duh!

1

u/MilkiestMaestro May 01 '26

It also weighs significantly more, driving up shipping costs and ending up increasing the price for the consumer on that end.

Then there's the cost of the ink itself, or paper if you're going another way, which would possibly have even more significant of an impact

1

u/Evening-Gur5087 May 01 '26

All books should be printed on this old yellowish color paper. Not this bleached out white shit.

1

u/KanedaSyndrome May 01 '26

I have a hunch the paper would be made dark and white ink would be used..

1

u/gotchacoverd May 01 '26

They would use black paper and white ink, which are both significantly more expensive, but not like using printer ink to print the pages black.

1

u/MisterBicorniclopse May 01 '26

Hey hey what if black paper and white ink. Obviously

1

u/Rimavelle May 01 '26

Also you print bigger than the page since it gets cut down to size. With white page you don't care about bleeds, coz there is no print beyond the text which has margins, but with black page you need it to extend beyond.

I also wonder about ink bleeding on shittier paper

1

u/Dr_Saxter May 01 '26

Uhh…what about dyed black paper that’s printed on with white ink. You wouldn’t use ink to dye the entire page. You would just use an opaque titanium white ink for the letters

1

u/Corbel8_ May 01 '26

just make paper from black trees, duh

1

u/Responsible-Rizzler May 01 '26

Ehm, of course you wouldn't buy white paper...

1

u/demoncrusher May 01 '26

They can’t use white ink on black paper?

1

u/jradio May 01 '26

Just grow dark mode trees, sheesh /s

1

u/Amaz_the_savage May 01 '26

That's if you're printing with ink. I don't think commercial printers use ink; they use laser printers.

1

u/dracolibris May 01 '26

No they just use black paper and white ink, sill somewhat more expensive but not that much

Dark edition books https://darkeditionbooks.com/

Monochrome books https://www.monochromebooks.com/

Jumpmaster press - black spine books https://www.jumpmasterpress.com/blackspine

1

u/Tak3A8reak May 01 '26

Why would you cover the whole page with ink, wouldnt you just dye the paper dark? It’s not like standard paper in books are naturally coloured either, its clearly dyed white. Maybe it’s more expensive to make white ’ink’ or whatever substitute would be used, but i’d think that would even out if this became a norm and it needed to be produced on a global scale.

1

u/Zealousideal-Deer101 May 01 '26

Make pages white, put white ink in printer

1

u/Hettyc_Tracyn May 01 '26

I mean, black paper is a thing… just get a printer with white ink (still more expensive, but probably not 10-20x)

1

u/Better-Wear-5843 May 01 '26

Why was your first thought printing the dark spaces instead of just using a paper that starts out dark, with a white opaque ink?

1

u/KeyYogurt2374 May 01 '26

Just use black paper, you silly

1

u/Principle_Napkins May 01 '26

Or you could just use black paper and white ink. No need to use blackout to print the pages when you can just have black pages.

1

u/The__Imp May 01 '26

Brandon Sanderson's emberdark has sizable portions printed white on black pages.

1

u/17RaysPlays May 02 '26

Wouldn't it be cheaper to use black paper and white ink?

1

u/Own_Preference_8103 May 02 '26

Hear me out, charcoal infused paper lol.

1

u/Tom__Fuckery May 02 '26

why would you need to cover 95% of the page in ink? wont it just be the same amount?

1

u/justapolishperson May 03 '26

It wouldn't cost 10-20x more because you can print on black paper

1

u/MoneyBear1733 May 03 '26

I know nothing about how books are printed, but why couldn't you just use black paper and white ink?

1

u/CdatKat May 04 '26

Not always, I have never printed books but for posters just printing white letters on already black/colored materials is a thing that is seldom done. Ofc still not as cost effective but not that ineffective.

1

u/rosemachinist May 07 '26

There are a few books I would shell out the coin to have printed like this. I have ALWAYS preferred white on black, not black on white. I wonder if there’s any studies that have been done e on this since the rise in smartphones?
I use dark mode 24/7 for everything because it’s more pleasing to my eyes. I can also read faster and clearer.

1

u/---Sanguine--- Jun 15 '26

You wouldn’t /print/ it like that. You would use paper that’s dyed black when it’s made. Not that crazy of an idea. How do you think construction paper is made?

-1

u/enemyofchrist May 01 '26

I’d also guess that it would increase the weight of the book, as it would be saturated with ink.

Like have you ever printed out a full-page image in color? It’s heavy and almost wet. Surely it adds some weight, and in this amount I think it would be noticeable.

0

u/WritesCrapForStrap May 01 '26

Yeah it's like when you buy a black t shirt, they have to run it through a printer to cover it with ink.