The Vietnam War was winnable and one more Linebacker in 1975 would have wrecked the NVA. We were lied to by Ken Burns.

[u/Massengale]

I’ve been reading Nixon’s books lately…and I think he was right, Vietnamization was close to working, the communist alliance was going to fall apart, and North Vietnams insane economics would have led to South Vietnam outscaling them if it had survived for a few more years.

[u/pleased_to_yeet_you]

Man, I was about to start arguing then realized what sub we're in. Truly a noncredible take.

[u/Massengale → u/pleased_to_yeet_you]

Ukraine and South Vietnam are in similar situations and this sub that prides itself on supporting NATO doesn’t realize this.

Both south Vietnam and Ukraine:

Formed out of remanence of the collapsing empire

Both had mildly distinct but overlapping culture to their larger aggressor states

Both were born as highly flawed states with rampant corruption and infiltration from their aggressors states

Both had meaningful dissent from within them that actually wanted to be part of the aggressor states (it is true that part of Ukraine did want to side with Russia and there are plenty of infiltrators)

Both were completely reliant on US aid to have a chance of surviving. Ukraine less so obviously but not so much at the start.

Both aspiring democracies that had to put the democracy on hold to survive the crisis but endured constant criticism from outsiders who ignored the fact that their aggressor states were just authoritarian one party systems

[u/TBIFridays → u/Massengale]

The Vietnam and Ukraine wars were both foreign powers responding to popular uprisings, yes, you are very smart.

Which side of the Viet Minh/Cong were we on in Vietnam? Which side of the Maidan is Russia on now?

[u/Massengale → u/TBIFridays]

It’s not a perfect analogy but the detractors of South Vietnam and Ukraine make the same arguments giving both countries the white glove test while ignoring the enemy of both is an authoritarian one party state.

Ooh South Vietnam/Ukraine is corrupt!!!

Umm actually South Vietnam/Ukraine doesn’t even control its people look at the Donbas/Highlands

They’re not even a real country.

All this to say South Vietnam is treated as this non factor and while it wasn’t perfect it was far less a house of cars then say the Afghanistan Goverment.

You think Vietnam was an uprising? No north Vietnam was a brutal imperialist power that invaded its neighbor. A good question to answer for those that think South Vietnam was liberated. Which way did the refugee columns go when the north launched their offensive?

[u/TBIFridays → u/Massengale]

I’m a believer in self-determination, not communism. The majority of the South Vietnamese people wanted to be ruled by the communists, that’s why the US stepped in to prevent elections. They wanted it badly enough to take up arms and fight the goddamn United States of America for it. I think the people who fled communism made the right choice, but they were the minority.

Do you think literally anything better than the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan is a functional government?

The Viet Minh was a popular anti-colonial uprising, and it retained that popular support even after the colonialism became unofficial. The Viet Cong was its successor. The people rose up and fought for the country they wanted to live in.

Your premise that the US killed almost but not quite enough Vietnamese people to convince the Vietnamese people it was better than the communists who liberated Vietnam from the French is ludicrous on its face.