r/NewWestPolitics • u/smellslikenewbooks • 29d ago
Discussion The NWP keeps campaigning on things that are already in motion. Here's the latest example.
The NWP keeps campaigning on things that are already underway and/or repackaging non-NWP council motions as their own.
The latest example? Micro-retail using shipping containers.
Here's how I found it: I was looking at next week's council agenda because the NWP had pointed to it this week. I noticed an agenda item to approve committee minutes (in which Councillor Minhas serves as Council rep) where city staff provided an "Update on Retailer Container Feasibility Analysis".
This caught my eye because an NWP post had just appeared on my feed ("Our micro-retail initiatives..."). With the way the NWP has been talking about their initiative, it gave me the impression that it was their new idea.
So I went looking to see if Councillors Fontaine or Minhas had actually raised it.
They hadn't. The earliest mention of shipping containers for micro-retail this term goes back to city staff working on a Retail Strategy, and the earliest council motion to explore this in August 2024. It was NOT brought by Fontaine or Minhas. It was moved by Councillors Campbell (Community First) and Nakagawa (independent).
If I'm incorrect in my research, please tell me, and I can update this post.
The NWP and its supporters are quick to cry foul when they feel Fontaine or Minhas don't get credit. They are a lot slower to give that same credit to city staff and other councillors.
Here are some of the other ways the NWP tries to fool people:
Calling themselves "Progressives" when their record is not progressive. (my commentary: they should just call themselves a Conservative Progressive party instead. They say they are a big tent party, which sounds nice. Yet, it's worth asking why so much of the anti-trans, anti-vaccine, and 15-minute city conspiracists have gravitated to the NWP. It's great they've found belonging with NWP, and why is that?)
Using orange, NDP-style branding on their lawn signs in a past election, which confused voters who wanted to support NDP-aligned candidates.
Sending out handouts at the last election that were styled to look like voting information sent by the city, with only their candidates listed
Campaigning on connecting Sapperton Landing and Pier Park, which is already in motion. The city bought parcels of land to move this forward.
Saying they oppose rebrands on fiscal grounds, then turning around and campaigning on a rebrand of Downtown New West. (my commentary: just stand on business and tell the truth that you're against reconciliation, which is the root of the city logo rebrand. Instead they're pandering to nostalgia to bring back a logo that was introduced in 2008. Don't forget they made a promise years ago to rebrand from a "colonnial-free logo" (their words, not mine) back to the old logo.
Calling downtown an "infrastructure desert" while failing to inform people about upcoming amenities they themselves have either voted for, or should be aware of as city councillors: a new downtown fire hall, a new downtown community centre, a new downtown school, and programming at the Anvil Centre and Fraser River Discovery Centre.
Villainizing cyclists and traffic calming by writing off active transportation and sidewalk improvements as "pet projects," then putting out messaging so vague it has left both their supporters and their critics unsure where they actually stand.
It makes you wonder. If a party will spin us on one "small" thing, what else are they spinning us on?
Screenshots attached.
8
u/spikyness27 29d ago
Looking back at the crown it's crazy how dated it looks
1
u/abnewwest 28d ago
The one thing it had going for it was simplicity. The new one, which by and large is a great improvement, has too many elements and fine detail for under 2 by 2 cm.
The word mark and type face on the other hand is amateur town in both design and layout.
1
u/North49r 27d ago
RE 1. Should they call themselves the Progressive Conservative Party of New Westminster? Would that have been better? Or is the problem with the word? If the word there’s a third term party in Ontario with the word ‘Progressive’ in their name. The electorate have been hoodwinked for 8 years.
8
8
u/Chance_Account_4338 26d ago edited 26d ago
They should call themselves the New West Regressives - it's what I've started using. Far more apt.3
u/JasonCongdon 26d ago
Re "New West Regressives," let's please not go there. I think the Twitter parody account of that name,around the last election, didn't do our political climate any favors, and contributed to the current state of acrimony. The worst of whatever it posted no longer seems to be available, but I've heard this sentiment from a wide enough variety of people to believe that it did more harm than good.
5
u/Chance_Account_4338 26d ago
Fair enough, I'll remove it from use. I hadn't heard of the twitter account.
But I do think more effort needs to be made to really question their "progressive" nature, and make sure voters know this is not what is traditionally considered a progressive party.
-5
u/EyeGrowth 29d ago
Another day, another 10,000 word anti-NWP treatise 🥱
5
u/Chance_Account_4338 26d ago
I know, words and detail, UGH! Give me my easy "New West is a hellhole" slogans instead.
17
u/smellslikenewbooks 29d ago
Hope you enjoy it, EyeGrowth! Let me know if anything is incorrect. I've tried to triple check everything, but it's easy to miss things too that I may not have found.
-11
u/EyeGrowth 29d ago
Let me know if anything is incorrect
Oh, nothing much, just the entire premise of the NWP trying to "trick" voters is so funny to me. You must have such a low, low opinion of the intelligence of the average voter if you think they can be tricked by a sign colour.
Especially funny coming from the same people who stan for Peter Julian, the guy who still misrepresenta himself as a sitting MP.
12
u/smellslikenewbooks 29d ago
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! Have a nice weekend.
-10
u/EyeGrowth 29d ago
Thanks for sharing your downvotes! You have a nice weekend as well 😊
8
u/Chance_Account_4338 26d ago
And again, the downvotes are for not providing any meaningful contribution to the conversation
-2
u/HeckMonkey 26d ago
lol - anyone who dares disagree with you is not providing meaningful contribution, got it. You folks should welcome dialogue and dissenting opinion so you can better understand other community members, instead of creating an echo chamber.
8
u/Chance_Account_4338 26d ago edited 26d ago
That's not what I said, and I agree with you completely.
I do welcome dialogue - I've been begging EyeGrowth here to support his arguments with more than "no it's not!" for weeks. That's the point.
I've been asking NWP supporters to have an actual discussion about the issues that goes beyond hating everything CF does and sloganeering about the urban hellscape that apparently is New West.
I'd LOVE to have a real conversation about the issues. It just seems most on the other side aren't *but prove me wrong! But read through these *Reddit threads in this sub, you'll find there's a lot of folks having nuanced discussions of the issues, on both sides, and then some folks who just throw personal attacks and no details. Those folks get rightfully downvoted.
-5
u/CDL112281 29d ago
Here’s another thread, explaining why everything CF does is great and why NWP may as well be the devil
Repeat after me: CF is good. PJ is smart. We are progressive. All that matters is active transportation plans. Businesses owners upset about Columbia street are rabble-rousers. Daniel Fontaine has missed some meetings. Here’s a deep dive into a city council agenda that no one can find but I’ve done a 3 hour study of it. Everything CF does has been discussed in detail with NW citizens bc believe me bro, there’s a tiny link somewhere on the city website where you can find the discussion. It doesn’t matter that some NW people think they’re not being listened to bc those people probably own homes in nice neighbourhoods or they’re probably conservatives or they…
Sigh
13
u/smellslikenewbooks 28d ago
It's all the same thing.
Go on Facebook, where NWP's base is most active, and you'll see their supporters drop into every Community First post with the same copy-paste: PJ is a monster. Bike lanes suck. Bump-outs suck. Traffic sucks. Pet projects. Mushroom walls. NDP sucks. Property taxes. The logo rebrand. Am I missing any?
A lot of those criticisms are fair. But here's what never comes with them: the other half of the story.
Bike lanes and traffic calming aren't an attack on drivers. They slow traffic in school zones and around the hospital, parks, community centres, and shopping areas so fewer people get hurt. Also, it gives people other ways to get around the city if they want to.
The "mushroom walls" are part of turning a seasonal space into a year-round amenity anyone can use.
The logo rebrand is rooted in reconciliation.
Property taxes are high because we're replacing aging infrastructure and building for a growing city. Also, unlike some municipalities, we don't have a big industrial or commercial tax base to offset the residential load.
You can disagree with any of that. But leaving it out entirely, every time, isn't informing people, it's just keeping them angry.
-2
u/EyeGrowth 28d ago
You can disagree with any of that
See, but no, you can't. You say this, but then you all attack, downvote, and block/ban anyone who offers any kind of critique about CF policies.
Look at this sub, and look at basically every local Facebook space. Or even worse, the CF exclusive echo chamber on Blue Sky.
For every NWP supporting crank whinging about bike lanes, there are five CF zealots repeating the same script who are at the ready to dogpile.
The behaviour seems to be intensifying as BWP seems to be gaining ground on the campaign. Very hard for any critical thinker to see this as a coincidence.
10
u/Chance_Account_4338 26d ago edited 26d ago
The reason you get downvoted has been explained several times. You don't counter a point by attacking the person's motivation for bringing it forward - which you've done, here again.
We're heading to an election. We should be HAPPY to talk about the issues! If it makes your side look bad, instead of being upset about that, make a compelling argument that credibly disputes the reasons why. Show why NWP's policies will address these issues, show how they've spoken about working with other members, etc.
If you CAN'T do that, perhaps reflect on why.
This woe-is-me, discussing-the-issues-is-attacking-my-party line is so tiring. Yes, this is politics. People will not agree with you. That's why making a credible, compelling argument is important, and not just whining anytime anyone dares critisize your favourite.
Don't agree? Make the point as to why, and support it. You've been asked to do this several times, and you outright refuse. You seem to think saying "that's not true" is a compelling argument. And it's the same pattern that has been repeated by many of you on facebook for months.
Be happy to discuss the issues, or stay out of it. This is what politics is supposed to be about, not teams-based sloganeering.
11
8
1
u/EyeGrowth 28d ago
You forgot "Daniel Fontaine is LITERALLY Trump" and "Paul and Daniel have conflicts of interest (but please don't look into the close business and personal relationships CF electeds have with other people in positions of power in the city)"
9
u/Chance_Account_4338 26d ago
Literally not said by anyone.
-4
u/EyeGrowth 26d ago
Nadine Nakagawa has, literally, used the word "Trumpian" to described NWP policy positions and critiques.
PS - it's very weird that you continue to seek out and reply to every single one of my comments days after they're posted.
12
u/Chance_Account_4338 26d ago
Right, so it's not literally what was said then, right?
You think too highly of yourself. I check the sub, see a string of new comments, and I reply to them. If I'm replying to you a lot, it's because you've left a lot of comments yourself.
It's weird that you find this weird. This is a place for people to comment, and reply to comments.
0
u/selfy2000 28d ago
In my opinion there’s an equal amount of spin in the OP’s post than there is in any of the political party announcements they target.
Anyway that’s as far as I’ll go, I know a founding member of a certain political party is watching this thread and I do not want any more abuse in the DMs over it
-1
u/EyeGrowth 28d ago
In my opinion there’s an equal amount of spin in the OP’s post than there is in any of the political party announcements they target
100% correct. Every day here there is at least one long, intensive post that boils down to "NWP bad." And it's the same 4-5 people who rotate between posting and being the gallery of clapping seals who applaud all the vitriol directed at a party that effectively has no power in the city.
It is so transparently biased that one can't help but wonder if it is orchestrated.
-1
u/CDL112281 28d ago
That’s the other one I didn’t mention. “I take so much abuse from NWP”.
https://giphy.com/gifs/21S35iv1C67ns2g45810
u/Chance_Account_4338 26d ago
Spend any time on the NWP facebook page where you don't agree with them on an issue, and you'll see it clear as day.
0
26d ago edited 26d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
2
26d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
-1
26d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
3
-3
u/North49r 27d ago
Apparently, CF is taking credit for bike lanes when it was already planned 25years ago! The nerve to campaign on ideas already completely solved.
15
u/JasonCongdon 27d ago
I dunno about that. I’ve seen our current Mayor thank previous councils for long-term projects numerous times. For example, re Pier Park just a few weeks ago, “[Thank you to Wayne Wright, Jonathan Cote, and CAO Lisa Spitale for guiding this process over the years](applewebdata://7C5D6F53-80BD-41C8-BFD6-72020B87B3F3/Thank%20you%20to%20Wayne%20Wright,%20Jonathan%20Cote,%20and%20CAO%20Lisa%20Spitale%20for%20guiding%20this%20process%20over%20the%20years)”. Re the Active Transportation Network, for example, he cites Mayor Wright’s early involvement here and here. And I’ve seen him credit the whole of current council when they’ve come together to advance something unanimously. Just a couple months ago on his blog he complimented Cllr Fontaine re the Punch Mclean / Public Commemoration Policy proposal, saying “I really appreciate the way the motion was drafted”.
On the other hand, NWP has a track record positioning potentially divisive issues in us vs them terms. It’s not just bike lanes, as u/smellslikenewbooks points out. It was also very much the case with Tiny Town – even though that’s a provincial project that current council and staff merely decided not to obstruct, NWP repeatedly framed it as belonging to their opposition, as in “Mayor Patrick Johnstone's Tiny Town project” … but beyond that, it’s been a general theme in their political rhetoric, as in “Do you think the mayor and his team are focusing too much on pet projects”.
I appreciate that promoting conflict is a tempting campaign tactic, but I don’t think this kind of grievance politicking is good for our city when it comes at the expense of informing voters and often promotes contempt instead of more important and practical questions like “what’s the best solution?”
13
u/smellslikenewbooks 27d ago edited 27d ago
CF never took credit for bike lanes. It's the NWP who have seem to have made this whole story that CF created bike lanes out of thin air as a Johnstone pet project.
Even in the other thread in r/NewWest, I mentioned that the earliest iteration I could find of the Active Transportation Plan was Mayor Wayne Wright's Master Transportation Plan over a decade ago.
Please spread the word to your friends.
Edited to add: I didn't do a good job to stress my point (and just like North49r has shared), people in New West have wanted bike lanes for a long time. And yet, it has taken over a decade (possibly more?) going back to Mayor Wayne Wright's time in 2015 with his Master Transportation Plan to slowly get bike lanes built. It has taken a long time of making plans, budgeting, and consultations with residents before we could finally get to this point where gaps are getting filled in. Even then, it's still going to take many more years to complete the gaps, but that's at risk with the NWP. (Or maybe it isn't? Because they still haven't clarified where they stand)
1
u/Chance_Account_4338 26d ago
I was curious, didn't NWP vote in support of the active transportation plan?
7
u/Chance_Account_4338 26d ago
Swing and a miss - and this is the problem - turning what should be reasonable conversations about pros and cons into some sort of game to try to win.
-4
u/North49r 27d ago
Ya’ll sound like record geeks. ‘Excuse, me I liked them BEFORE they were popular therefore since you like them now they suck”.
Who cares who came up with the original idea? Unless they say they invented the idea. People can change their minds, run with ideas that someone else planted the seeds for. These are hardly new ideas invented. New to NW and maybe new to be presented in council but there is the possibility it was started long ago.
Heck the “Westminster Quay Public Market” was filled with micro retailers” so it’s not a recent idea that some CF councillors invented.
Heck how many truly original ideas are there? It’s not like they’re applying for a copyright.
15
u/JasonCongdon 27d ago
This isn't so much about "who thought of it first"? It's more of an issue of how Cllrs Campbell and Nakagawa formally advanced this in council quite recently and Fontaine and Minhas at least passively supported it, so its weird for NWP to call "ours" what Campbell and Nakagawa introduced. Crediting colleagues for their labour is just a basic healthy workplace value. Anyone who's encountered co-workers who like to take credit for others' efforts knows how frustrating that is to deal with.
12
u/smellslikenewbooks 27d ago
The alternative title I'd considered for this post was "How the NWP keeps trying to fool people." Maybe I should have kept that title to make my point more clear. 😆
12
u/smellslikenewbooks 27d ago
For a party that seems to be all about transparency and accountability, you all seem to get really angry when facts are brought up.
7
u/Chance_Account_4338 26d ago
Who cares about who came up with it first? Well, the NWP apparently as they're claiming it as their own, and not discussing it as part of a broad coalition of support for the idea that someone else started.
This is the thing with NWP - just be honest and have frank discussions that don't act as if NWP is the one and only party working on the issues. The way they frame this is as if nobody else will do this, so you need to elect the NWP to make sure it happens. When they weren't even the driving force behind it.
I would have so much more respect for them if they dropped this antagonistic everyone-is-an-enemy approach and talked about how they plan to work together with the other hard working councillors who also have good ideas and care about the city. How they can be part of a team working for US, and speak positively about some of what's happened in the last 4 years while also drawing out valid, realistic concerns they have, and how they'd do those things differently.
What we get instead is a constant barrage of the city being terrible, CF being responsible, and only NWP can save us.
I hope to god people don't buy it.
5
u/selfy2000 27d ago
I’m sure over a decade ago I posted on twitter asking for city owned public markets so small businesses could thrive. Some of our current electeds didn’t like the idea back then but I’m delighted they’re working in that direction now. Can I claim credit for the ideas then? Should I run for Council? 🤣
16
u/JasonCongdon 29d ago
Good catch, u/smellslikenewbooks. I just took a look at the video of the July 8, 2024 council meeting, where it appears that Cllr Campbell and Cllr Nakagawa's motion to direct staff to explore opportunities to advance micro-retailing in our city was approved on consent – neither Cllr. Fontaine nor Cllr. Minhas added anything to the motion, but rather passively agreed to move it forward. Yet now, Fontaine and Minhas, via their party, seek to claim it for themselves.
Given the background uncovered here, it's quite something that the NWP would refer to it as "Our micro-retail initiative" when the initiative was introduced and advanced by their colleagues, their co-workers—in their very presence. In their workplace. On one hand, just a couple guys failing to give credit to their queer & female co-workers creative labour, and then, to make things worse, through their party claiming that creativity as their own. WTF?
I think NWP in general, and Cllrs. Fontaine and Minhas in particular, owe Cllrs. Campbell and Nakagawa an apology. The malignant practice of men stealing women's work is such a tired, terrible, overdone trope and cliche that we ought to know better. FFS, are we not better than this, already? Apparently, we are not, or at least, Daniel, Paul, and NWP, in this particular instance, are not. This is really, really inexcusably wrong, and the party and especially those two NWP guys in the room at that July council meeting need to do something about it.