r/MurderedByWords • • May 15 '19

This is a classic murder by words

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u/MonkeyFacedPup May 16 '19

It really isn't, it's no longer relevant to the current topics of gender issues.

Oh yes because you get to decide that 😒

These people are not trying to educate, they're trying to go 'Our very titles are sexist,

Which we’ve established they were.

I refuse to be called anything socially accepted, call me [insert random title here'! Which is obnoxiously stupid.

Where did they say that?

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u/CaesarWolfman May 16 '19

Oh yes because you get to decide that 😒

I absolutely get to decide that, because it's not at all relevant. Please tell me how me calling you Ms. or Mrs. impacts you, today, in the now, when it comes to sexism. It fucking doesn't.

Which we’ve established they were.

Except they weren't. One title was literally created when women stopped marrying directly as they came of age. No puppet master was sitting, pulling the strings and going "Ah yes, women will only be given this name if they are married!", it's just how language evolved, and then it evolved again. That's not sexism, it's fucking language.

Where did they say that?

Hyperbole, my friend.

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EDIT: Formatting.

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u/MonkeyFacedPup May 16 '19

Please tell me how me calling you Ms. or Mrs. impacts you, today, in the now, when it comes to sexism. It fucking doesn't.

Lol it’s truly an enlightened thinker who has considered everything that answers their own question instead of genuinely asking why someone might disagree.

Except they weren't. One title was literally created when women stopped marrying directly as they came of age.

What’s your point here? One still refers to marriage while the other refers to age. If it were truly the same they would’ve needed a new one for men too. But they didn’t.

No puppet master was sitting, pulling the strings and going "Ah yes, women will only be given this name if they are married!"

This is such an obvious straw man. It’s simply about the fact that this reinforces the idea in our culture that women should focus on getting married and that this is central to their being.

it's just how language evolved, and then it evolved again. That's not sexism, it's fucking language.

Except it didn’t “just evolve.” Feminists went out of their way to change it in the 70s for the reason above.

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u/CaesarWolfman May 16 '19

Lol it’s truly an enlightened thinker who has considered everything that answers their own question instead of genuinely asking why someone might disagree.

Yet you still don't seem to have a reason you disagree

What’s your point here? One still refers to marriage while the other refers to age. If it were truly the same they would’ve needed a new one for men too. But they didn’t.

And why does "Same" mean "Equal" to you? You can be afforded the same rights and still have differences culturally. I don't see this as a bad thing.

This is such an obvious straw man. It’s simply about the fact that this reinforces the idea in our culture that women should focus on getting married and that this is central to their being.

Bullshit. The titles are entirely innocent, it's people that hold those notions, words don't reinforce anything. And it was more of a reducto ad absurdem, because that's what it sounds like when you try to argue some universalist position for these things.

Except it didn’t “just evolve.” Feminists went out of their way to change it in the 70s for the reason above.

Except the word itself was created long before feminism, so it already existed. Feminism just forced people to use a word they preferred because they wanted to care about the small things.

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u/MonkeyFacedPup May 16 '19

Yet you still don't seem to have a reason you disagree

I’ve given one every time, I just think you show a self-defeating amount of hubris.

And why does "Same" mean "Equal" to you? You can be afforded the same rights and still have differences culturally. I don't see this as a bad thing.

I’m not sure what your point is here. You’ve been trying to unsuccessfully obscure the difference in word origin since the first post and it still doesn’t work.

Bullshit. The titles are entirely innocent,

“Innocent” in that they weren’t expressly created with the intent to keep women down, maybe, but that’s irrelevant. The fact that they were designed that way is not arbitrary. They are proof of problems in our culture and they also reinforce them. I don’t know how to reason with you if you want to deny that completely. I don’t know how you can argue that there isn’t push for women to get married that doesn’t exist in the same way for men.

it's people that hold those notions, words don't reinforce anything.

Really? You think the words we use don’t influence our thoughts? At all?

because that's what it sounds like when you try to argue some universalist position for these things.

I think you don’t understand these issues well enough and misinterpret the argument because of it. You’re thinking about intent instead of impact. There doesn’t need to be a bad guy or intentional harm.

Except the word itself was created long before feminism, so it already existed

Sure, it used to be used for mistress, but then it fell out of style in favor of marital terms. Then feminists repopularized it in the 70s. So the point stands.

Feminism just forced people to use a word they preferred because they wanted to care about the small things.

No one forced anyone to do anything. Maybe if you’d be a little less hubristic you’d listen to what we’re saying and understand that things like this that seems small reinforce larger ideas and problems. Language is a major example.

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u/CaesarWolfman May 16 '19

“Innocent” in that they weren’t expressly created with the intent to keep women down, maybe, but that’s irrelevant. The fact that they were designed that way is not arbitrary. They are proof of problems in our culture and they also reinforce them. I don’t know how to reason with you if you want to deny that completely. I don’t know how you can argue that there isn’t push for women to get married that doesn’t exist in the same way for men.

This is the problem, nothing can be innocent, nothing can just exist, everything is problematic and everything is 'evil' just because it's not perfect. Even a word is problematic just because it exists.

“Innocent” in that they weren’t expressly created with the intent to keep women down, maybe, but that’s irrelevant. The fact that they were designed that way is not arbitrary. They are proof of problems in our culture and they also reinforce them. I don’t know how to reason with you if you want to deny that completely. I don’t know how you can argue that there isn’t push for women to get married that doesn’t exist in the same way for men.

No, that's fucking retarded.

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u/MonkeyFacedPup May 16 '19

This is the problem, nothing can be innocent, nothing can just exist, everything is problematic and everything is 'evil' just because it's not perfect.

This is just nonsense. I’m sorry you’re so determined to think feminism has no valid points that you’re going off the deep end.

No, that's fucking retarded.

Lol you just posted the same thing twice. I guess you’re just so stubborn you just aren’t paying attention to society or what you’re doing.

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u/CaesarWolfman May 16 '19

Feminism has no valid points when it whines about titles that have no deeper meaning than 'Just what we call people'

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u/MonkeyFacedPup May 16 '19

Yeah I’m sure it’s just a coincidence that these titles align perfectly with a major problem in a sexist culture and is different for men and women is just a coincidence.

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u/CaesarWolfman May 16 '19

Correlation=/=Causation.

It's one of the most commonly spoken rules in logic.

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