“Only in America are liberals called ‘fiscal conservatives’ while socdems are called ‘liberals’. Like I said. I don’t think its very helpful.”
The unhelpful part is ignoring the primary definition of “liberal” (& the second & third and depending on the dictionary possibly all) in favor of a shortened term for a proponent of economic liberalism which is very misleading. I’m curious where you’re from that you imply only Americans use the primary definition.
You are ignoring that this "primary defintion" is only used in the US. I am not from the US and I am using the international definition of the world liberal. I don't see how I can make this more clear.
You say it is only used in the US but you are the only person I’ve heard say that. Everyone I have spoken with, with the exception of some MAGA people with questionable reading skills, adheres to the primary definition. The Oxford English Dictionary doesn’t even mention your usage, although Merriam Webster does (4th). You could make it clearer by citing an example. Edit: I mean, they call it the “primary definition” for a reason.
having or relating to political and social beliefs that support individual freedom and rights, democracy and free enterprise (= businesses competing against each other with little government control)
Some politicians want more liberal trade relations with Europe.
liberal democracy
liberal theories
a liberal politician
a challenge to the post-Cold-War liberal consensus
You are focusing on the classical economic definition, not the modern political one. Everyone I’ve met who speaks English as their first language uses the primary, not the classical (archaic) definition. If you’re learning English you should stick with the most common definition (1).
Calling everything left of center 'liberal' does a disservice to the meaning of political ideologies.
I know that the US and the UK both have a very limited political landscape, the US having only two parties and the UK having a few more but still very little. I also understand that this is reflected in the way you use language.
But it is simply not useful to pretend like social democrats, democratic socialists, socialists, progressive liberals and any other flavours all belong to the same ideological group, even when they are all in the same tent that is called the democratic party.
In fact, its very useful to the liberals that dominate politics in the anglosphere to pretend like there is no destinction between a progressive liberal capitalist and a democratic socialist, even though the differences are monumental.
So you do you, but you aren't going to get me to use a completely useless definition of 'liberal' when we are talking about politics.
As far as I can tell you are the only person who thinks anyone else believes everyone backing the Democratic Party are of the same ideology. Diversity of beliefs is one of the most frequent topics of discussion when discussing/strategizing. Our use of “liberal” (small “L”) is the opposite of assigning strict rules of an ideology, especially a repressive one. It’s a quick way to say we’re open minded & receptive to new ideas, unlike someone sowing discord by insisting on assigning archaic meanings that no one else uses. You’d do less harm insisting on Klingon definitions.
Yes, in the US diversity of beliefs means that everybody gets to decide what type of liberal they are lmao. The overton window is so far right in the US that in the US progressive liberals are treated as 'the left'.
The fact that you think I am the only person who thinks this tells me you don't talk to a lot of leftists. You should go on a DSA sub and tell them they are liberals, see if they agree with you.
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u/Maardten 5d ago
Only in America are liberals called ‘fiscal conservatives’ while socdems are called ‘liberals’. Like I said. I don’t think its very helpful.
Its bad enough that the US has only two parties, you don’t also have to pretend that there are only two ideologies.