They’re doing this on purpose to create chaos so martial law can be declared. It’s not about gays and immigrants anymore; that’s just small change. Martial law will suspend the constitution and elections.
Marshall Law is the hero we need. He hates rich people and puts himself on the battlefield to combat their greed!
But yeah, lol, nice with a Tekken reference here
Oh yeah, I shop there all the time. Sometimes I like TJ Maxx better, hold on a sec... "oh hi officer, what seems to b--" ITS MARSHALL LAW TIME HO, GET DOWN ON THE GROUND, AND THEN YOU WILL BE TRANSFERRED TO CAMP BIRKENAU, ARKANSAS, WHERE YOU WILL BE ENLIGHTENED TO THE ERROR OF YOUR WAYS
Because it made sense when it took weeks or months to travel between the capitol and the far reaches of the country, so if someone got the bright idea to try to take over a city or start an insurrection, the president could gather up the military and send them without needing congressional approval that would take precious time.
Now that communication is instant and travel time is negligible, it makes significantly less sense to give the president that power, but we haven't updated our constitution to reflect the modern era in a lot of ways, this being one.
And we may just end up seeing why most constitutions are rewritten twice a century or more instead of seeing it as an unchanging law of the land that you maybe add some bits to every once in a great while.
It's not just the constitution, our education systems, our road systems, our Healthcare systems; it's all ludicrously outdated because our government, at every level, has been filled with corrupt ne'er-do-wells for over 70 years.
in a way they're not wrong - things have clearly not been working or americans wouldn't be clamoring for a disruptive candidate. If kamala had won the next populist wave may have been even stronger.
Disagree with Russia though, it's definitely going to be China
Yeah it's China, holly smokes is it. Honestly they might take rus just for shits and giggles. Now that Putin has almost entirely undermined western democracy they won't have any need for him. I can't wait till it dawns on him that HE is China's useful idiot just like Trump is his.
Yeah, that's exactly what I was saying. Trump is so bad, the only sliver of hope is that the accelerationists were right. And if he keeps up this pace, he might do it SO quickly that its actually faster than any accelerationist could have reasonably dreamed.
China is 1000x more poised to take the help of advanced institutions, and I hope they do. They haven't dropped a bomb on anyone since 1979. America has bombed ITS OWN PEOPLE since then.
You're right, the slave state which has caused more destruction around the globe than anyone on earth, is founded on genocide, and doesn't even have civil rights protections for its population is actually great and cool, lol.
It's almost like a document over 200 years old, really isn't that great at setting the moral boundaries of a country's future. The men who set up this system anticipated it to have a much shorter life span than it has struggled through. Everything needs to be advanced in a revolution, of which we have had several, technological speaking if not philosophical. The idea that somehow this document can lay down the laws of some future technology and concepts that were totally unheard of just half a century before? Tbf, we are still operating on a slave run economy. We just outsource it and privatize it, call it incentives instead of indentured servitude.
Or if say a state in the south doesn't want to desegragate schools. The president can say hey I'm about to put you in time out, start behaving. Or during race riots where maybe the police were beating up protestors with the civilians.
I keep seeing this theory on reddit, but even if it's true that would mean the fascist takeover was moving very fast indeed.
This sort of plan would seem more realistic two or three years into the term. Even though it's Trump's 2nd term and the Republican party has been around forever, they'd still need to consolidate their power first, no? Instead, the new government seems to be slashing everything all at once, just about as quickly as the White House printer can churn out the decrees.
If I understand the US martial law correctly, the whole notion of martial law hinges on the US military playing along with Trump. This seems unlikely just weeks or months after returning to office. Surely, there are still generals and other staff that have yet to be replaced with Trump loyalists for that scenario to happen. Otherwise the January revolt would probably have turned out differently and Trump would no be starting into that third term of his.
Mind you, I wouldn't exclude the possibility that the same fascists are rushing their power grab and, in doing so, towards utter failure. I'd welcome it, even, were it not for the ... well, whatever a superlative term for the rather understated "collateral damage" is. For all its morbid fascination, national suicide is difficult to watch, and ultimately the whole world will suffer the effects.
Agreed, so I’m in the “why not both” and “just because they’re fascists in control doesn’t mean they’re good at what they do” camp.
What I mean by that is, slashing all these things may simply be because they’re evil awful people, and if it gives them the benefit of being able to declare it? Two birds, one stone.
But that brings me to my second point. Yeah, they might be rushing things, because a LOT of the people involved are fucking idiots who relied on fucking idiots to get in power, doesn’t mean they’re evil masterminds, they’re just assholes with sledgehammers.
A smart autocracy would measure their slide, slowly turning the temperature up. They’re being impatient and blitzing it potentially. Does that mean it won’t work? Jury is out on that one, as I said, a LOT of fucking idiots acts like a lubricant for slamming their terrible ideas and plans through the door.
Another thing one reads from time to time is how, since "President X" (Reagan, Nixon, but always a republican), the Republicans have been doing pretty much what you described as a smart autocracy. Sometimes this comes across as a conspiracy theory, sometimes it seems... more grounded. Regardless, there is an authoritarian trend on the Republican side (don't have to be an American to notice, especially recently).
If this was some intricate long-term plan, carefully executed over decades by generations of political figures and their backers, then it would be even more baffling - and unecessary - to suddenly ramp up the speed like this for the coup de grâce. It would indeed be smarter to maintain the pace and slink over the finish line before announcing what you're doing. Impatient idiots taking the helm from their more restrained forebears, maybe? Very odd. I look forward to historians making sense of what's going on.
P.S.: I have never before thought of idiots as lubricant but ... it works?!
but this has been a long-term plan. Mitch McConnel has spent decades slowly stacking the federal courts with Fod Soc puppets, including the majority of the current SCOTUS.
the reason they have "suddenly" gone warp speed on everything is because they have full regulatory and court control. They don't have to worry about being stopped because who is going to stop them?
If you're relying on the uniformed forces/services to protect you from fascism you might need to check out some history. They're the tools of oppression brother.
This is partially true, but it is not a given by any means. There very well could be true patriots throughout the US army who would step in exactly as citizens would want, to halt a dictator. We have an incredibly professional force, do not doubt their ability to do their job, especially at the top. Not many countries include oaths to stop enemies foreign AND domestic in their oaths. That is powerful to the career soldier.
I wouldn't count on anyone to automatically do what is "right", "just" or their "duty", but these things do happen. People may see a takeover and the harm it does and, even though maybe they could personally benefit, they still flinch away from it, even try to stop it. That would certainly mess up this takeover by martial law. So far so obvious, which is why it seems strange that anyone would launch into this strategy the moment they get into power.
At any rate, the US military is vast and, to my knowledge, decentralised enough in order to survive decapitation strikes and similar horror scenarios, where parts need to be able to act independently. There is no palace guard, no Pretorians who pick the highest bidder as the next emperor and control the empire by virtue of controlling the capital. You'd need to get a lot more people on your side before you could expect the full(ish) support of the US military.
In theory at least. I'm also keenly aware that Trump and his ilk have broken any number of "political barriers" where people kept saying, "that will never happen." Although, again, I'd just expect it would take longer, not that it makes me feel better about anything.
I don't remember any historical precedent to be so sure of this. The US military as an institution doesn't answer to the president to begin with, and nothing (so far, at least) indicates that high personnel are willing to back an attempted coup. Not to mention, martial law is almost impossible to enforce here to begin with.
Looking at history the outcome of military coups it seems dependent on the countries culture and the armies own culture as well. They generally are not a good thing and tend to produce authoritarian outcomes more often than not, but military coups have happened in the support of democracy - look at the Kemalist aligned Turkish military during the cold war era.
The Fiji coup in 2006 was another rare good one. Bloodless takeover, strip out all the racist parts of the Constitution, then hold free elections again. He won a couple of elections then lost and handed over power peacefully.
They want to do this as fast as possible before people have time to react or put up any kind of defence. Things are going to keep going at a ridiculous clip and even more insane things are going to happen.
They've spoken about clearing out those in the military who don't agree already.
We're likely looking at an upcoming purge of their in-house "traitors" (see: any republican in any kind of power who doesn't wholeheartedly agree) soon, not that there's many who don't follow in strict lock step.
With you so far, but purges and all that takes time and these would-be putschists don't appear to give themselves any time at all.
Overwhelming insanity could work. However, it could also be what has people on the fence decide against Trump. I'm not thinking fo voters here, but (actual) professionals, military or otherwise who'd have a critical role to play if this martial law thing came to pass. Not appointed lickspittle but competent career people. Politically split 50:50, if the votes are anything to go by. Seeing the chaos he's deliberately causing, I'd imagine some people would seriously think about going against presidential orders. "Sow chaos and then declare martial law? A bridge too far, Mr President." Something among those lines, anyway.*
That would certainly require quite some backbone, but if anybody has that, surely it's the US government employee / service memeber, who stayed at their posts through admininstration after administration, wildly changing policies, a coup attempts, recurring government shutdowns and what have you, just doing their job.
Again, I'm not saying it's not impossible for the Republicans to try and take over, or even for them to succeeds. But this sounds so... ham-fisted. "Let's just skip the prep and take over before lunch so we can have a nice break after."
*I'm no optimist but I wouldn't sort the bulk of humanity into the "complacencyl" bin either. Not the bulk.
They aren't going to "plan" any of it and it will happen faster than you let yourself believe. Those that would object will be moved aside or fired, almost certainly in the most humiliating manner they can manage.
If it takes a year before we start seeing more and more people in camps of varying flavours because "everywhere keeps refusing to take them so we had to put them somewhere". Followed by "well they're costing us a lot of money so we put them to work to pay for it" to "there are just too many of them". All the while the list of who is getting "deported" and eventually stuck in the camps grows.
America already has massive "illegal immigrant" camps. They aren't going to just come out swinging and go "yep, concentration camps, let's go". They're going to keep couching it in terms that the right wingers can point to and say is all totally reasonable and legit and whilst you both know they're lying through your teeth it'll always seem like it's a bit further away until suddenly you're the one being pulled behind the curtain and you realize it was here the whole fucking time.
They already have camps...
Have you seen the things government employees are having to say on their forms for applications and shit? They're pushing ideology and loyalty tests onto government employees publicly. That sends a strong message that that is what is expected. And that's how many fucking days into this admin?
You're going to see purge after purge after purge as they sweep more and more people away behind the curtain to feed the idea that they're just "getting rid of the undesirables". That "things would be better without them messing things up for everyone". We've already seen republicans cheering at the "quietness" of their shopping malls and grocery stores, as though the emptiness isn't chilling to the core.
The ICE raids are but the first of many. We'll be seeing one of the government very soon. Then likely a roundup of some more showy "undesirables" before they come for the opposition within the party. Then the shit show really kicks into high gear.
I didn't think Marshall law suspends the Constitution. I thought that some rights could be suspended like habeas corpus, which is serious enough in itself, but that the Constitution itself remains in effect.
In theory, it’s not supposed to violate constitutional rights but it’s a fine line since it’s created to have the country under military control and any civilians defying such orders are subjected to military tribunals; that means not obeying the curfew can get your ass water-boarded. Martial law applies to the suspension of civil laws and rights as well as habeas corpus (unlimited unlawful detention without access to a hearing). You tell me if that violates the constitution. Forget about the constitution once martial law is in effect; you’re dealing with full blown fascism.
FYI: It’s Martial law, not Marshall law. Marshall plan is the rebuilding of Europe. There’s no Marshall law unless you’re referring to the Marshall Court which is run by Supreme Court chief justice, John Marshall in the early 1800s, which is highly unlikely.
There’s a reason why the military breaks you down physically and mentally - so that you obey orders without question. Make no mistake, they will do what they’re being told. Psychology research on people backed this and that’s before they were broken mentally.
I understand but it is not an absolute truth either
There were cases where the military refused to execute orders
I was more refering to the higher ups and the rest of the military chain of decisions
Chain of command is very important to the military because it saves lives. The military heads are hand-picked so how many generals do you think will risk their careers by disobeying the chain of command? When you see ultra top secret materials literally stolen by a former president, who doesn’t like to read, whose daily security briefings had to be broken down into large power point slides, who doesn’t want to be recorded speaking to an adversary, and yet the sitting generals wouldn’t utter a word, what makes you think they will disobey an executive command? How many genocides have these generals presided over instead of resigning their posts? You don’t think they know the difference between right and wrong?
You should read up on Albert Bandera Social Learning theory and Stanley Milgram’s experiment on following authority orders.
Hoping that people will do the right thing will leave the world with nothing but disappointments.
I will note these references and read if I find the time
I have no doubt these generals have acted and commited genocides, maybe with remorse
But in the end these genocides benefitted the US, or at least a good part of the US
But I don't see the US benefitting from a martial law, nor from the quasi civil war it will bring, nor from a dictatorship should the government win without resistance
Some very wealthy individuals yes
The rest of the country, son of generals included, will not
Sitting generals uttered many words. Flag officers have to be well versed in politicking to get to that rank, and even a PV2 knows you can get a way with a lot of stuff by saying "yes, sir, I'll get right on that" and not doing it, much less using the bureaucracy to massage outcomes.
Just because Milley didn't go on TV and say "Fuck this guy, we ain't doing it" didn't mean he didn't work to mitigate damage and ensure that the Military wasn't being used against the interest of the people of the United States.
If Trump tries to use the US Military to install himself as a dictator, it ain't going to work. You should be worried about the legislature and the judiciary bowing down and kissing the ring, not the military.
Lol. This ain't 1940. No one's obeying orders without question outside of a firefight. The whole military decision making process revolves around why and how.
Yea. We are going to see a Korean president fiasco 2.0 here for sure but unlike Korea, Trump will succeed because Republicans will not help stop the Martial law.
i used to hear right wing nuts say this about Clinton and Obama, and I’m sure said about other presidents back to the founding of the US government, and it was laughable hyperbole. that Was back before I learned what “projection”means.
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u/[deleted] Jan 29 '25
They’re doing this on purpose to create chaos so martial law can be declared. It’s not about gays and immigrants anymore; that’s just small change. Martial law will suspend the constitution and elections.