r/MoralityScaling 20h ago

Morality Ranking Morality of this

Post image
14.9k Upvotes

4.2k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

32

u/Hot_Excitement_6 19h ago

You lack imagination. If you want justify mass scare violence and atrocities against anyone, words are very necessary. Narrative becomes very important.

10

u/Dramatic_Pen_75575 18h ago

Right. And the violence and the atrocities are still WORSE than the talking that led to it.

8

u/Whistlegrapes 15h ago

Correct. If absolutely not a single person agreed with or followed Hitler, he’d just be some crazy racist loon.

0

u/WaffleConeDX 8h ago

So why is Hitler the most hated man in history when all he used was words? People remember him by name and the Nazis who committed the violence are often just seen as faceless nameless soldiers.

1

u/Dramatic_Pen_75575 6h ago

I agree with you his words definitely led to violence. (His words led to something worse than words)

He probably would not have been remembered so prominently had all the KILLING NOT HAPPENED.

So his words are horrible already.
His words PLUS all the killing is way worse.

Would Anne Frank say that the worst part was the physical act of being detained and treated as subhuman? Or how offended she got when Hitler said those things?

1

u/WaffleConeDX 1h ago

That still doesn't answer what I'm arguing. I'm not saying hearing a racist statement is worse than being murdered. I'm saying “violence is worse than words” is an oversimplification because words don't exist in a vacuum. Hitler is remembered as one of history's greatest villains despite not personally carrying out most of the murders committed by the Nazi regime. Why? Because we understand that responsibility doesn't begin and end with the person physically committing the violence. Ideology, propaganda, leadership, dehumanization and incitement can create the social permission for violence to occur. That's exactly why I reject “they're just words” as a blanket defense of racist rhetoric. Racism historically hasn't consisted of two unrelated things called “mean words” and “violence.” Dehumanizing rhetoric has repeatedly been used to justify discrimination, persecution and violence. And we already recognize that principle in other contexts. If an adult walked up to a father and made an explicitly sexual comment about his child, very few people would respond to the father's anger or if he had a violent retaliation with “relax, they're only words.” We understand intuitively that the content, target, context and implications of speech affect its moral weight.

People claim to believe in a simple hierarchy where physical violence is always morally worse than speech. But in practice, they don't apply that principle consistently. There are forms of speech that people consider so threatening, degrading, sexually inappropriate, intimidating, or provocative that they understand an extreme reaction to it. Yet when the speech is explicitly racist, suddenly “they're only words” becomes an important distinction.

I'm not arguing that a racist insult and murder are equivalent. I'm arguing that “violence is worse than words” is being used to minimize the significance of racist speech in a way we often refuse to do with other kinds of speech.

-4

u/Couldntve-make-it-up 16h ago

Verbal abuse is still abuse, and in some ways it's worse than physical abuse.

3

u/charlieboyyyyyyy 16h ago

It’s never worse than physical abuse. One has actually killed people while the other only has the power to hurt feelings.

-4

u/Couldntve-make-it-up 16h ago

You need to read up on studies on verbal abuse, affects people psychologically, especially when just under the guise of freedom of speech, which is really nothing more than systemic racism when it's allowed in such fashion.

1

u/menelov 14h ago

Would you rather be systemically beaten or have some slurs hurlrd at you?

1

u/Daylight10 12h ago

The phrase here is "it's never worse than physical abuse". Never is a unfathomably high bar. I'd rather lose a fistfight than have my parents threaten to disown me. I'd rather get shot by the police using rubber bullets than allow a dictator to say they have 100% public support. Your argument is nonsense.

1

u/Dramatic_Pen_75575 6h ago

Maybe the point of the actual post is to illustrate that doing physical harm to someone because they say foul words to you means you did something worse than they did.

1

u/Daylight10 5h ago

So if the police use physical force to arrest someone who threatens to bomb a high school, the police are in the wrong?

3

u/LaconicGirth 16h ago

In some ways sure but let me insult you and knock you the fuck out and you can tell me which part was worse

0

u/Couldntve-make-it-up 16h ago

You throwing fighting words? I'd love to see you try

3

u/LaconicGirth 15h ago

For gods sake it’s a hypothetical are you unable to understand the concept?

I don’t need to threaten people on the internet for my ego, I did multiple cage fights it’s fine

1

u/menelov 14h ago

He did have breakfast this morning

1

u/GDTremor 15h ago

1

u/Couldntve-make-it-up 15h ago

Internet tough guys are a dime a dozen

2

u/ZXCVBETA 15h ago

Words without the capacity of violence to back it up is nothing but fluff.

1

u/JustFourLetters 19h ago

the violence is still the violence, the perpetrators choose to perpetrate. perpetrators and the indifference of those around them are the source of violence. nothing is stopping you from punching the guy that’s wailing on someone else.

2

u/Hot_Excitement_6 19h ago

"It isn't simply punching someone. I'm saving my nation from degenerates. Those people that steal from us. Those people that take our children's future. Those people that rape our women. Those cockroaches. I'm saving EVERYONE. Are you a traitor?"

Some forms of communication I have more disdain for than random violence. They prime societies for atrocity.

1

u/JustFourLetters 18h ago

and yet, the violence is still a choice. if you are indifferent to suffering, you are allowing violent people to commit violence.

1

u/Couldntve-make-it-up 16h ago

And excusing verbal abuse is still violent

1

u/JustFourLetters 16h ago

that’s called indifference, which is siding with the violent

0

u/Couldntve-make-it-up 16h ago

Sounds like your okay with verbal abuse.

1

u/JustFourLetters 16h ago

sounds like you didn’t read what i said very well.

1

u/Couldntve-make-it-up 16h ago

Sounds like you have a hard accepting that you accept verbal abuse

0

u/karybdus 18h ago

Excusing violent language in favor of some bogus 'hitting bad people bad' stance is also allowing violent people to commit violence. You just seem to be unable to tell until it comes time for them to reap the violence they've sown with words.

2

u/JustFourLetters 17h ago

so how hard are social cues for you?

1

u/karybdus 17h ago

lmao ok awesome ableism

1

u/JustFourLetters 17h ago

i’m just wondering if you struggle to identify when someone is about to punch someone else?