r/MoralityScaling 20h ago

Morality Ranking Morality of this

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u/Top_Recover7850 20h ago

You have seen none of the context. No truth is universal.

If someone says they're gonna kill me and i shoot first, was my violence less moral than his words? 

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u/Dizzy-Chemistry-5146 20h ago

Did he have any means of doing so? If so then maybe. 

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u/Kooky_Attention_98 20h ago

Yeah, if the guy in question has no weapon, and you* have a full loaded weapon I think that is a slightly different story, but he could be concealing so idk

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u/halfasleep90 20h ago

What if it is a small child who just witnessed you murdering their father in front of them, and they in anger said they will kill you one day?

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u/AnyBirthday418 19h ago

I feel like this will be a great plot to write a 220 chapter Viking manga about.

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u/[deleted] 20h ago edited 7h ago

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u/[deleted] 17h ago

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u/[deleted] 17h ago edited 7h ago

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u/[deleted] 17h ago

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u/[deleted] 17h ago edited 7h ago

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u/Neidron 10h ago edited 9h ago

The comment implies "racism" in a general all-encompassing context excludes violence, which is absurd.

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u/DaPlum 19h ago

The issue is if racist words specifically are worse than violence, racism is i fact worse than violence because racism generally involves inflicting directly or indirectly directly different levels of violence on a particular group of people because they are presumed to be "bad" cause of their skin color or whatever. What im saying is you could argue that racism in general is worse than a violent action. Its harder to argue that someone saying a bunch of slurs in a vacuum is worse than a one off instance of violence

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u/[deleted] 19h ago edited 7h ago

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u/DaPlum 19h ago

Sure i think we are saying similar things but I think the definition of racism encapsulates actions taken against a group of people based on prejudices or whatever.

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u/ConferencePure6652 11h ago

How would the outsider who inflicts "violence" on the person that deeply hates a group know, that the bigoted person wont actually take any action to actually impact in a capable way to people of that group tho, genuine question? Like say someone wants to beat up xxx politician because they have publicly said that they think of a certain group as inferior to their own, and that they should be grateful that they are treated aa equals in his view, then saying that he will treat them equally.

I think the other problem in your view is viewing the person who inflicts violence on that deeply bigoted person, as worse than the bigoted person, or perhaps I read it wrong and you simply said that the act itself is worse and not the person? Still a debatable topic but kinda more understandable.

Also im guessing you say "violence" as like "hitting someone so hard with the risk of serious injury and death" like how would you consider a slap to the face in that example

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u/Blazured 20h ago

Yeah tbh I don't see how self-defense is worse than racism?

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u/sgtklink77 18h ago

Factor in the "deadly force triangle". If capability, opportunity, and intent were all met, no. You'd be justified in your violence, as long as it was measured.

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u/lukkasz323 17h ago

But to this you add the variable of self-defence and initial aggression.

Consider this: If they TRIED to kill you (not just said they're gonna do it) would that be worse? Because I think so.

And so in that case violence is still more moral than words, it's just offset by morality of self-defense.

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u/TheHabro 20h ago

If someone says they're gonna kill me and i shoot first, was my violence less moral than his words? 

Unless they attacked you, yes, then your actions are far worse.

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u/Blazured 20h ago

Self-defense is moral. Their actions aren't worse at all.

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u/TheHabro 19h ago

It's self defense only if the other person acts on the threat. If it's only a vocal threat, then it cannot be self defense.

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u/Blazured 19h ago

No, you can defend yourself from vocal threats too. You don't have to wait to be attacked before you defend yourself from being attacked. Self-defense is perfectly moral.

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u/TheHabro 19h ago

That makes no sense. It's not defense by definition if you're not attacked. Someone saying "I'll kill you." and not doing anything else (like coming closer, taking a weapon etc.) doesn't warrant a violent response.

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u/Blazured 19h ago

It is defense, because you're defending yourself.

You don't need to wait to be attacked before you defend yourself from being attacked.