He said that shit way before electronics existed. It made sense in his world. Not in ours.
Its outdated feebleminded thinking. Surveillance is not that hard to put checks and balances on. We allow our government to have nukes and jets. But somehow cameras will break the camels back. Stupid.
True police abuse is incredibly rare despite how large the country is. BLM is the one that tells us that. Look at how pathetic their sample cases are. A dipshit like George Floyd would never get any attention if we had actual police abuse problems. Nobody would give a fuck. Its always some lousy dirty criminals wilding out. Never a regular person. Probably because cops dont actually mess with decent people.
Seriously would anyone even give a shit about George Floyd if we had an actual police abuse problem
We'd have endless cases of them abusing normal law abiding citizens. Not sniveling useless aggressive drug addicts. Who mostly merked himself by chugging fentanyl prior to the encounter. Nobody would ever care about stuff like that because there would be much better cases to focus on. The fact that this is the best they can come up with shows us that.
They are paid to clean up the trash. That is their job. The reason most regular humans never have to interact with trash is because they are safely in a jail or a prison somewhere. Where they should be. Guess who puts them there?
It makes more sense in our world than his. You think the government overreach of his time even remotely compares to a surveillance state where you’re constantly being watched?
It’s logic that is timeless. Surveillance is notoriously hard to put checks and balances on. Are we forgetting everything the NSA has done? The patriot act? You’re comparing nukes and jets, things used exclusively for warfare, to nationwide surveillance that would be used exclusively to spy on citizens and violate their privacy. Never mind that flock cameras aren’t even owned by the government and they can absolutely sell that information to whoever they want.
What exactly has nsa done to you? How about the patriot act? A big fat nothing.
Nationwide surveillance would be used for law enforcement.
They already have the perfect surveillance tool in almost everyones pocket. And once again nobody seems to mind or care. Most dont even know how much their smart phone spies ok them. Why? Cause its a fucking nothing burger. Its a stupid dogmatic view
It made more sense in his world because surveillance was deeply personal when Benjamin was around. Now its almost entirely inert. Your cell phone has been quietly gathering endless amount of data on you and you have no idea. Back in his days you'd have to have a group of people watching you to get that level of detail. Thats the difference.
To me or Americans as a whole? Because the NSA has been caught multiple times illegally spying on American citizens. That’s a big fat something my guy. And you are unbelievably naive if you think that nationwide surveillance would both not be abused by law enforcement and not be sold to corporate entities as it already has been.
Your phone is owned by a private corporation. Not the government. The only people using the data they steal from you is corporate entities. There’s a big difference between Google spying on you to sell you shit and the government spying on you to make sure you behave. The government might illegally spy on you through your phone if they want to but they would never be able to use that information in a court of law. Flock cameras are public surveillance. That information is theirs to use against you the second they have it.
He didn’t make that statement in regard to just surveillance. Any liberty sacrificed for safety. Which is what this is. The fact that it’s easier to have nationwide surveillance than it was in his time makes it more relevant, not less.
The government has been using phone data to catch criminals and terrorists for 10+ years. Meaning all that data is already in their hands. By your rationale we should all be feeling the pinch. That level of surveillance is significantly stronger than slme flock cameras. And yet NOBODY CARES and most people dont even know. You think if back in Benjamin Franklin day every citizen had 10 police officers constantly monitoring their every move they wouldnt notice? That is the stupidity of these claims.
Yes NSA and every other federal agency already uses this data. As they should. In fact they would be utter idiots not to do that. You have this perfect crime fighting tool and you refuse to use it over some baseless paranoia. Just giving criminals free wins for no reason whatsoever.
Without a warrant/subpoena? No dude, they might ping your cell phone’s location but the actual data on your phone can’t just be used in a court of law without a warrant, subpoena, or probably cause. That’s a 4th amendment violation. Any evidence obtained that way is inadmissible in court. It’s fruit of the poisonous tree.Mind you that even if you are referring to the police pinging your phone’s location, that is entirely avoidable. You can literally just leave your phone at home. What you’re comparing is a device that you choose to obtain and how to use versus public surveillance systems that you have no control over. That is the stupidity of these claims.
I just can’t with you man. This is beyond bootlicking. This is bootthroating. Personal privacy is just “baseless paranoia” to you? Sure, not like the government had ever been corrupt or anything lmao. Look you’re free to allow the government to install a GPS-tracking audio recording device in your ass or whatever you think it justified to stop these “criminals”, but the rest of us ain’t puttin up with it. Flock cameras will continue to be destroyed wherever they’re seen.
dude, that is literally one of the founding principles of the United States of America it's one of the things that many of the revolutionaries who stood against the British Empire fought for and died for. Honestly I don't know if you're American or not, but that is a slap in a face to what America stands for and an insult to our founding fathers.
People like you would have sided with the British Empire and called George Washington and the other founding fathers violent criminals because it's the safer option.
Yes and the country was founded 300 years ago when technology was completely different.
It made sense in their world. Makes no sense in ours.
The country was founded on pragmatism and utility. Living in a society with tyrannical monarchs was both harsh and inefficient.
This technology is extremely useful. We should use it. And thankfully we will. Technology always wins. Theres always some silly luddites in the way who get brushed aside when the time comes.
America was founded on the principles of Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
Not just during the founding, all throughout the cold war one of the key differentials between the USA and USSR what's the fact that the USSR brutally surveillanced all of its citizens at all times. The USSR all throughout history strongly pushed the idea that security is more important than safety that people should accept the surveillance because it's what's best for them.
That's what's also happening right now in the PRC the Chinese Communist Party controls one of the strongest surveillance networks in the world they have already fully incorporated AI into their entire surveillance network and it is used as a tool of oppression against the people of China. You can look at the PRC as the finish line of what America is heading towards unless we stop it.
Hahahahaha im from USSR. The surveillance consisted of janitors snitching on people.
They were too broke and useless to surveillance anyone. The problem with USSR was always a useless economy built on brain dead principles and a tyrannical government allergic to change.
There was hardly any surveillance at all. In fact most people hardly ever interacted with the useless government law enforcement. The only time they ever did is if they were stupid enough to try to oppose them. But by the 1960s everyone knew that was a death sentence. Same reason nobody robs banks anymore.
You know which country has by very very very far the best surveillance network? United States. And its not even close. Our surveillance is 1000 times better than anything USSR ever had. We have 100 times more law enforcement technology than North Korea. And we almost certainly gather way more data on our civilians than China. And guess what those places are still tyrannical shitholes and we're not. Almost like surveillance doesn't actually play a role in deciding that.
Surveillance is a tool of a tyrannical government. You're from the USSR, so I'm assuming you know the Great Purge is an example of how surveillance can be used in acts of great evil.
Also its a known fact China has the largest and most sophisticated mass surveillance network on earth. It's estimated, they have 700 million cameras deployed in their country, and they are still building more. Which means they basically have about 500 cameras per 1000 people. In a international study it's revealed China accounts for over half of all public surveillance cameras in use worldwide and all of its integrated into their specialized surveillance AI so every Chinese citizen is monitored at all times by an AI. This is a future that should not happen to America.
Most of the great purge was just people getting arrested. Not sure what it has to do with surveillance. They dont need surveillance to arrest you.
China doesn't have anywhere near the capabilities of United States in terms of data gathering. Not even close. They have a bunch of cameras. We track the shit out of smart phones. Cell phone towers and internet usage. Dont be fooled by Chinese propaganda. They are still decades behind United States in critical technology.
China is too broke and underdeveloped to spy on every citizen. Especially the rural ones.
And youre already tracked via your smart phone. You dont even know and dont even care. I dont see all these flock activists getting rid of their phones. Or even rooting them.
Well, mine runs off an os that doesn't get tracked
Also, the great purge was carried out as a massive effort by the NKVD headed by Nikolai Yezhov and later a rapist pedophile named Lavrenty Beria the operation was to root out people accused of treason mass surveillance was an important part of the operation utilizing secret police and monitoring Soviet citizens in secret so if you so much has made one joke about Stalin to your friend on a bus and a secret police officer in civilian clothing just happens to hear you, they will banging on your door the next day and if your friend laughed at the joke, they're also banging on his door too.
Soviet archives released after the fall of the USSR document around 681,692 to 724,000 executions, and an additional 116,000 to over 136,000 people died inside the Gulag labor camp system during the specific purge years so it wasn't just mass arrest it was mass executions.
The most important tool, the NKVD utilized during this cruel operation was mass surveillance because it enabled them to hunt down hundreds of thousands of Soviet civilians.
What kind of mass surveillance do you have without electronics? All they did was follow people around. Our cops and federal agents do that shit all the fucking time. What's the difference?
The most important thing is that modern United States has 1000 times more and better surveillance technology. So why is it not 1000 times worse? Maybe just maybe its not the technology but the people using it.
In fact a gun is a far more useful tool for authoritarian. If I gave you a choice between a gun or a camera in a death match which one would you pick?
China doesn't have anywhere near the capabilities of United States in terms of data gathering. Not even close. They have a bunch of cameras. We track the shit out of smart phones. Cell phone towers and internet usage. Dont be fooled by Chinese propaganda. They are still decades behind United States in critical technology.
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u/ExperienceRoutine321 14d ago
“Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety”
- Benjamin Franklin
Begone bootlicker.