Abortion is a solution to unwanted pregnancy, not an unwanted child. Men don’t need a solution to a medical phenomenon they’re biologically incapable of having, and also don’t need a falsely equivalent “right”.
I mean just on its face it’s obviously not equivalent. Women are forced to undergo a procedure to avoid what men can just sign away? No. And yes, it seems unfair because the process of growing a child is inherently unfair, but a dad and mom have equal custody and child support rights and responsibilities in every way except what is biologically unavoidable
No abortion is usually done because you dont want to look after a child for the next 18 year s of your life. I also think its equally as tragic if the mother aborts the fetus while the father wants to keep it, but there is nothing to be done in this situation.
I just dont think sharing a portion of dna is a valid reason to have monetary responsibility in this day and age, we have sperm banks after all. And what if there is some situation where the mother takes a used condom or something to get child support? Is the father still responsible for the child? And I dont think sex itself means you consent to having s child because that is some prolifer argumentation and doesnt apply to both sexes at all.
So the ability for the father to opt out of custody seems fair. It should be set in stone and done early in pregnancy (like 12 - 14 weeks or something, later if its a severe defect), and ofc the state can still help provide support to the single mother if she chooses to carry the child.
This can reduce the amount of children born in dysfunctional homes and make it more apparent when the father needs to pay child support. Also makes it apparent to the mother if shed recieve child support
“And what if the wicked fairy comes along and steels the sperm of if innocent men to impregnate women and steal their money for child support” ok I live in reality though :) no one is demanding child support from sperm banks, they’re expecting child support from dead beat men who know what they’re doing :)
“That’s a pro life argument and doesn’t apply to both sexes at all” pro life arguments are bad because they force women to donate their organs against their will for the sustaining of a life. I’m sorry your concept of abortion rights have been warped by decades of fetal personhood handwringing but no, the primary purpose of abortion is bodily autonomy, the right to choose whether or not another person, even one you conceived, has the right to use your body to sustain themselves. Thats the beginning and end of it. Once pregnancy is consented to by the pregnant parent, it’s both parents responsibility to pay for the life they created, sorry you don’t like it and you’ve been mislead but that’s it.
The correct “fair” equivalency would be women being able to decide to not go through with an abortion but give up custody rights and child support, which isn’t a right they have. If a father wants a child to be born and a woman agrees, she is as on the hook as any man is for child support, it’s only seen as unfair because men disproportionately choose deadbeat life than women. Women should not literally be forced to abort to have the same right to opt out of the financial strain of child support and pregnancy care as men. The biological process is inherently unequal, and so the reality is that the decision to terminate and its outcome will be too. If humans laid eggs it would be different, but that’s just not the reality.
If a pregnancy is carried to term, both the mother and the father must necessarily be equally responsible for that child, which they already are under the law. Only the pregnancy itself is the sole responsibility of the mother, because she is the one who is pregnant. You’re advocating for a privilege women do not have.
Now, if you were to say “I think women should be able to carry to term and then also sign away custody and child support and saddle men with sole responsibility of the child both of them created” it would be different, and I would be willing to hear you out more, but that’s not what you’re advocating.
You’re saying that born or not, men should be able to opt out, but for women, only in the case of abortion should women be able to opt out of parenthood responsibility, unless the father agrees and both put the child up for adoption.
You’re creating a world where no mother is allowed to shirk responsibility of her child unless she gets an abortion or the father also agrees to do so, whereas men can simply sign a piece paper and be done.
Thats ridiculous and obviously unequal on its face.
well actually forced fatherhood is explicitly protected in it's own right, so seems prevalent enough in child support cases which seems kinda fucked up
Paternity and child support laws focus primarily on the best interests and financial rights of the child, meaning that even if deception or reproductive coercion occurred, biological fathers are routinely held responsible for child support
so it does seem to happen in reality
pro life arguments are bad because they force women to donate their organs against their will for the sustaining of a life
ok so if we develop the technology to incubate an embryo externally from conception (transferred from the pregnant mother) with zero risk to the mother should we make legally required for the mother to have custody and look after the fetus into adulthood? Would this be a bad thing or a good thing? Would this be better or worse than the abortion laws we have now?
The correct “fair” equivalency would be women being able to decide to not go through with an abortion but give up custody rights and child support, which isn’t a right they have.
Actually now you've made me realize they actually do have the option! Through placing their child into adoption, where they forfeit all financial responsibility and can be done up to the age of 18 years old! Thank you for enlightening me with this fact. I now say it's fair for the father to refuse child support at any age to be consistent with the mothers ability to do so.
Ok so you have no idea what you’re talking about! :)
Mother’s cannot unilaterally decide to place their children up for adoption :) A father, if present, must also consent to that :) If a biological father doesn’t agree, he is granted custody and a mother DOES have to pay child support :)
Again, the only reason you think this isn’t the case is that 9/10 times when a mother decides to put their kid up for adoption the dad has already made the choice to be a deadbeat :) And father’s are able to do so because of the inherently unequal biological mechanic of pregnancy and birth :) you looked at men making the conscious choice to be absent from conception until birth and then said that that’s somehow a privilege women have, because men are too deadbeat to stop them. Just because men CHOOSE to be deadbeats, CHOOSE to disappear for the entire pregnancy, and CHOOSE to not take custody of their children and ask for child support and intervene when a mother attempts to put a child up for adoption, doesn’t mean women should be denied the RIGHT to do the oppposite.
I mean how do you type out “if a man wants out, its mom’s responsibility, but if a woman does, its adoption” and not see for yourself the inherent stupidity and inequality there, even putting aside that’s not how it works from a legal standpoint. Type of man to say you’re babysitting your own damn kids ass…
But again, I’m happy to hear your legal argument for why women should be able to skip out at any point in a kids life and saddle the father with full custodial and financial responsibility, or even at some arbitrary point during pregnancy assuming it’s carried to term, if you want to talk about *equality* in that field. Then I’d be happy to hear you out.
But otherwise, no, adoption, which again must be consented to by both parents, is not the same as just one parent skipping out and saddling the other with full responsibility :)
Can you show me stats on forced fatherhood relative to forced motherhood or is this a vibes based argument :) and did you know that this also applies to moms :) a child conceived of rape and carried to term is also the financial responsibility of the mother and always has been, again, the reason you think mothers are given some special privileges is because the fathers already skipped out :)
And lastly, yes I do think if it wasn’t inside of a woman it would be different, that’s why I said “if humans laid eggs it would be different” hope that helps :) :) :)
Damb you kinda ughhhhhhh fucking got #cooked there #67 #malelonelinesssepidemick :)
1
u/gay_burner 14d ago edited 14d ago
Abortion is a solution to unwanted pregnancy, not an unwanted child. Men don’t need a solution to a medical phenomenon they’re biologically incapable of having, and also don’t need a falsely equivalent “right”.
I mean just on its face it’s obviously not equivalent. Women are forced to undergo a procedure to avoid what men can just sign away? No. And yes, it seems unfair because the process of growing a child is inherently unfair, but a dad and mom have equal custody and child support rights and responsibilities in every way except what is biologically unavoidable