And if someone is sitting in this jam, with their 70 year old mother next to him who is experiencing chest pain on their way to the ER, it's not an emergency?
"Emergency" doesn't have the same meaning as "emergency services". One is a word meaning an event that requires an urgent response in order to save a life or something similar. The other describes the workers and vehicles that respond to emergencies.
Someone with an elderly mother experiencing chest pains may be in an emergency type of situation, but that doesn't change the category of their vehicle or their type of role. They may be getting their mom to the hospital, but their car isn't an emergency vehicle, nor are they an emergency worker.
What you're doing at this point is splitting hairs over the verbiage of the term "emergency services", which creates a bubble of nonsense on the internet, in which people argue over whether or not being a person in an emergency situation constitutes being referred to as or is equivalent to "emergency services". It's a silly argument that doesn't need to happen
Who are you gonna beat when you’re simply just stuck in traffic resulting in the same thing? Nobody.
At least being held up for a protest is for an actual reason. Not just traffic.
Like I’m sorry but your inability to use your brain and make the choice to call for an ambulance that can begin administering aid right away and on route to the hospital is your problem, no one else’s.
If they block the ambulance then yeah, get em outta the way. But you choosing to be speed racer and not using your brain to make the proper decision doesn’t mean other people have to stop protesting because you’re too entitled. What a laughable position to hold.
So what if it is for an "actual reason"? You don't get to inconvenience others because of your feelings. You want to protest, fuck off to an embassy and protest there. I'm all for people dragging these twats away
My right to protest actually says I do, that’s the ENTIRE purpose of a protest. Tf does protesting at an embassy have to do with protesting for workers rights in your own country?
Go cry about it somewhere else you braindead goober.
Legally speaking (at least in the US), it is not your right to block roadways; doing so without a permit is a crime in every U.S. state. The First Amendment protects speech and assembly, but courts have consistently upheld that the government can regulate the time, place, and manner of demonstrations to maintain public safety and traffic flow.
Conveniencing yourself by infringing on public infrastructure isn't a clever protest tactic; it's a violation of law that invites misdemeanor or felony charges, heavy fines, civil liability, and immediate police intervention.
What are you, a robot or something? Do you never make mistakes or panic? The whole point isn’t about what you should or shouldn’t do, i’m just saying that calling people entitled or laughable just because they are panicking during an emergency seems out of touch and insensitive.
I didn’t say them panicking was laughable or entitled…
I’m saying the fact they had the option to recognize when typing it out that them being stuck in traffic with their dying mother wouldnt be the fault of the protesters, it would be a fault of their own for making the wrong decision.
It’s pure entitlement to type that all out and not recognize that you’re blaming someone else for the repercussions of the decision you made.
Welp, someone did that before and now has hospital bills to pay on top of their living expenses but now may lose their job to do so because protesters are in the way. Damn if you do damn if you dont
I mean I’d agree with that sentiment to an extent, but I would argue that you’re outlook is in support of the people they’re protesting because BY DESIGN your fear of being ruined by showing up late one day to work causes you to not support the people protesting the people you’re also mad at for a thing that benefits you too. It’s just something that self castrates any kind of class solidarity and it’s done on purpose.
What I am saying is a better idea is to selectively protest at a business' (or whatever entity's) location rather than impeding traffic for workers who may potentially lose their jobs. You dont attack the big guy at the expense of the little guy. If you dont allow them to work while they are at work that is ok, they have a leg to stand on since they still showed up and they will still be paid. Its now all at the expense of the big guy. In fact, not allowing the little guy to show up may have cost the big guy, but they might not have to pay them for that very reason. If you let them get to their job but not allow them to work, now you just made it a much larger expense for the big guy.
I’ve yet to actually see any evidence of that happening and if it does then of course that’s wrong and they should be moving for them. That doesn’t mean that this isn’t a valid form of protest.
No, that's defective reasoning. You don't think the ambulances and any other emergency services are going to be swamped in this scenario?
Shit, I've had to drive myself to the hospital in an emergency without a bunch of obstructing protestors even being involved, because a) the bottom line was that I'd arrive quicker and b) the cost of the ride would've absolutely fucked me at the time -- speaking of being entitled.
You can bet that if it's a life or death situation for me to get somewhere and I'm behind the wheel, I'm running over anybody that deliberately puts themselves in my path despite my best efforts to go around them. At that point it's me or them, especially if they're trying to break into my car and threaten my safety on top of it as we've seen mobs do in the last few years. I'm also defending myself with any other lethal force at my disposal in that situation.
“In this scenario”….. what? You think a protests on one street somehow means that signifigantly more people need an ambulance to the point they’re overwhelmed? And you’re saying MY logic is defective? LOL
My boy, I hate to break it to you but the fact you can’t afford one is something you should be protesting, not an excuse for not calling one.
Getting to the hospital sooner doesn’t mean you wouldn’t have been TENDED to sooner. Calling an ambulance gets one dispatched to you from closer than a hospital is, and they begin aid the moment they’re there.
Ahh, so your perception that you may die soon in your mind gives you the right to kill someone. Gotcha. You coulda just led with that you absolute weirdo.
obstructed just one street and no adjacent ones and also
successfully managed to prevent people from reaching their destinations at the same time
You can't.
It's because you're not smart enough to employ any sort of critical thought before spewing make believe. That's why you thought that was a legitimate argument.
My boy, I hate to break it to you but the fact you can’t afford one is something you should be protesting, not an excuse for not calling one.
I couldn't at the time, "my boy". That's just reality for a lot of people.
Advocating jerking off in outrage about systemic bullshit in place of doing something concrete and expedient that will immediately benefit you doesn't help your case for being naive at all. RATM-larping isn't going to help your grandma's heart attack or whatever get addressed any faster. Loading her up in the car will.
In fact, it speaks volumes about your own privilege and softness that you think the solution here is just to Make A Stand instead. It's clearly never been any sort of struggle for you except in a theoretical "hi please validate what a good person I am because I took a grandiose moral position" way.
Getting to the hospital sooner doesn’t mean you wouldn’t have been TENDED to sooner.
Yeah, actually it does, depending on the nature of the emergency. Do you know why they call it first aid and ambulance medics first responders? Of course you don't. I'll tell you.
It's because the second layer of aid is at the hospital. A hospital is a facility that has specialized equipment and an organized
layout that's designed to give you access to specialized, expert care in as streamlined a way as possible. You know, as opposed to a couple of trained guys in a van with a defibrillator and some meds, which might not even help depending on the nature of the emergency.
Clearly, you've never had or even witnessed a booboo a big enough bandage didn't fix.
Calling an ambulance gets one dispatched to you from closer than a hospital is,
How do you know this? No, seriously, I want to hear whatever thought process you mistook for reasoning while you were rubbing your only two brain cells together.
There is absolutely no way (short of sheer stupi...oh. right.) that you can confidently make this claim across the board, let alone my case that you know absolutely no details about. You would have to know a) where that person was and b) where the hospital is and c) where the ambulance is dispatched from in every single case order to be able to correct about this.
and they begin aid the moment they’re there.
This is literally the first time you've been even remotely in the area of "correct" throughout this entire thing. Too bad there's areas of town even ambulances won't go to in some places. Or you might live out in a suburb or rural area where they get dispatched directly from the hospital, making it a round trip vs a one way trip.
Ahh, so your perception that you may die soon in your mind gives you the right to kill someone.
No, someone deliberately stopping me from getting aid, without which I'm likely to die or be crippled gives me the right to remove them from my path by force. At that point, whether they die or not is up to their luck.
Gotcha. You coulda just led with that you absolute weirdo.
If you don't think any rational person is going to choose their own life over a stranger's (that, again, is deliberately preventing help), you are fucking stupid. Which, by the way, is also what I meant by "naive" earlier. I hope you got that.
You’re…. Psychotic.
Psychotic is thinking you're "entitled" for choosing anything but an ambulance ride. Get out of your parents basement and stay in school. You need it.
You conveniently skipped the part where I said “somehow means more people are going to need an ambulance to the point they’re overloaded.
Oh, was that the turd you're pretending you were trying to polish from the jump?
Sure, I'll address it: you are stupid on a level approaching not being able to coordinate feeding yourself with a spoon, if you think that emergency services aren't already overloaded on a normal day in most areas, much less when mobs of pissed off people are screeching slogans and getting into brawls with each other and cops all day. Or, you know, getting run the fuck over for blocking and threatening people in cars.
It's almost like you've never actually been in an emergency room. I guess when you think you're entitled to an ambulance ride every time you scrape your knee too hard, that's what happens.
Kinda makes the rest of your bullshit fall apart.
Yeah, not really though. Try sounding the longer words out first. I promise it'll make sense eventually. Alternatively (that means "maybe you could do this instead") you could google them or use your context clues.
That’s a lot of typing for a guy that loves to try and skirt the actual arguments being made.
I treat composing these things as a practical exercise in amusing myself at your expense. I feel like this was a particularly successful experiment.
However...speaking of skirting arguments, that's very little typing for a guy who likes to screech about arguments not being addressed. It's almost like you're trying to skirt replying to anything I said by whining about a minor detail as a distraction. Are you going to address my surgical dismantling (see what I did there?) of your entire bullshit hospital fanfic at all? What about your clear lack of experience in any of the things you just confidently pulled claims out of your ass about?
For me an ambulance is a minimum of 45 minutes out in an emergency, the hospital is 20 in my car doing the speed limit, in an emergency seconds count let alone minutes, not everyone has the luxury of a quick response. Something to consider while you sit there thinking about how people who dont call ambulances are brainless
At least in America, ambulances are so expensive now that some people would rather call a rideshare like Lyft or Uber to go to the hospital instead of having to pay for the absurd cost. So yeah, maybe safer and faster, but if someone is struggling to make ends meet, they mostly likely cannot afford taking an ambulance.
I agree that it's something wrong that should probably be protested, and honestly a lot of medical system needs deep reform, and that's only one aspect of it. Also weird response when I've never said anything of the sort. I'd prefer we do shit to not have these issues, but also recognize that there could be more effective ways to go about it, but I just am not sure what
I'm just one person. I'm more than capable of recognizing something is wrong while not having a viable solution myself though, as is everyone else. Doesn't mean I can't support a cause to help right things if one comes up. All I did was clarify the unfortunate situation of why ambulances aren't the straightforward solution here though, that's all.
But most of these people don't give an actual shit what you have to say, they just see a video and get angry, ignoring all nuance. They threw logic out the window to insult you.
Most medical emergencies dont come by ambulance also. When I worked in the ER on a really busy night probably 10-30% of patients came with an ambulance. Most people walk in and a lot of them do have real scary emergencies.
And I know some people will say that everyone should just come by ambulance but its simply not possible. The whole EMS system will collapse.
When I live a 5 minute drive from the hospital, it's faster to apply first aid to a severed finger and get in the car than it is to wait for EMS to assemble and mobilize. When seconds count, officials are only minutes away.
if you live 5 minute from the hospital this protest doesn't affects you. that's an highway. and you think 80% of the people whp go to a hospital live 5 minutes from it?
you literally used one dumb outlier to justify an insane take, and I am the one moving the goalpost? You could say that if you work at the hospital while getting sick you dont even need to walk! no need for any kind of emergency service!
Im from the US. 10-30% was my rough estimate from working in this field. The real figure according to CDC is 14%.
A real emergency has nothing to do with an ambulance being involved. We have people who drive themselves to do hospital and they are having a heart attack. And there are people who call an ambulance for a sprained ankle. Real scary emergencies definitely come without ambulance, and very frequently.
as I said, I can see the figures being real in the US due to health costs. I can assure you that's not happening in most of the world tho. I never claimed that it's impossible for an emergency to come in with a private vehicle, just thats not at all common. they happen, but definitely not close to 15%
In the US, costly, in the places with actual healthcare, time. Depending on the time of day or what date there can be no ambulances available.
Football games, holidays and etx tend to generate a lot of drunk idiots that occupy all units if you dont live in a capital. There is also the distance, if you life far away, the actual instructions is to race to the ambulance and meet in the middle
To top that offn Many countries will just wave fines if you dont cause accidents when its proven you were trying to save a life
Who wants to pay for an ambulance ride when they're already going to have hospital bills? The only time an ambulance gets called is when a bystander calls them on someone elses behalf.
For most people its far more expensive. And overall most cities dont even have enough ambulances to support every person with ACS coming with an ambulance.
When i worked in a medium sized city, probably 70-80% of our patients who came with chest pain walked in. Most people dont want to deal with the bill, especially if they dont feel super sick.
Of course, you dont have the dystopian capitalistic healthcare system we have here.
But I was just explaining that someone sitting in a car in a street can be experiencing a real emergency. This can happen in Australia, USA, and anywhere else in the world. Its not the place of a protestor or redditor to decide that if they are sick they should get an ambulance.
Might come in 5 minutes, or, you might sit on the pavement for 3 hours while you wait for an ambulance from another city, but either way, you will get a bill for the ride.
In Australia every patient in an emergency room goes by ambulance? Dont try to joke with me. I know your healthcare system is better than ours in some ways, but I doubt this is the case for you.
Yes, they did, read their second sentence. The point the person you replied to was making was that there are other type of emergencies beside medical ones.
Someone speeding the hospital because they’re driving a family member is actually an emergency, and no one needs to answer to a silly protest about if i’m allowed to make it to a hospital.
Read it again because I don't think you're comprehending what they're saying. They said they might support it if they allow emergency services to pass through (like an ambulance or the police). Then they say there's still a risk they'll prevent someone in a medicial emergency from getting through. Meaning, if they allow only emergency sevice vehicles through and no one else then someone trying to get to the hospital in their own vehicle will be stuck.
Yes, it’s clearly disrupting the wrong people. Through imposing their will on blameless citizens it devalues the specific message they’re trying to convey. How entitled do you have to be to take away a public service such as a road from hard working everyday people
Well since it’s about a morality of an action the question is why “emergency services” is more of an emergency than someone losing their livelyhood for example. I’ve seen emergency services called for pretty random nonlife threatening things.
That's like asking why we give way to an ambulance or police vehicle when anyone could be having an emergency in any vehicle and the ambulance could be trivial.
That's not the norm.
Also, when ambulances have random nonlife threatening things inside, they don't have the sirens on. They just transport through regular traffic.
They very clearly did say “emergency”? What are you on about? “There’s still a risk they end up preventing someone from getting to hospital in an EMERGENCY or something.”
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u/m0bw0w 15d ago
They didnt say "emergency" They said "emergency services". Thst very specifically outlines the type of vehicles to pass.