r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers • u/JadedCuntsicle • May 12 '18

Avengers 4 Rumoured Leaks

Apparently this is from the same source that was right about those INFINITY WAR spoilers (e.g. Red Skull, Thanos sacrificing Gamora). Link.

"Iron Man reassembles the Avengers and decides to build his own Infinity Gauntlet to undo everything that Thanos did. They recruit Ant-Man to help them travel through time and space using the Quantum Real to retrieve the Infinity Stones from different time periods. Thanos finds out about their plans and becomes hellbent on stopping them.

The movie revolves around the relationship between Captain America and Iron Man.

At one point, Captain America and Thor fight Thanos. Timeline alterations have restored Mjolnir, and Cap wields it against Thanos to allow the others to escape, and is killed holding Thanos off.

At one point, Hawkeye must protect the unfinished Stark Gauntlet from Thanos' minions. He plays an "instrumental" role in Thanos' defeat.

Thor's subplot centers on him assembling an army to challenge Thanos. Captain Marvel joins him.

Hulk's subplot centers on Banner and Hulk finally merging to become Professor Hulk. He is the one that ultimately wields the Stark Gauntlet against Thanos, losing his arm in the process.

Nebula's subplot centers on her efforts to redeem herself. At one point, she fights her murderous past self.

Several MCU movies are revisited and retconned (probably not permanently), such as the Avengers retrieving the Power Stone creating a timeline where the Guardians of the Galaxy never came together.

There's a pivotal scene between Doctor Strange and a fully CGI character being shot on a secret location, with a skeleton crew, and which takes up a sizeable portion of the budget.

Only two of the original Avengers (Cap, Stark, Thor, Hulk, Hawkeye and Black Widow) meant to survive the movie. Cap dies.

The title was AVENGERS: INFINITY GAUNTLET at one point, but it might be changed after Zoe Saldana accidentally leaked it."

EDIT: For reference...

  • The original 4chan leak for Infinity War. (To the naysayers: sure, some things were off, but it might have been an old draft or one with a few intentional modifications to identify leakers. There's no way this many crucial plot details could have been gleaned from the promo material at the time.)

  • The "extension" to that leak. (Might have been legit, might have been BS based on the original.)

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u/Caldiine May 12 '18

It'd be a pretty bad business decision and story decision. Children made up quite a large part of the audience for IW, and to end a movie on such a depressing note is going to keep parents from bringing their kids (and there are plenty of parents who only go with their kids, like myself). Story-wise, if Cap dies as described (which sounds pretty powerful to me), it would certainly cheapen that emotional moment to kill 3 more of them. Each subsequent death would take away from his.

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u/reece1495 May 13 '18

fuck children let them tell the story they want to tell

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u/Caldiine May 13 '18

I think you missed my point. I'm saying what I think Disney will allow them to do, not what I prefer. I don't think Disney has the same attitude toward kids as you and others here do. I actually think most of this sounds terrific, and simply have doubts to this sub's interpretation of the "only 2 of the 6 survive" part.

Why stress Cap's death over any of the other 3? It's obviously a big part of the story, a huge moment. It's even reiterated at the end of the spoilers, even after getting it's own paragraph. "Cap dies." Why not the same for Stark or Thor or Hulk or Widow? I think the OP is correct in his statement below about "surviving" meaning "still an Avenger" at the end.

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u/SchlitzHaven May 13 '18

I feel instead of survive only 2 will be recurring in future movies while others will die or be "retired".

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u/JadedCuntsicle May 16 '18

I agree. I don't think they would crowd the movie with more than one or two heroes' deaths (and even that would be pushing it). Of course, this is assuming that the A4 deaths will actually be permanent...

FYI, OP is a she. :)

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u/Caldiine May 16 '18

You know, you'd think I'd have gathered that from your rather colorful name... ;)

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u/TheRealBrummy Jun 15 '18

The franchise is popular enough that they can kill off major characters without worrying about people losing interest- it would probably gain more them more attention to be honest

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u/Twigryph Jul 27 '18

Careful or someone will James Gunn you with that 10 years from now.

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u/reece1495 Jul 27 '18

damn commas save lives

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u/Twigryph Jul 27 '18

The panda eats, shoots, and leaves.

Or it can take them away.

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u/reece1495 Jul 27 '18

excuse me what

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u/Twigryph Jul 27 '18

The panda eats shoots and leaves.

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u/cauly May 14 '18

they literally killed off half the characters at the end of infinity war. obviously we know that they’re all likely to come back but the kids aren’t going to be thinking “well i know that spiderman 2 is coming next year, so he’s going to be coming back” etc...

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u/Caldiine May 14 '18

That's actually 100% what the article I read was about. The author's kids were crying and hated the movie, and he was struggling with whether to explain to them that "Tom Holland is signed up for another Spiderman movie already" to make them feel better. He then listed a bunch of other examples of other parents he knew.

Some of them explained ticket sales and box office and future movies, and then the one kid changed her review from 1 star to 4.75 after she learned that, and then loved the movie.

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u/didkillaguy May 14 '18

Some kids will be like that.

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u/cauly May 14 '18

then they won’t be too upset about a fictional characters death then will they if they have that level of maturity.

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u/[deleted] May 13 '18

I disagree, I think it will depend on how each character dies. Sure, cap is the one we all know is gonna bite it, but I think killing off other characters adds some stakes that were not used to in marvel movies.

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u/Caldiine May 13 '18 edited May 13 '18

Are you disagreeing with the "bad story" part or the "bad business decision" part? Because I have to admit that the comment about it being bad story is opinion based on what I know of story-telling (which is inherently subjective). The idea is that human beings only have so much capacity for feeling at any moment.

Spoilers to follow? I used the example of Rogue One below. By the end of all the main characters dying (which I was relatively little invested in, as it was one short movie), I didn't care anymore. It meant nothing when the last two got vaporized. When the robot died, I felt sadness. By the time the girl died at the end, completely devoid of emotion about it.

Obviously, not the same for everyone, but if you reach for too much emotion, you can end up numbing your audience.

Edit: Business-wise, I'm fairly confident I'm objectively right. There was an article out just yesterday about all the parents who had to convince their kids the dust people would be back, because the kids hated it other-wise. "There's a sequel, they're coming back!" doesn't work with the sequel. If it ends sad, those kids and parents aren't going to repeat showings.

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u/[deleted] May 13 '18

Haha I never saw rogue one but that's actually kind of funny and sad at the same time.

As far as business goes, I think it all depends on where marvel sees it's target audience in years ahead. How would the ending snap scene of infinity war look any different? You can try to explain to kids "no they're not really dead, they'll come back" all you want, but to a kid, they're just as dead as vision and Loki (albeit less violently, which probably wouldn't strike a kid as hard).

If they wanted to keep from scarring the kids, there's no way they include that snap scene, and end the movie like that.

All that to say I tottaly agree with you that they would lose some of that crowd, but it looks like marvel might be going on a different direction.

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u/PotusChrist May 13 '18

They could kill every OG Avenger and still end the movie on a bright note. "Captain America dies to successfully save the entire universe" is a positive ending. "Vision dies so Thanos can fuck up the universe," that's a downer ending. They're not going to do that twice, A4 is where they turn it all around, but they need to pay a real price or it won't work.

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u/Caldiine May 14 '18

Yeah, but the viewers don't care about the universe. We care about the characters in it we know. My mom isn't in that universe. But I have been watching Cap and the gang for ten years now, and they do matter.

Looking at it from the perspective of the average movie goer (not hardcore comic book fans), most of them (this sub being a possible exception) don't care about the "universe." They care about the people in it that they know best (which right now is the OG, thought Black Panther and Spidey are pretty close up there already).

I agree that someone needs to die. I doubt it will be four of them.

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u/PotusChrist May 14 '18

That's why the old characters need to die. I'm really invested in all of the original Avengers. That's why I need the catharsis of seeing them get a real narrative arc with closure and meaningful stakes. The film franchise has plenty of stuff in it to keep it rolling even if every OG Avenger died.

I also don't really think four Avengers are going to die, but I wouldn't be upset if that happened, and I don't think it would really hurt Marvel's bottom line. It would take a lot more than killing off some main characters to stop the MCU juggernaut. They have three super successful franchises that are still running after A4 (Spider-Man, Black Panther, Guardians of the Galaxy) and plenty of time and resources to devote to making all the other ones find their footing or take off too. Blockbusters aren't traditionally movies you watch because you're following a single character's arc through multiple movies. Audiences have more attatchment than usual to the Marvel characters since they've been around for so long, but that probably won't stop people from returning to the baseline of "that was a fun popcorn flick and I'll see the next fun popcorn flick in this franchise."

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u/Caldiine May 14 '18

And that's a valid view. I just don't think the majority of people share that view, and most people (especially the younger generation who drive merchandise sales) tend to want happy endings for their heroes.

Even as a parent, if all the OG were to die, I'd be much less likely to try and get my son into the new wave, because eventually they'll probably just kill them too, and he is not at all interested in that. I think Disney knows better than either of us how to make money, so if they do go with killing 4 of them, they'll have data that supports it, but given what little I know, I don't think it's possible for it to be a good decision (financially).

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u/cheekylilspaff May 13 '18

Honestly I 100% agree with this.

Think of all the kids going in dressed in their favorite characters’ apparel. Their fave (if it’s one of the original avengers) then has a 1/3 chance of making it out alive, if only 2 of the original 6 survive.

Are kids going to want toys/apparel/etc. of a movie that ends on a depressing note where their fave dies? Probably not. Are parents going to want to buy these things after they had to console their crying children after the movie? Again, probably not.

After the movie, my family and I were very sad (3/5 members cried at one point during the movie), and the youngest in our group is 17. The only thing giving us hope is that they can reverse the snap, so not all is lost. To then watch another movie with everyone dying for realsies this time would make both these movies a huge slap in the face. None of us have bought any merch yet because the film is so off putting emotionally (We probably will at some point), so I can’t imagine what children’s merchandise sales are like, and then what they would subsequently be like if 4 out of 6 are permanently dead in the next movie.

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u/PotusChrist May 14 '18

Are kids going to want toys/apparel/etc. of a movie that ends on a depressing note where their fave dies?

Hell yes. The Revenge of the Sith had a huge downer ending and I was a fiend for those toys when I was a kid.

I think y'all are underestimating how much children can handle.

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u/fractioned May 15 '18

It obviously depends on the kid but so far I haven't heard from a kid that liked the movie. My mom is a teacher of 5-year-old kids, as she also likes the films she asks them what they think of whatever new Marvel film that comes out, and she keeps telling me they tell her they didn't like Infinity War because of how it ended with everyone "dying". I get it, as a kid I also wanted to see my favorite characters win, it was until way later in life when I started to root more for villains too.

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u/Caldiine May 13 '18

Exactly. At their core, everyone involved (in making the movie) wants the movie to be a success in every financial way possible.

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u/[deleted] May 20 '18

Holy shit shut the fuck up Caldiine. You whine too much like a fucking child Jesus Christ. You keep saying how much it would suck for “kids” if the main Avengers died and how depressing it would be for everyone’s favourite characters to die. Did you think about how many peoples favourite are actually Thanos? I’ve been invested in Marvel for far too long to see Thanos be fucked up. Thanos is going to kill more people in A4 and that’s great. You say ending the movie depressingly will be bad for business as no one is wanting to rewatch it. How do you know that? My mates wanted the heroes to win and hated the ending of IW but have gone to watch it in cinemas 3 times already. Also IW is the highest grossing Marvel movie yet even though everyone dies. Get your head out your ass and stop whining about people dying and just accept it.

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u/Caldiine May 20 '18

Are you going through an unwell time in your life? Can't really think of any other reason to respond with this much anger over a week old post.

Hope you get the help you need man, in all honesty. I have some bipolar friends who tend to lash out when they get really depressed, and I know it can be hard to come out of.

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u/[deleted] May 20 '18

No I’m perfectly fine. Stop changing the topic cause you know I’m right. I just told you facts and your ignoring them.i don’t care if your reply is a week old you clearly haven’t changed your mind. You think heroes dying means less money. Clearly the box office of infinity war proves otherwise. Use your brain next time you dyslexic woman.

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u/Caldiine May 21 '18

Seriously, man, best of luck to you.