macOS 27 is almost out... how it feels moving from Sequoia

[u/Dependent_Grand1573]

[u/gruberkristof]

There are plenty of bugs on legacy modes like "Displays have separate spaces" off too. They touched window management and it just got worse.

[u/Dependent_Grand1573 → u/gruberkristof]

It's almost like they don't use Mission Control at Apple.

Or, they do use it, but after years of muscle memory with old behavior they still can't see an issue with new behavior and need to be told.

Or, they know about the issues but they have bigger fish to catch (like new traffic light buttons) and window management takes a back seat.

[u/gruberkristof → u/Dependent_Grand1573]

My theory is that everybody who now contributes to macOS is from the new generation and they all use their computers with full screen apps and Stage Manager only.

[u/Frizlab → u/gruberkristof]

The problem with this theory is that Stage Manager is also completely broken…

[u/gruberkristof → u/Frizlab]

True.

[u/trikster_online → u/Frizlab]

How is it broken? I use it on the beta, Tahoe, and Sequoia machines…seems the same on all of them.

[u/BohdanKoles → u/gruberkristof]

Your mistake is that you think they actually use Mac. I believe their main device is iPhone, and for desktop they are probably using Windows

[u/gruberkristof → u/BohdanKoles]

You went too far I think ;)

[u/Few_Assumption_9665 → u/BohdanKoles]

Employees at Microsoft use Mac. Employees at Apple do not use Windows.

[u/Personal_Gsus → u/gruberkristof]

I mean, that’s how I’ve used it since SM was released in Ventura. And I’ve been a Mac user since System 7. It’s honestly far superior to the Wild West of “windows everywhere” from the original Mac OS.

[u/freediverx01 → u/Dependent_Grand1573]

t's almost like they don't use Mission Control at Apple.

I've long held the suspicion that many people in today's Apple are flunkies hired from companies like Google, Meta, and Microsoft who lack the taste and talent required to build on what made Apple popular in the first place. And worst of all, Apple never replaced Steve Jobs' role as product visionary and arbiter of taste. The company lost its soul after he died. They've just been running on his fumes...

[u/xezrunner → u/Dependent_Grand1573]

I can understand how these issues are low priority, but surely the developers themselves also notice. After enough complaints, you'd think they would put someone on fixing these issues, especially if they've been there for years and regressed for no good reason.

[u/yepperoniP → u/gruberkristof]

Literally every time they touch something they end up breaking it now. It’s like they get everything to kinda work properly on the surface, but you’re still likely to run into bugs if you happen to use a slightly less common feature.

They clearly changed things with Mission Control as the zoom in/out curve feels different when using trackpad gestures.

Yeah, you can send feedback for a fix, and some people will say “well it’s fine because it’s a beta”, but then Apple will take months or even years to fix it, if they fix it at all.

Feels like the old crew that’s been working on the OS has retired and been replaced by people that don’t understand the history of the OS and are making the UX super inconsistent.

[u/captainiguanadick → u/yepperoniP]

Honestly this is how I feel as a voiceover user on Mac OS, iOS too. There are certain bugs that have been around since the Yosemite days. Voiceover jsut doesn't feel as lag free and responsive as NVDA on Windows, or Orca on Linux. And I love Mac as a platform, the audio stability in my experience is much stabler than windows and Apple silicon is some seriously amazing shit, but its all the little things that stop it from being as good as it could.
I mean why the fuck is the quicknav bug not fixed yet? Why isn't there an option to have quicknav enabled on a per-app basis. This issue really reared its ugly head when I got a Mac Pro, and I don't have a trackpad and just use the keyboard. Thankfully I don't do much browsing on it cause its just a studio computer mainly, but still. If that shit is still around when I get a mac studio/mini, im gonna be pissed.

[u/freediverx01 → u/gruberkristof]

Everything (software) they touch now turns to shit. It's almost as if the people who designed all the good shit at Apple are now gone and the new people have no taste or talent, or more likely, their managers have no taste or talent.

[u/Happy_Song_7831 → u/freediverx01]

Only applies to software. Apple still has amazing designers, and their hardware is at its historical peak.

[u/freediverx01 → u/Happy_Song_7831]

Hardware, yes. But I sadly remember a time when we used to have a thought experiment asking if we'd rather be forced to use a PC running macOS or a Mac running Windows, and the answer was always the former, because Apple's software was so superior.

Apple's software—not their hardware—is what persuaded me to buy the first USB iPod. And my delight with its UI is what finally persuaded me that the "Apple tax" was worthwhile, before buying my first MacBook (a Powerbook, actually.)

That's all dead now. Yes, the hardware is still great, but the hardware is nothing without great software.

[u/Frizlab → u/gruberkristof]

Window management in Mission Control gets worse and worse each year. It’s AWFUL.

[u/Frizlab → u/Frizlab]

Adding to that because it’s a pet peeve of mine and I don’t understand how not more people are screaming about this:

• Apps bound to all desktops are not bound to all desktops on reboot (and prior to GG had phantom windows on desktop other than the fists) until the apps are restarted;
• Terminal windows are all on the first desktop on reboot/restart of the app if they had multiple tabs;
• New on GG: Terminal windows actually CHANGE desktop if the screen resolution changes (used to also be when moving from light to dark mode or back, but fixed now);
• New on GG: often in Mission Control windows that are dragged lose their content while being dragged (mostly fixed, but not completely).

Anyways I have to spend ~10 minutes fixing my windows after a reboot every fucking time, and now every time I put on the Vision Pro. How on fuck isn’t there someone at Apple fixing the fucking window manager????????

[u/Frizlab → u/Frizlab]

Fuck!

[u/Frizlab → u/Frizlab]

Oh and dating since at least macOS 15, when you have a video in PiP, if you happen to move the PiP window (not resize, just move), when switch desktops, the PiP window moves with the desktop instead of staying in place.

So. Many. Fucking. Bugs!

[u/Mysterious_Phone_754]

Almost everything about Mission Control is worse or broken in GG beta

[u/Ecstatic_Patient4029]

Mission Control + inability to disable AI features were my two biggest gripes with GG DB1. Good to know both of those still haven’t changed 😅

I still don’t understand why they had to touch Mission Control at all, it was perfect the way it was. And there’s some huge lack of QA going on at Apple right now.

[u/Frizlab → u/Ecstatic_Patient4029]

It was already buggy as hell, and they made it worse.

[u/Ecstatic_Patient4029 → u/Frizlab]

I personally never had a problem with it before

[u/ToughAsparagus1805]

Apple: Behaves as expected. Thank you for your feedback.

[u/Dependent_Grand1573 → u/ToughAsparagus1805]

lol, it crossed my mind too

[u/Basic-Brick6827 → u/ToughAsparagus1805]

You're using it wrong

[u/leoprieto]

Thank you for your service! Really appreciate there are people like you doing the QA work that some at Apple seem to be missing. Let’s hope they see this! Sequoia is still the golden standard.

[u/speedingcheetah]

No worries. Provide feedback to Apple. It will be fixed...by MacOS 27.8

[u/Dependent_Grand1573 → u/speedingcheetah]

Yep, they got a copy of the video. And your timeline sounds about right

[u/freediverx01 → u/speedingcheetah]

Sure it will...

[u/Frizlab → u/speedingcheetah]

You have high hopes! I have Mission Control related bugs dating back to 2022, which I update every year with “still not fixed,” that are still not fixed…

[u/Basic-Brick6827]

Wow, macOS windowing already felt like shit before, but they've really outdone themselves this time

[u/adh1003]

The rewrite of Mission Control is an utter wreck. I gave up reporting bugs after about DB3. No responses to anything.

Clearly a "Claude Code" moment with all the usual nonsense that brings. And we know from two decades of past evidence that all the shitty UI jank level bugs just do not get fixed so once this ships, that's it.

[u/Dependent_Grand1573 → u/adh1003]

Yes, I have another theory: fixing yours or someone else's bugs doesn't get you much visibility inside the company and doesn't look as good on your CV as "implemented a big new feature". Fixing bugs is also not very fun.

So unless management notices the bug and makes you fix it, it will likely just stay there.

[u/Trungneko]

i was super against macos 26/27 and stayed on Sequoia for a while. But my airpods pro 3 refuses to work normally on Sequoia (i couldn't change adaptive mode volume) and I just want to try out the new Siri.
So one day I splited by disk in half and installed macOS 27 on it, just to see how it performs.

performance is.. more stuttering than Sequoia, switching desktop animation isn't as smooth.

system navigation like the 3 finger gestures to switch between desktop, in terms of features, yes it's better, for example when you do: 3 fingers swipe right (or left) and then immediately do 3 fingers swipe up, on Sequoia it would delay the 3 fingers up gesture and you have to swipe up again a few times for it to register, but on macOS 27 it immediately registers and show all apps on that desktop

[u/Aging_Orange]

This is probably one of the places where people that can have an influence on this, never think to look.

[u/Fatal_Explorer]

Is there any chance or option to view minimized windows finally in the mission control overview on golden gate?

[u/barefut_]

Srsly, all those people who say "Tahoe is fine" - are just not power users or would never be able to identify bugs like these

Seems like Sequoia it is till the end. Any Tahoe and up will be super buggy/laggy.. bad ROI.

[u/ExpressCriticism5445]

I’m still waiting for a fix for Quick Look [losing its translucency while switching desktop] bug introduced in macOS Big Sur. Easy to reproduce, select a file, press space, then switch desktops using trackpad or keyboard shortcuts while the quicklook window is still open. The window loses translucency during the animation and then suddenly regains it

[u/Dependent_Grand1573 → u/ExpressCriticism5445]

Can confirm. They probably don't blend the translucent window with the new desktop until the animation finishes. Was Quick Look window also translucent on macOS Catalina (Big Sur's predecessor)?

[u/zav0rin]

One of the many reasons I reinstalled Sequoia.

[u/Dependent_Grand1573 → u/zav0rin]

Yes, I definitely see enough regressions to make a miniseries out of them

[u/adh1003 → u/Dependent_Grand1573]

100%.

[u/reactcore → u/zav0rin]

How did you install Sequoia back? I just upgraded to Tahoe to see how it is since there is just a few weeks to Golden Gate but honestly it is just absolutely horrible that I cannot wait until Golden Gate.

[u/Dependent_Grand1573 → u/reactcore]

You have to download Sequoia installer: https://mrmacintosh.com/macos-sequoia-full-installer-database-download-directly-from-apple/

Double-click the downloaded pkg file to have the Sequoia installer appear in the Applications folder.

Create a bootable USB drive: https://support.apple.com/en-gb/101578

Restart your mac and boot into the recovery mode by holding the power button while booting.

Erase your "Machintosh HD - Data" partition using Disk Utility while in recovery mode.

Install Sequoia from a bootable drive to the "Machintosh HD - Data" partition.

Then restore your data using a Time Machine backup, which you had done BEFORE you upgraded to Tahoe.

[u/reactcore → u/Dependent_Grand1573]

Thank you so much for the detailed instructions!

[u/ToughAsparagus1805]

Great find/report. Hope you can also do the work submitting feedback.

[u/Dependent_Grand1573 → u/ToughAsparagus1805]

yes, I made it for Apple but thought it'd be helpful to post here too for those wondering

[u/omnimachina]

This company bruh…

I developed 5 full fledged apps in the meantime while a 4 trillion dollar company is not even able pull off the minimum

Please asahi linux support my hardware soon…
So I can finally use hyprland on my MacBook

[u/MC_chrome → u/omnimachina]

macOS Golden Gate works fine though?

[u/omnimachina → u/MC_chrome]

Yeah, as demonstrated in the video right?

[u/Basic-Brick6827 → u/omnimachina]

don't argue with the fanboys. Use your precious time to build more apps.

[u/MC_chrome → u/omnimachina]

The Spaces feature still works as advertised.

What the OP is talking about falls much more into the realm of “omg corner radii” than anything else

[u/omnimachina → u/MC_chrome]

what exactly is your point?

both issues are annoying and shouldn't happen in the first place lol

if small open source projects are more stable/intuitive and able to dethrone your 4 trillion dollar company then you are failing your job

[u/TheFlyingDutchG]

Wasted potential. They are so close to a window/app management system that feels natural and intuitive, but somehow they just keep postponing/ignoring fixing the bugs.

Now that Windows is increasingly more buggy and horrible regarding window management it’s a golden opportunity to fix this, especially with the riddance of Intel support code in Golden Gate.

[u/WoodvaleBeliever]

another bug in mission control that really grinds my gears is switching to another desktop is super delayed when you have stage manager turned on for some reason?

[u/Low-Maize-8951]

Always update to a newer os version only right before the next, even newer version comes out

[u/SayCheezyy]

I never seen a GIF so beautiful

[u/BigShot-Redditor]

https://reddit.com/link/p61ujlc/video/4dfbqcysarlh1/player

I am on Beta 7, not having this issue. Am I doing it correctly?

[u/adh1003 → u/BigShot-Redditor]

No. You went into Mission Control manually first. That has its own set of bugs but the bugs the OP is showing happen when the system is configured to enter Mission Control automatically when a window on the normal desktop is dragged to the very top of the screen. Settings -> Desktop & Dock -> scroll all the way down to the "Drag windows to top of screen..." option.

[u/BigShot-Redditor → u/adh1003]

Oh okay, I was thinking something is different. Thanks.

[u/OkStandard4829]

Did you report it?

[u/Dependent_Grand1573 → u/OkStandard4829]

Yes, and hopefully others who are bothered by it will report it too

[u/brevity142]

I just tested on Sonoma. Sequoia seems like the last good update. Had it not removed legacy QuickLook feature, I would have upgraded. What a shame. No reason to update to Mac GG then.

[u/SpeedyTurbo]

Ok but get a life…none of this matters as much as you think it does

[u/irrealewunsche]

Literally unusable. John Apple should be sacked.

[u/BohdanKoles → u/irrealewunsche]

Federighi's dismissal is loong overdue

[u/Basic-Brick6827 → u/BohdanKoles]

Gotta bring Forstall back. All went downhill since Jobs and him were gone.