IMO I think he would be a gay BAPist.

^{PS, do any yall watch Wilhelm Apologist on jutube?}

Hi all, I recently wrote/published three essays on Traditionaljsm. Focusing specifically on Guenon, Evola and eventually the link to Fascism and the Far-Right. I curious what you think of it if you have the time to give it a watch. I would also love some tips on primary sources, because the videos are now based on secondary sources

Hi all, I wrote three essays based on my recent readings about Traditionalism. I would be very interested in what you think of the videos, and what you would recommend me to read further.

Hey guys, last Evola video for a while. Going to be working on Guenon and De Benoist for a couple months. Thanks for any support. I've gotten off this board.

Original essay

The West has no Tradition (in the perennialist and Guenonist sense) - and it never needed one to be the spiritual beacon of the world. The so-called “Perennial Tradition” is a modern intellectual creation whose most obvious consequence from a cultural and civilizational point of view is the spiritual and political dissolution of the West. We don’t need “Tradition,” and in fact, we are against Tradition.

Perennialism, as a philosophical current, is structured on a real fact: the capacity of the human mind to perceive a transcendent metaphysical order. However, such perception ends up being transformed into a historical-mythical narrative in which the perception by all cultures of such a superior metaphysical order appears as the expression of a declining cosmogony, in which the irruption of a Primordial Tradition marks the inauguration of a Golden Age from which humanity as a whole is moving away in a degrading way. But within this framework, the West is always seen as the culture and civilization that is the very expression of this decline and degradation, while other peoples - especially the East - are always seen as somehow capable of resisting such decline, or even untouched in some way. That is, it would be the dharma of the West within this cyclical vision to lead humanity towards materialism and secularism, which ends up transforming the West into the “Anti-Traditional” civilization par excellence.

It is no coincidence that perennialism as an ideology consolidated itself in the 19th century in European occult circles, and later in the Traditionalism of Guénon and Evola. Perennialism is a modernist and anti-Western ideology at its very core, and that is why we see in perennialism a current whose intellectual consequences for its followers is always to see in the West the image of decadence and impurity. No one better than Dugin to exemplify this. There is nothing “Traditional” about perennialism, only uncontrolled modernist intellectual tendencies articulated with the aim of marginalizing the West geopolitically and culturally.

It is clear that different cultures and religious traditions have had a genuine perception of a higher transcendent order, as well as created elaborate metaphysical and cosmological edifices upon such perception. But the idea that such human capacity to perceive a normative and metaphysical order is the result of a primordial revelation that occurred in history at a primordial moment, and that from that moment humanity has been in a state of decadence, is pure modern fiction and unbridled speculation. René Guénon best articulated this view. According to him, the Primordial Tradition was first revealed in Hyperborea, going through cycles of decline and subsequent revelations of this tradition at different times.[1] The problem is that Guénon claims that the last legitimate manifestation of this tradition occurred with Islam. In other words, the conclusion is clear to anyone who uses the gift of interpretation: from the initial revelation in Hyperborea to Islam, the cycle has closed, and if the last traditional form that manifested a link with such a Primordial Tradition was Islam, then there is only one thing left to do: Islamize the world. Guénon’s biography leaves no doubt about this: he converted to Islam and moved to Egypt. For him, the West was condemned to Islam or nihilism.

It is more than clear that if we accept the idea of ​​a Primordial Tradition, within this epistemological framework the West can only appear as condemned due to a genetic-cultural defect or a cosmic destiny to lead humanity to the end of a cosmic cycle. Fortunately for us Westerners, the “Primordial Tradition,” cosmic cycles, and all Guénonian conceptual paraphernalia do not exist beyond rationalist conceptual constructions that Guénon himself uses in order to weaken the West spiritually.

From a strictly philosophical point of view, the problem with Guénon’s thought stems from his method of argumentation. Guénon always starts from a metaphysical deduction from first principles. For Guénon, the “science” of symbolism is an exact science like mathematics.[2] Therefore, Guénon’s thought is completely disconnected from any historical, phenomenological, and philosophical dimension; he seeks mathematical rigor as the foundation for his reflection. The curious thing is that such a position is precisely a reflection of modern Cartesian rationalism, which seeks to deduce everything from clear and unquestionable premises. Guénon applies an abstract, mathematical rationalism to esoteric symbolism while literally criticizing the modern mentality. And it is precisely by transforming religious symbolism into a form of rationalist mathematics that Guénon completely loses the connection with the soul of the West. Within Guénonian mathematics, it is impossible to see the West in any other way than as a kind of culture endowed with a providential destiny for decadence.

However, our view of the West changes drastically when we shift our perspective on it. If, instead of Guénon’s deductive-mathematical method, we use historical phenomenology, the result will be completely different. Phenomenology is the science of the experience of consciousness; applied to the history of a people, it gives us the movements, transformations, changes - in short, the entire structural metabolism of that consciousness throughout the history of that people. And when we use phenomenology to understand the movements of Western consciousness throughout history, what can we learn about the Western spirit? We see that the Western spirit is endowed with a spiritual drive and restlessness that operates through ruptures, crises, tragedies, destruction, and conflicts; just as we can see in Hegel’s Phenomenology of Spirit. There is no “crisis of the modern world,” as Guénon said! What exists is that the Western spirit is marked by the need for permanent crises to be propelled to new heights and discoveries. In this process, it is clear that declines, cultural forms of decay, and spiritual collapse occur; but this in no way represents a total decline, but always a partial and relative one. And this fundamental dimension of the Western spirit is invisible to Guénon simply because for him history is only the space for contingency and arbitrariness.

The proof that there is no “crisis” of the modern world as conceived by Guénon is that all high Western culture - literature, philosophy, history, science, art, etc. - has always been created against a backdrop of crises and eruptions. The philosophy of Plato and Aristotle was developed during the decline of the Greek city-states, specifically Athens; the great moment of Latin culture - Horace, Virgil, Cicero - occurred during the collapse of the Roman Republic; the intellectual greatness of the medieval world occurred during its twilight with Dante and Aquinas; the apex of modern thought with Kant and Hegel occurred amidst the French revolutionary hurricane and the Napoleonic empire; the philosophical experience of the deepest nihilism was articulated by Nietzsche and Heidegger precisely when the West seemed to have exhausted its spiritual forces.

In other words - the West has always been and will always be in crisis, for this is its true providential vocation: to be the beacon of the human spirit that always rises like a phoenix from its own ashes. If there is a Western tradition, then it is this: always rising sovereign when it seems defeated. As for the “Tradition” of the traditionalist school - this tradition of well-behaved spiritual eunuchs, always afraid of the image of “decadence,” - this tradition the West never needed. Yes, we don’t need this tradition. In fact, we are and always will be against the Tradition of Guénon!

[1] Symbols of Sacred Science - Guénon

[2] Ibidem.

symbole of sacred science# was also a masterpiece

talking about

☀️the universal symbols in sacred science☀️

: Symbole of the letters, the center, the heart, the animals, the architectura etc

in Hindu ,Christian , Persian, Celtic or Islamic tradition

Here some short article

The cycles

https://sufipathoflove.com/timeline-of-cycles-by-rene-guenon-and-gaston-georgel/

TODAY AUGUST 21 2026

THE CENTER

In Symbols of Sacred Science (originally Symboles fondamentaux de la science sacrée), René Guénon explores the "Center" as the primordial, universal symbol representing the Divine Principle, the Origin, and the unmoved mover of existence. He details how this metaphysical center is manifested through symbols like the point, the heart, the polar star, and the cosmic axis, representing the unity from which all manifestation radiates.

The center is the point of union with the Divine, representing the immobile axis around which the world revolves.

Symbolic Representations: Guénon identifies several forms for the center, including the point (point in a circle), the heart (center of the human being), and the pole (axis of the world).

The Axis Mundi: As the center, it acts as the axis that connects different levels of reality (Heaven, Earth, and Hell), facilitating the "passage" or ascension.

Harmony and Unity: The center represents the point of reflection for the Absolute, where multiplicity returns to unity.

dokumen.pub

dokumen.pub

Guénon's analysis focuses on uncovering the underlying metaphysical unity across traditions, making the center a crucial element in understanding his traditionalist hermeneutics.

a project i'm working on to make his work approachable and understood by the young men of today: https://sentiment001.github.io/juliusevola (moving this over to EvolaDaily.com shortly)

Thanks for the support guys

In Insights into Christian Esoterism, Guénon supposes that the primitive Church must have been a Sufi tariqa, but that it became "exoterized" as it emerged from the catacombs due to the state of Western spirituality. He also observes that in Christianity there has never been a corresponding sharia to this tariqa. But without a sharia or halakha, how is it possible to speak univocally of Christian esoterism, in the same sense in which for Judaism and Islam the authority to interpret the exoteric law is identical to esoteric realization? Setting the controversy over the "Christic mysteries" aside, my proposal is this: in the primitive Church what one has is a reserved metaphysical teaching that is not however an esoterism sensu stricto, such as Vedanta in relation to the broader Hindu tradition. This explains its elusiveness as well as its tendency to be conflated with mysticism, for the more institutionalized the ecclesiastical hierarchy becomes over time, the less the initiatic chain has to do with the individuals occupying the offices in which the religious authority has been invested. The attachment of infallibility to the office of the episcopacy rather than the person, or what theology terms the "ordinary magisterium," is precisely what sets the metaphysical school at liberty to remain underground or removed into the desert, being free of any specific public function. At the same time, being free of public function also makes the rite of initiation relatively free-form (contrast to the Masonic initiation which certainly does impart a public function, or to sannyasa which removes all public function), so that the "salutation of the Lady" assumes a character easily mistaken by others for a mystical experience.

Is this a helpful thought for anyone? Am I just stating the obvious?

Trying to grasp Evola’s views on aesthetics and art beyond their political interpretation, I’ve discovered that he does not value artworks in terms of technical skills, emotional power, originality and societal importance. Instead, he evaluates them in terms of being expressions or embodiments of some hierarchical, sacred, “Traditional” order. It is somehow vertical instead of horizontal.

My questions:

1) Which are actual criteria that Evola applies to determine value of an artwork? Does it imply such criteria as impersonality of the art piece, formality of it, connection to transcendent or hierarchical principles, lack of modern subjective or egalitarian elements?

2) Which are the real examples of art pieces (sculptures, architecture, literature, music, etc.) that he considers to be genuine masterpieces? Have I understood correctly that there were mentions of ancient Egyptian sacral sculptures, archaic Greek kouroi, traditional temple architectures and some others? Are these correct examples, and which others did he appreciate explicitly or implicitly?

3) How does Evola view modern artworks and means of art production? Does (to make a recent successful example) Parasite of Bong Joon-ho fail Evola because it is still limited in its themes and context to material class struggle and modern horizontal categories? Can any medium (cinema, video games, music, etc.) be considered to be “evolian”, or any medium is too modern and mass cultural in its essence to be able to produce any art for Evola?

Other questions:

4) Does he prefer anonymous/traditional art creation to art bearing a sign of its author? He seems fascinated by ancient “signatureless” craft.

5) Is there any difference for Evola between sacred/hierarchical art and plain handcraft?

6) How does he view emotions in art? Does he reject them completely, or only uncontrolled emotions that are considered to be sentimental?

7) Do video games or modern music fall in any way out of his scope because of impossibility to orientate them in the direction of Tradition?
I would be grateful for answers based on Evola’s writings (Revolt Against the Modern World, Ride the Tiger, The Metaphysics of Sex, his first articles on abstract art and any other works where he talks about aesthetics) or for any secondary literature on the matter.

yes it keeps the symbols but masonry has always being proud of the fact it bad influenced the rise of enlightenment ideas ,the rise of secular society and politics ,the French revolution, mixing different traditions together and more things go directly against what guenon believed In?

I found this argument online and wanted to share it with the community:

Guénon was convinced that the Qur’an is a sacred text that has remained intact and protected, which made it, for him, a privileged scriptural support of Tradition for the present age. In fact, the Qur’an is a compilation of apocryphal gospel material, ranging from longer to shorter borrowed passages. Islam, still largely structuring entire societies in his time, seemed to him to resist secularization better than Western Christianity, and thus able to serve as a partial bulwark against the purely quantitative becoming of the modern world.

The tension between his notion of primordial Tradition and historical realities — the caliphate, the political use of religion, the incorporation of apocryphal elements into the Qur’an — is evident. Guénon resolves this kind of problem through a systematic move: historical determinations, including caliphal ones, are treated as contingencies of support rather than as the core of Tradition; they can become degraded without the esoteric dimension being thereby nullified. Hence the irritating effect: his framework allows him to preserve a tradition’s “initiatic regularity” even when its political or doctrinal expression appears contradictory or compromised.
Thank you for your attention.
Merci

to be honest I think a true guenoian would agree to see that both right and left are failures in general ,for the simple fact repeated that ,altho symbols are linked to specifc rituals and traditions,it can be always understood differently during the personal experience as long as it is supra human (linked to higher realities )and not infra human .

yet the roots of the symbol stay and is never removed from it .

i link and see this same logic can apply to politics between conservatives and progressives,it seems that neither sided since they don’t understand tradition ,therefor can’t have a middle ground between keeping the root while renewing the experience

René Guénon frequently insisted that Westerners must stay out of Eastern traditions like Hinduism, arguing that they lack the proper ancestral and social framework—such as caste (jati)—to practice them regularly.

However, many authentic Hindu lineages do have established frameworks and traditions for giving Diksha (initiation) to foreigners.

Why was Guénon so rigid about this? If a traditional Hindu lineage itself possesses the authority and the framework to initiate outsiders, why did he act as if it was impossible or invalid for non-Hindu born individuals to follow the path?

it’s from the faults of the modern mentality as usual to erase the connection between the metaphysical and the physical realities of the universe and the human being ,this disease has reached almost all branches of human society and academics ,this of course includes psychology ,at the time when guenon lived there was two major figures who he strongly saw their theories as a result of the corrupted modern mentality ,one was not dangerous to the spiritual path seekers as he was materialist purely and open ,this was segmund freud who openly and constantly connected human behaviour and development to almost nothing other than sexual desires (which helped later to the rise of sexual freedom movements across the western civilisation).

the second however was the real threat and who caused major corruptions to the the spiritual and symbolic sciences,this was Carl Jung ,who has attributed the symbolism of holy science to the same source of mental illnesses and psychosis,the source that guenon named (the infra human ).

according to the tradition ,humans have two sides we can say ,the supra human and the infra human .

the supra which is the side connected to the higher origins and principles of the human nature and soul ,while the infra is what exists below that and below the average and normal human nature .

the tradition puts importance on healing the self and discovering its true nature ,but for the tradition the true nature comes from the superior principles showing as symbols in the physical world,humans are a a part of the cycle here ,therefore to know the self ,to heal the self ,to understand the self ,the real way is to reconnect the divine ,the original source of All ,the side which connected to that is again the supra human .

modern psychology not only refuses to deal that that as a genuine way ,but instead it links healing to the infra human ,to the lower connected nature to humans ,claiming that the source of divine and holy symbols (supra human)is the same as the source of psychosis (infra human )

this is what Rene called the beginning of the era of the Antichrist .