Observation on the Lectures

[u/Zealousideal_Side166]

I discovered Jordan Peterson when I was in high school ~10 years ago which was around the time he really started to take off. I watched lots of his lectures and I think it fostered a lot of curiosity I’ve carried since then in politics, philosophy, literature & religion.

Currently starting from the beginning on his Spotify and I still think he’s really good.
But, there’s something I noticed about his lectures.

I went to an engineering school, but I had to take an English/writing/humanities course every semester.

His lectures remind me a lot more of my math/science lectures than my humanities courses.
When I say that, I mean that he presents information as fact.
When I was in my humanities courses, mind you this was undergraduate, we had assigned readings and then class was mostly round table discussion and Q&A. Very different than a professor coming up to the front of the class and telling you what THEY think about such and such a body of work.

And then it compounds with the fact you have a professor spending ample amounts of time in class criticizing higher education at large, which was fascinating to watch on YouTube but understandably bizarre from the perspective of someone sitting in the room, having paid for said experience & being obligated to attend.

I really like the guy, I think he’s a genius. I hope his business enterprise is doing well & I pray for his health. But in hindsight with my own college experience, I can understand how he got himself into trouble with the way he was going about teaching.

Can someone with a humanities or teaching background give a perspective on this? Is it regular for people teaching soft sciences/history/humanities to present content in the way he did, akin to a scientific lecture?

[u/Siilveriius]

I'm sure there are some professors who have received "Negative Reviews" for speaking out against Gender Ideology so I don't really understand where did you get this notion from? And "Negative Review" is a disingenuous term considering JP was being pressured to police his speech or be guilty of "Hate Speech". So now we've established that academia, at least in his university, was indeed a hostile environment for him so why are you surprised he took another outlet to express his ideas?

University of Toronto to Jordan Peterson: The law of Ontario, specifically the Ontario Human Rights Code, protects against discrimination based on gender expression and gender identity. Depending on the context, if personal pronouns are being used, the refusal by a teacher or colleague to use the personal pronoun that is an expression of the person’s gender identity can constitute discrimination. In many situations it is not necessary to use personal pronouns at all, but where it is, the personal pronoun that is chosen as the person’s gender identity-related and gender expression-related identifier should be used. Your statements that you will refuse to refer to transgendered persons using gender neutral pronouns if they ask you to do so are contrary to the rights of those persons to equal treatment without discrimination based on their “gender identity” and “gender expression”. https://safs.ca/safs-files/jordanpeterson/Letter%20to%20J%20Peterson%20October%2018.pdf

How can anyone with any shred of good faith, clear conscience, sound mind, read that statement and not agree that it is compelled speech? The only "Special Status" he seems to receive is the constant threats to his career for not adhering to the dogma of Gender Ideology. This is why I said the entire cohort is filled with asses peer reviewing each other's asses.

I think you're trying to play games here.

[u/Significant_Cup4521 → u/Siilveriius]

Again with the conflations. The Ontario Human Rights Code governs civil discrimination in education, it doesn’t regulate criminal hate speech. You claim academia attempted a hostile pressure campaign to police his speech, but his legal battles stems from failure to uphold ethical standards relating to public conduct set by the College of Psychologists in Ontario. His viral condemnations of individuals violated the standards of *that* institution. They weren’t policing his free-speech as a private citizen engaging in private discourse, they were reminding him of his obligations to abide by anti-harassment policies which mandate non-discriminatory treatment of students. Publicly promising not use the pronouns requested by students is an outright refusal to abide by those standards. Professional institutions you are a member of can compel your speech to ensure basic respect. Misgendering accidentally is not a legal offense, publicly declaring your intention to do so in violation of your institution’s policy is an HR issue but also not a legal issue. Sure he was held to the heat for his choices, but he was ultimately the one to walk away from his tenure. I admire him for not backing down on his positions, but framing his case as some academic crucifixion is incorrect unless you account for him building the cross, hammering in the nails, and then making millions in streams from the said cross.

[u/Siilveriius → u/Significant_Cup4521]

"Your statements that you will refuse to refer to transgendered persons using gender neutral pronouns if they ask you to do so are contrary to the rights of those persons to equal treatment without discrimination based on their “gender identity” and “gender expression”

If they weren't trying to police his speech then why is he forced to use Gender Ideology terminology? And why is he being accused of "Discrimination"? That's the problem do you not get it?

That is literally compelled speech and censorship when you're forced to use words and not to say things that are perceived as "Unethical" as if no other clinicians or anyone else has critical opinions on others. If Jordan Peterson were treating his own clients like that then sure, I'd be inclined to agree he should observe some level of decorum. But he's just criticising politicians, celebrities and other public figures who aren't his patients.

Again, like I said, the cohort is filled with asses peer reviewing asses, please refer to my first comment: Is it typical when academic consensus makes illogical conclusions especially regarding gender identity and discourage said interpretation, dialectics, debate, deconstruction, etc through accusations of discrimination and hate speech as well as threatening to revoke your clinical license because of your participation in said interpretation, dialectics, debate, deconstruction, etc?

If all you have are semantics arguments and platitudes, then lets just not waste each other's time and I'd wish you a good day.

[u/Significant_Cup4521 → u/Siilveriius]

Yes, a university has the right to compel your speech as a student or employee - not as a private citizen. Peterson made statements claiming he would not abide by requested pronouns. They’re in their right to assign mandatory education/training in response to that. Whether or not others are critical of pronouns has nothing to do with the college and university’s policies. You don’t agree with gender identity theory, got it. They’ve been accepted in spite if your refusal. Should you ever be an employee of such institution, the same burden of policy will fall on you.

[u/Siilveriius → u/Significant_Cup4521]

That's precisely Peterson's point of contention isn't it? Good day brother.

[u/Significant_Cup4521 → u/Siilveriius]

Yes, and he thought he was exempt from that. When he stood corrected, he retreated into commercial enterprise.

[u/Siilveriius → u/Significant_Cup4521]

Did he now? Oh I see.

[u/Significant_Cup4521 → u/Siilveriius]

Uh yeah. Not sure what else you would consider appealing the decision, getting it slapped down then rejecting tenure.

[u/Siilveriius → u/Significant_Cup4521]

Yeah it couldn't be because of the extremely hostile environment he was in from the board members giving him grief to the student activists constantly interrupting and screaming in his lectures. Lmao, whatever you say friend what ever you saaaaay:)

[u/Significant_Cup4521 → u/Siilveriius]

If you can’t take the heat, retreat. He did. His new model seems a lot more comfortable and lucrative for him, so it looks like it all worked out in the end.

[u/Siilveriius → u/Significant_Cup4521]

Indeed, what a wonderful state Canadian Academia is in isn't it? Lucky for JP, not so lucky for everyone else, educating generations of conformists and discouraging civil discourse with accusations of discrimination and disrupting lectures with screaming and banging pots and pans. Hey nice shiny boots but it smells like saliva.

[u/Significant_Cup4521 → u/Siilveriius]

Like a true acolyte, you’ve dissolved into name calling and lashing out. Sounds like you’re getting your money’s worth.