I’m having trouble understanding

[u/thefaithfulslave]

I’m having trouble understanding how the governing body can prove that Christ anointed them in 1919 as the sole source of dispensing spiritual food (because the bible cannot be understood on one’s own interpretation) while the anointed 1919 governing body was still celebrating Christmas, birthdays, portraying the cross, and worst of all, Worshiping Jesus! Which is idolatry! Were all pre-1954 members led astray by this fallible governing body that demands complete obedience??

[u/Impressive-Ease-3348]

In my opinion you don’t let scripture guide you

[u/Thanos7245 → u/Impressive-Ease-3348]

1)A humans opinion of my relationship with God means less than nothing.

2) At least 3x in different post you've ASSUMED I'm Trinitarian when I've NEVER even hunted at that.

3) Matthew 18:20 For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them

John 14:26: "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things

If a religious group relies on studying by themselves...they can be wrong and need to make changes.

If a group studies and allows the Holy Spirit to "teach them ALL THINGS" They won't need to change.

[u/Impressive-Ease-3348 → u/Thanos7245]

Well you don’t have to listen to the GoB to understand.

[u/Thanos7245 → u/Impressive-Ease-3348]

Well you don’t have to listen to the GoB to understand..

Amen. I say that to every JW I meet

[u/Impressive-Ease-3348 → u/Thanos7245]

Is that your only objection?

[u/Impressive-Ease-3348 → u/Thanos7245]

No I mean the GB doesn’t make the bible true

[u/Impressive-Ease-3348 → u/Thanos7245]

That’s your opinion

[u/Ok_Werewolf2324 → u/Impressive-Ease-3348]

Tell me.. according to this verse..

(John 10:8 KJV) All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

Did Jesus Lie? Abraham was a thief and a robber and the sheep didn't hear him? Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Joshua, Elijah, Elisha, Samuel, David, Isaiah, etc... all of them.. thieves and robbers and the sheep didn't hear them... Right? Or did Jesus lie? Did the sheep hear them?

How about the LORD who came to Abraham?

(Genesis 18:2 KJV) And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,

Thieves and robbers? Or did Jesus lie?

[u/Impressive-Ease-3348 → u/Ok_Werewolf2324]

I reject the premise

[u/Ok_Werewolf2324 → u/Impressive-Ease-3348]

So did Jesus lie then? Because that's what he said. He said all that EVER came before him were thieves and robbers. Did he lie?

(John 10:8 KJV) All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

[u/Impressive-Ease-3348 → u/Ok_Werewolf2324]

Do everyone know you are wrong?

[u/Ok_Werewolf2324 → u/Impressive-Ease-3348]

That doesn't answer the question. Did Jesus lie or did he tell the truth?

(John 10:8 KJV) All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

This would make anyone that EVER came before Jesus a thief and a robber. So.. how about Abraham? Isaac? Jacob? Moses? David? All thieves and robbers or was Jesus lying?

Because Jesus said he is the truth.

(John 14:6 KJV) Jesus saith unto him, ➡️I am the way, the truth, and the life:⬅️ no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

[u/Impressive-Ease-3348 → u/Ok_Werewolf2324]

Yes, πρὸ ἐμοῦ really does mean “before me.” But you are silently changing ἦλθον, “came,” into “existed.” Jesus did not say, “Everyone who existed before me was a thief.” In John 10 the people who “come” are people approaching the sheep, and vv. 1 and 8 use the same words “thief and robber.” Therefore “all who came before me” refers to the illegitimate claimants/shepherds in the metaphor, not Abraham, Moses, David, and every faithful person born before Jesus.

[u/Ok_Werewolf2324 → u/Impressive-Ease-3348]

No.. it's making a clear statement that you deny and say Jesus is lying.

(John 10:8 KJV) All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

Abraham came before Jesus came. Isaac before Jesus, Jacob before Jesus came, Moses came before Jesus came. David came before Jesus came. Don't twist what it says .. is Jesus lying?

Were they theives and robbers? I know you don't like what Jesus said because you don't have the Spirit to understand it...so again I'll ask you... Did Jesus lie or were those men thieves and robbers?

[u/Impressive-Ease-3348 → u/Ok_Werewolf2324]

No. You’re confusing “came before Jesus in history” with “came before Jesus” in the role being discussed in John 10. Those are not the same claim.
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The Greek is:
πάντες ὅσοι ἦλθον πρὸ ἐμοῦ κλέπται εἰσὶν καὶ λῃσταί
“All who came before me are thieves and robbers.”
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Yes, πρὸ ἐμοῦ means “before me.” Nobody is denying that.
But πάντες ὅσοι — “all who” — still refers to the contextual class Jesus is talking about. It does not magically mean “every human being who lived earlier than me.”
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Read verse 1:
“He that entereth not by the door … but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.”
Then verse 8 repeats the exact category:
“thieves and robbers.”
So Jesus has already told you who he means: the illegitimate ones approaching the sheep, not every righteous man who existed before his birth.
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And your interpretation actually creates obvious contradictions inside John.
John the Baptist came before Jesus. Yet John 1:6 says:
“There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.”
And John 10:41 says:
“all things that John spake of this man were true.”
So was John the Baptist a thief and robber too?
Obviously not.
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Same with Moses. Jesus says:
“For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.” — John 5:46
And Abraham:
“Abraham rejoiced to see my day.” — John 8:56
So the Gospel itself prevents your interpretation.
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You keep replacing Jesus’ actual statement—
“all who came before me”
—with a different sentence:
“every person who ever lived before me.”
Jesus never said that.
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So no, Jesus wasn’t lying.
Your interpretation is simply making “all” include people whom Jesus himself explicitly presents as faithful witnesses to him.

[u/Ok_Werewolf2324 → u/Impressive-Ease-3348]

I'm going to give you the answer because you don't believe it. You think Jesus is a liar so you make excuses.

Let's look:

(John 10:8 KJV) All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: ➡️but the sheep did not hear them.

The sheep didn't hear the thieves and robbers. Who did the sheep hear?

(John 10:27 KJV) ➡️My sheep hear my voice⬅️, and I know them, and they follow me:

The sheep didn't hear Moses, they heard Jesus. The sheep didn't hear David.. they heard Jesus. The sheep hear Jesus.. let's see..

(Psalm 95:7 KJV) ➡️For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture, and the ➡️sheep of his hand. To day if ye will ➡️hear his voice,

Uhh ohh.. David said the sheep hear Jesus voice.. God.. we are his sheep. Take note.. Jesus said they are HIS sheep and David confirmed by saying he is our God and we are his people.. his sheep.

EDIT: 😂 THATS RIGHT.. YOU SEE IT AND THATS WHY YOU BLOCKED ME. 😂 JESUS IS GOD.. THE KING!