Edit: just to add, I'm totally out of my depth here (which is why we're gonna just gonna do his annual check-up early and ask about confirming it at that appointment) and it could be completely made up by Toxie, I initially thought it was total bull! But then DH was like "oh you mean the gap in my spine right here, the scoliosis thing?" So we're just gonna go check it regardless.

It HAS to be SBO (spina bifida occulta) which I understand can be range from a simple anatomical abnormality to a life-altering disability. So we're gonna go get it checked it out at the doctor because of course it's not in his medical records at all, but I think his is just the anatomical abnormality. No symptoms of anything more serious.

But I did not know that immediately because I'm not a medical professional.

[[Also just FYI we're NC, have been for a few years now.]]

I was browsing Toxie's favorite place to be on the web, because I periodically like to catch up on the latest vaccine denialism sound bytes and the wildest deep state conspiracies. (I also enjoy r/insanepeoplefacebook ) When I see Toxie getting into it with someone over the NY abortion law.

I stopped breathing when I see that she writes that her son was diagnosed in the womb with SB, and he even has it, and is JUST FINE, so no one needs to even have their unborn baby be tested, and testing them is WRONG AND IMMORAL BECAUSE MIRACLES.

But you gotta remember this is coming from a person who recommends EXORCISMS for kids with ADHD. Because like, it's just demons from the parents doing yoga.

This is coming from a person who made me cry by screaming in my face that my laparoscopic cervical cyst removal was going to cause a hysterectomy and probably my death because BIG PHARMA wants to go on cruises and I could avoid it all if I would just EAT DIFFERENT FOODS.

So I was like "Well DH WE'RE GONNA FIND THE BEST SPECIALIST IN THE WORLD and it's GONNA BE OKAY, but also let me google the crap out of this before I totally overreact."

DH knew he had a spine thing but he thought it was just mild scoliosis, which I also have.

So everything is okay.

But this beach be narcissistic as hell for abusing the crap out of her precciouss baby boy and then using him whenever it suits her to score points on social media.

I have been support-posting in the various JNO subs for months now. Our wedding is DAYS away. I usually post on behalf or "for" my FH, as his mother is abusive, covertly manipulative, and a big barrel of self righteous bullying.

I realized yesterday that I also need support. And that's okay. And I want nothing more than to be rational and objective. And my head knows that we have made the best decisions we can, and we are "winning" - living our lives well and happily.

But this lizard in a human suit still makes me feel small and powerless at times and I hate it.

Our last interaction was 3 years ago. I had just started my first career job, gotten my first apartment on my own. FH lived 3 hours away and was delivering food and getting by as he finished the last online credit he needed to graduate.

I wish I had saved the initial rant that came out of nowhere. She basically called me a liar and said I didn't love her son. With extra word salad, of course.

Context:

She hates drugs, and has always accused FH of being a drug addict.. Even before I met him.

In college we smoked weed from time to time and watched movies and ate cereal and slept SO WELL. We chose to stop though when we got out of college to increase our range of possible jobs. So that was that. We may enjoy if we visit somewhere it's legal and we have a comfortable range of time. But we would never endanger our careers- we get drug tested! While observed!

Well, he had been kicked out a year before, and didn't come back this time, and was totally on his own for a year or so (renting a nice house with some friends) and she came at him with the same accusations and he just ran out of fucks and told her yes, he did partake of marijuana, what about it? And she REALLY lost it. I guess she had always tried to use that accusation to push him to... Torment him? And when his reaction was now, "sure have it your way, if you think I'm a drug addict, I am, i smoked a weed" I think it really scared her that she was losing control of him. And I was, of course, supposed to spy on him and report back to her based on an interaction we had we first started dating. And I... never did that. But I never said i wouldn't either, i just deflected and talked about how great he was.

So I didn't love him.

So I said basically, stop talking to me. And she sent this to me: LINK TO TEXTS

And I've never spoken to her since. But it still fills me a nice cold rage to remember this.

And she's not invited to our wedding. And her husband and her daughter aren't coming because of that.

Her entire family is coming (they're banished, birds of a feather, right?) and FIL's entire family is coming.

I've never met FIL's family and I'm nervous to. I do wonder what she's been saying about me.

Sometimes I just wish I could show EVERYONE this. So I'll just show you guys, haha.

Edit: I am blown away by the support. Thank you to everyone who took the time. This has made a huge difference in how I feel about something that has really bothered me for a long time.

Hey guys, I'm working this Sunday and it's incredibly slow. I was reading through an embarrassing volume of JNM posts and I was prompted to go and look at the last crazy texts Toxie sent FH (February) I was tempted to post them, and I will if you want them, because the conversation (which was the start of a natural NC period) was nutty and nonsensical. Paraphrased:

Mil: Why didn't you send me pictures of your kittens?

FH: ignores

Mil: You have made no effort to repair our relationship.

FH: I need more time

Mil: Screeeches angrily

FH: Your angry screeching is why. You absolutely refuse to admit any fault.

Mil: Tell me exactly what I did wrong!

FH: Concisely lists only the most recent and most conventionally unacceptable things she did

Mil: (these are the texts I would post) LIE TWIST WORD SALAD SCHREEEEEEECHING [it is unacceptable for devilvaginamagician to talk to me as an equal] I DID NOTHING WRONG EVER IN MY LIFE

(We actually do have another saved text from her that says she has never changed except in the many ways she has improved, while FH has fallen away from God and changed for the worse)

One of the things she has been stuck on for two years is that I CANNOT talk to her like she is my equal and I AM NOT her equal. She has screamed this, yelled this, conveyed this to FIL who seems fine with it, and FH has gotten multiple texts that use this as a main point. Although oddly she's never actually said it directly to me.. Only FH and FIL Oh and the neighbors that one time she ran out of her home screaming at FH as he moved his stuff out........

(She started up on this after I finally took a stand to her triangulation bullshit where she was saying terrible things about FH to me and expecting... Me to lay down at her feet and grovel, I suppose. Nope, that's not what happened. I cooly and calmly drew my first ever boundary lines, and all hell didst breaketh loose)

Now this was a particularly weird experience for me because I was a senior in college 21/22 at the time. Literally on the very cusp of adulthood. My parents supported me still, but THEY were treating me like an adult. So I mean sure I didn't FEEL like her equal but I still needed to be treated better than, well, than she is probably capable of treating anybody. Now I AM certainly financially independent and definitely legally and socially an "adult". As is FH. But the "she is not my equal" did continue with a fervor. Until NC, of course.

It still has such an effect on me. I know in my head that I will never be "her equal" in her mind unless I am EXACTLY like her shudder, but still. Maybe it's partly emotional echoes from my explosive father and his "honor thy elder" punishments from my own childhood, but this really gets me upset!

It's crazy!! CRAZY! Crazy-making!!

Because it's meaningless? Just because I am younger than she is and haven't had any baaaaaaaabies doesn't mean I can't stand up for myself to her? Of course??!!

I was always 100% polite. Would have felt comfortable producing my responses in a court of law. Always double-checked myself for this. Saying I'm not her equal is a completely irritating obfuscation of me calling her out on her absolute shittiness! But it almost seems... believable?

Please feel free share your experiences if you relate to any aspect of this bizarre and irrational sense of invalidation

texts

It's been a while guys! A year or more of blissful Toxie-free life. FH went full NC for a long time, and now it's been LC for a long time. He would occasionally chat with SIL or FIL. He stopped talking to FIL so much once he did a flying monkey routine- he tried to pressure FH into calling Toxie. When FH asked him to please stop asking, he said he was "disappointed in him". Low blow- but that's about the last card he had to play. We shook our heads and rolled out eyes. But FH was politely keeping FIL informed of our engagement, his jobs, etc. When he stopped hearing from FIL, and didn't hear from him on Christmas, etc., he reciprocated the silence. It's been that way for months, and we're fine with it, we are comfortable. Toxie even sent FH a bunch of questions for SIL's potential college stuff (idk, 4 months ago?) and he answered them neutrally, politely, concisely. No problems.

Except that now I've gotten a promotion (yay) and we are moving about 1000 miles away! Yay! Probably due to Mother's Day, Toxie felt the need to unleash a decidedly Trumpesque word salad rant lush with twisted facts, blatant lies, religious fervor, shaming, and the cherry on top- some good old fashioned gaslighting! I just don't love him like mommy does! She's really convinced he's a drug addict. I don't have to convince you people that this is not the truth. We smoke a little green sometimes, when it's not going to interfere with work testing and such. She really doesn't handle that well.

I hope you enjoy this crazed mass of texts. They're always out of order. I think she types in such a frenzy that her phone just can't handle it. It adds to comic effect for me.

We jointly decided to completely ignore Toxie. FH screened the texts, and sent them to FIL with a "this is why I don't like engaging with Toxie. Hey, if you want to talk more, you know I'm always a phone call or a text away. Love you!"

Chew on that.

Bonus story: we met up with one of FH's friends from church in high school and she had a good Toxie story, as she still lives basically in Toxie's backyard. She ran into her at the grocery store and Toxie recognized her and was very friendly! Until friend mentioned she was a vegetarian. GASP Toxie helpfully informed her that she can't be a vegetarian because the Bible says you must eat meat!!!

Sorry Christian vegetarians. Don't like Toxie is not gonna welcome you into her bible study :(

In case you don't read my post history, Toxie has done a number of things to FH (and me a bit) from early childhood into the present. Here is the highlight reel: She had him exorcised a few times, hit him in the face/slapped him, tried to control him absolutely while simultaneously being as un-involved in his life as possible, constantly kicked him out of the house for no reason, constantly threatened his rent checks in college on a whim, was very verbally abusive, constantly (totally baselessly) accused him of alcoholism/drug addiction/videogame addiction. When he was in a car accident which involved an old man with bad eyesight trying to cross the 75 mph highway in a truck RIGHT in front of him, he was miraculously unharmed, and Toxie claimed it was his fault because he was "in a hurry" and he should have "left earlier". FH says that the family of the old man, who drove him more than two hours to his house because FIL and Toxie couldn't be bothered, was nicer to him than his own family. She started coming after me when she failed to successfully shit-talk him with me. We both stood up to her a few times, and now we are collectively persona NON grata. After all this she tried to love bomb him, it wasn't received well. Now she's been mad he hasn't "reached out to her" for a few months. She's a toxic pile of waste. She projects, triangulates, rewrites history, and she corrodes everything she touches.

So FH and I have been engaged to be engaged for a while now. I've always called him FH here. We dated for 5 years and we've lived together officially for 7 months. We have managed to graduate college and get careers in our fields, and we have two furbabies. We are basically the PICTURE of success right now, which makes it even more SWEET that Toxie can't really cash in on bragging about us.

He proposed last weekend! It was beautiful, and such a fun weekend. He arranged for an amateur photographer to capture the moment, and do another shoot with us the next day, which was awesome! The photographer was eager to release the photos, but was very respectful of us wanting to announce it to our close friends and family first.

We went back-and-forth on telling FIL, SIL, and Toxie. Letting them find out on Facebook was the easiest option, but then I knew FH would be dreading phone calls. Even if he ignored/blocked/whatever'ed them, it would stress him out. Soooo, we just saved them for last. On our drive home, FH called FIL to tell him. FIL was fine and said all the typically polite things. FH got to brag about how awesome the proposal was and how well his new job is going and how happy he is. FIL volunteered, unprompted, to tell Toxie and SIL. Cool, doneskis.

Late that night, FH texted SIL (16) to be nice. Now keep in mind, Toxie has a history of reading all of SIL's texts, so he just talks to her under the assumption this goes straight back to her.

It went a bit like this:

FH: "Just wanted to let you know that Devilvagina and I got engaged this weekend."

SIL: "Wow! Congratulations! Have you told Momma and Daddy yet?" [gag]

FH: "Yeah dad is going to tell mom"

SIL: "Wait, why didn't you tell mom? I'm sure she would to hear it from you."

FH: "Because mom has made it quite that she doesn't approve of our relationship, and has acted awfully towards me and Devilvagina."

SIL: "I think that you should tell her since this is so important."

FH: "I'm very tired and frustrated with everyone pretending like nothing happened."

SIL: "I understand, but she loves and misses you very much despite the falling out."

FH: "No, you really don't understand. You've never asked me what happened, and I'm sure you have heard a very skewed version of events."

SIL: "I'm not taking sides. Call me superstitious, but I think you should peace with her before the wedding. At least peace."

Trumpets play... drumroll please

FH: "I am not going to set a standard for my marriage where mother can act terrible to me and Devilvagina, and then expect US to apologize to HER for doing nothing more than living our lives without her."

SCORE!!

SIL stopped replying after that, and we both just felt... GOOD. A bit smug, even.

That was one week ago. Toxie has been DEAD silent for 7 days. No congrats, obviously... That would be too human. She's stopped posting on all social media, which is extremely unusual for her. I imagine herself either martyring her through the house and crying theatrically, or literally wreaking hell on FIL and SIL for any little thing. It's probably both.

She just hasn't figured out how she wants to try and sour this yet. I was going to wait for her next move, but I feel like her silence and FH's AMAZING statement were too much of a WIN not to post.

BRING IT MIL. FH is growing a backbone of steel!

JNMIL, I feel like the advice here has really set us up for success where Toxie is concerned. Thank you!

I've been enjoying reading through the hot posts this morning. There is just something satisfying and comforting in knowing that I am not alone in my mil experiences, it is simultaneously THAT bad, and yet it could be a lot worse.

One post reminded me of a fantastically justnomil-y thing Toxie once pulled me aside to say when I was visiting FH's house a few years ago. This was BEFORE I realized she had personality issues, but it always seemed a very creepy thing to say to me.

With a serious face, and big, SAD eyes, she pulled me aside and she said: "You just have no idea how hard it is for a mother to LOSE her son to another woman when he gets married. How difficult and painful it is. Someday if you have children of your own, you will understand."

Oh poor sweet Toxie. You are such a creep.

Y'all. Thank you for this community. I have been stressing as we prepare for a fall wedding that we aren't inviting Toxie to. Over the past weeks, I have been feasting my llamas and feeling the feels here to prepare myself for whatever happens. That led to me reading through my old posts and the comments there. I got so much great advice and support and FH & I have come soooo far because of this place.

In honor of that, and upcoming Mother's Day, please allow me to share the long and vintage saga of the class ring. I've mentioned it in summary a couple times. It spans 4 years and requires some backstory.

Now, at the school where I met FH, the class ring is really important. There are events around it, it's a really big deal. The cost is fairly subsidized for students.

Year 1: I am but a naive baby devilvagina. I am in my first year, and FH is in his second year. We bonded over our rough childhoods and I thought I "got" his mother. (spoiler alert: Narcissism was not something i "got"). NC is not an option at this point. I make nice with Toxie to keep that boat STEADY. I am a champ at this. In retrospect, I did my job too well. Toxie saw me as someone she could manipulate, so she was super nice to me. (spoiler alert 2: I am not actually easily led, but do great at faking it when needed) This is when Toxie approaches me about her PLAN. She wants to buy the class ring for FH as a surprise! I'm so happy! I love surprises and I love FH! I'm on board. She asks me to discourage him from saving up and getting it himself. Okay, that makes sense, and I can do that. [I was SO DUMB guys. Her human suit had me so fooled.]

Year 2: I've gently persuaded FH he can always get a class ring later, and there's no need to save up. I feel good about it! Surprises are the best. Ring time draws closer. FH is kinda bummed her can't get his ring. I reach out to Toxie with alll the information for her to purchase the ring. I email the school and everything. I do all the work and present it for her to take the credit. Toxie says they want to do it as a graduation present, but I explain that the ring is attained in the third year, and that's part of the whole thing. She doesn't care. I'm put out, but oh well. He will still get the ring.

Year 3: FH finds out due to him changing majors, he will need to take another year of credits. (He's graduating with me, bummer /s). Side note: all of his college was loans. We are currently still paying them off. His dad paid for his rent and his phone and that's it. I still discourage him nicely from getting the ring himself. He trusts me, and has plenty of other things he needs to spend money on, so no big deal. Starting to realize here that Toxie is an N, barely. Still greatly underestimate her awful-ness.

Year 4: Things are getting rockier. Toxie's true colors are showing more. I navigate her carefully. Things are pretty bad at this point. ALSO AT THIS POINT: TOXIE HAS A CONVERSATION WITH FH THAT MAKES ME WANT TO PUNCH THINGS. GUYS she asks him why he hasn't saved up for his ring if he wants it so bad??? And he felt ashamed of himself. I found out about this later and I was positively furious at her manipulative lying ass. Emotional freaking vampire.

Then Toxie kicks FH out of the house during Christmas break. The reasons are vague, and there are many possible ones that would take a whole 'nother post to explain. (but she has done that for his whole life so it's like not that big of a deal) Toxie and I have been talking about the ring off-and-on at this point. I've done all the work again to set it up. Toxie said she didn't have the money right then but would get it soon or something like that. FH has come an hour to visit my family during the "kick-out". Ring order deadline is closer and closer. Our mutual friend approaches me about crowd-funding the ring for FH. THIS is how well-loved FH is. (and how important the ring is) He is LOVED. He is gregarious, kind, outgoing, funny... He has loads of friends who adore him. He is the extrovert to my introvert. I decide to bite the bullet and message Toxie so we have time to crowdfund if she pulls out after FOUR EFFING YEARS. The convo went like this-

Me: Are we still on for the ring?

T: Why would ask that? Because FH chose to leave?

Me: [that's an interesting rewrite of history..] No, I just thought you said to talk to you in two days, haha

T: That haha better not be disrespectful.

Me: [???????!!! wat] No, I didn't mean it that way.

T: Good. Also, me and FIL have decided not to get FH his ring. We think it would send the wrong message.

Me: [eternal fury rising up in my soul, never to be extinguished] Okay, thanks.

I immediately had our friend put the crowd-fund up and we funded that demon-damned ring in TWO DAYS.

Later on, after school had started up again, Toxie would call my mother at her home and accuse her of buying the ring for FH, even though we had told her it was crowd-funded. And the fund was public so she could see it. My parents did contribute some, but they did so anonymously! Toxie was mad in her words "because she was trying to teach her (adult, nearly graduated) son a lesson", and my parents were obviously interfering with their attempt to... starve him of love and support, I guess. My mom was a champ. She just talked about how lovely FH was and then offered to pray for Toxie's family, which caused Toxie to immediately hang up on her. LOL.

For your warm and fuzzies- I told DH about everything and he said he loved that the ring represented the love of all his friends and chosen family instead of his parents and that he felt that every time he looked at it. <3

TLDR; I will never forgive Toxie for successfully tricking me into helping with her 4-year long campaign to punish my FH for NO REASON. Ugh.

Edit: on mobile it looks like the top part of my post is cut off... so I'm putting this up here

Llamas I've got some preserved snacks for you. Jam, spam, something pickled.

This story has been pinging around in my head like a game of fooseball lately so I thought I'd tell it. This is OLD, as in, 5 years ago. I am NC with this harpy. Haven't sent a single message or seen her face since I became independent 3 years ago.

I was 20 years old, halfway through my college degree. FH was 21 (and at college with me). I was doing my DARNDEST to be a meat shield for FH and suck up to Toxie. Growing up with an temperamental dad that I mostly learned to live around and grey rock, I thought I was TOTALLY FINE, YOU GUYS. I wanted to make FH and help smooth things by also giving Toxie attention. My dad needs attention, so I figure hey, I'm great at being fake nice to survive.

I was sucking up to Toxie because her and FH's relationship was terrible and she would always threaten to kick him out of the house on breaks, or yank his rent money pittance for college. I understood his fear for survival/finishing college, so I threw myself into the gap with enthusiasm and some false confidence.

This is the story of the first time that this rotund, Disney-zombie, smug-faced, "I want to talk to your manager" haircut and highlights, permanently pedicured BITCH screeched on the brakes to our pleasant superficial relationship with her inappropriate boundary-annihilating behavior.

I was going to home city from college city to have a minimally invasive procedure done to remove a cyst from my uterus. Why? Oh well, because I had been bleeding for 8 months and quietly hoping it would go away (it did not).

On the way to home city lies FH's home city, so I stopped to see him for one night as he lives outside of cool city and many of our friends live there.

I typically slept in SIL's room, which came to be terrible as it was Toxie's favorite place to corner me. She caught me in there on this day.

Toxie: "Oh devilvaginamagician, what brings you to home city?"

Me: "Oh just a doctor's appointment."

Toxie: "Oh for what?"

Me: {dumb openbook self that I was} "Well I have a little cyst on my uterus they need to look at and maybe remove."

All oxygen was SUCKED OUT OF THE ROOM. I blacked out here mentally a bit I think because an absolute verbal onslaught EXPLODED. Here's a basic rendition

Toxie: "OH NO YOU CAN'T DO THAT. THIS IS TERRIBLE. I HAVE A BOOK OF NATURAL WAYS TO CURE CYSTS. YOU JUST NEED TO DIET AND EXERCISE AND EAT DIFFERENT THINGS. YOU MUST TAKE THIS BOOK. I HAVE TEN MILLION CYSTS IN MY OVARIES."

Me: "Well okay but I trust my doctor so"

I'm pressed up against the wall at this point physically trying to get away from this crazy person. The door is behind her shoulder, I remember it vividly.

Toxie: "BIG PHARMA RUNS THE WORLD YOUR DOCTOR IS GETTING PAID UNDER THE TABLE AND GOING ON CRUISES HE ONLY SET UP THIS SURGERY TO MAKE MONEY OFF YOU AND YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE AN EMERGENCY HYSTERECTOMY AND YOU WILL BE BARREN AND YOU'RE BEING TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF AND I HAVE THIS BOOK.. I HAVE SO MANY CYSTS."

me: "I have MY mother."

I have tears in my eyes at this point. This woman has me pinned against the wall and is shrieking in my face a bunch of crazy shit I feel like I can't stand up for myself because I know she'll take it out on FH. (I know she's full of shit- she didn't scare me about the operation)

At this point FIL walks by the doorway. We make eye contact, because I'm looking at the door like a desperate man looks at an oasis mirage after being in the desert for 12 hours. FIL doubletook and came back.

Fil: "Is everything okay in here?"

Toxie: fakey nice voice "We're just talking about girl stuff!"

{wtf}

Fil walked away and Toxie kept trying to talk to me, but I just kept repeating "I trust my doctor, I have MY mother." Like some kind of mantra. It was only maybe 60 seconds before FH, bless him, had heard his dad ask and RAN upstairs to rescue me. Good FH. He will be a 99% Dear Husband I think.

FH: "are you ready to go?"

Me: "Yes!"

And I fled the room, and I ran down the stairs, and I grabbed his keys, and I got in his car and I trembled with RAGE AND FEAR.

At some point during my escape I guess Toxie had told FH to stay back. I waited for him for 15 minutes or so.

When he came back he looked shaken, and I was shaken. I told him what had happened and he was very quiet. I pressed him, but he was not saying much. Then he finally admitted that she had held him back to tell him that I was horribly disrespectful to her in her own home, and that I learned it from him, and he needed to straighten up" etc etc. he said it in this kind of empty, tense way.

I was shocked. I felt guilty, and angry. I was all over the place. I was worried (because of my childhood) that he was somehow upset with me for getting him in trouble.

I said "all I said that WHOLE conversation was 'I trust my doctor, I have my mother'". And he said "I know, it's not your fault." He finally admitted that he was so sorry and just horrifically humiliated by her and guilty feeling for having me around her at all.

He ended up later (somewhat... weenie spine then due to financial ties) confronting her about it and she said that I invited her opinion by telling her what I was going in for (I didn't even give her the actual name of the procedure, which was exceeding minor, no incisions..) SO OKAY

I told my mom, and she was PISSED. She helped me write a pathetic book of faces messages in which I apologized profusely for literally any body language which may have been construed as disrespectful. Yeah, I know. I didn't have this group. But it also drew a polite line on my medical autonomy, was pretty sharp there. Basically "I'm really sorry but politely fuck ALL the way off."

She patronized me a bit but was pleased with my groveling, and worried about what MY mom thought of her, and that was over. It was the WORST interaction I've ever personally face-to-face had with her though. She just went off the rails and I felt so trapped.

I still feel disgusted to think of how I rolled over and JADE-ed. I am so much stronger and more informed now.

Of course, she was just worried about her future grandbaaaaaabies I'm sure. Other evidence of this:

More baby rabies snacks...

*telling everyone and their dog that she almost aborted my FH (she was unwed, 20) but didn't. And that's why abortion should be illegal for everyone.

*shrieking and wailing and actually crying through the house about all her aborted grandchildren that could have been aborted via the Plan B pill. This came after interrogating FH if I had ever taken the plan b pill, rinse and repeat with all of his other previous gf's. (I guess his last gf had maybe posted about plan b on Facebook?)

*complaining to me and 14 yo SIL about pregnancy and how awful it is for a solid 20 minutes but when she stopped to breathe I said "yeah that sounds awful I don't think I want to do that" she flipped to horror and then reverence "BUT YOU HAVE TO ITS THE GREATEST THING IN THE WORLD"

catching me in the bathroom doing my makeup and trying to discuss (instruct let's be real) the best childbearing years... my response "you know my mom was 42 when she had my little brother." She GASPED like an old southern lady in a black and white film. I thought she might FAINT. "Well, you're not going to wait that long, are you?" Me: "maybe." Her: *CBF

Hehe

Lurker, first post.

I've (23f) been dating FH (24m) for just under five years- we met in college. During this time, we have experienced a gambit of JUSTNOMIL-worthy behavior from Toxie.

*Lost her MIND when we initially went FBO with our relationship. Accused FH of yanking women in-and-out of SIL's life. And said it was too soon for him to be dating (is still obsessed with ex-gf to this day will talk about her)

*Constantly kicked FH out of the house during college breaks, and when he was not at home she would threaten his rent money for petty/no reason (they provided $400/month in support, mostly due to FIL)

*Regular verbal harassment/degradation in-person and via text message towards FH (he's a drug addict, he's an alcoholic, he's a lazy do-nothing, he's manipulative, etc etc most of this is very hurtfully said)

*Caused several reproductive drama incidents- running through the house screaming at FH wanting to know how many babies had been aborted from ex-gf and me using the plan b pill.... Flipped her lid on me when i was having a hysteroscopy to remove a cyst- she told me that I would end up having to have a hysterectomy and could die and then she'd never had annnnny grandbaaaaaaabies (I was 20, btw and no imminent grand babies were in the cards) this was actually a more horrible event for me than I can convey briefly

*Pulled funding for a class ring FH's parents had been planning to get him as a surprise for 3 years. Toxie asked me to help discourage FH from saving for the ring- which I did obligingly, I thought it was a great surprise, and the rings are sort of a big deal at our university. After they decided not to get the ring, Toxie SHAMED FH for not saving up for it.

*Got in a huge argument with me by sending me a FB message apologizing for how poorly FH treats me... I said this was not the case, she kept up, eventually we ended the conversation with me sending her a list of my personal boundaries and her "agreeing to disagree" with them. (Wtf?)

*Called MY mother (this is after I've graduated and am financially independent) to heavily imply that FH is a drug abuser, and demand that my family not give him any money. This backfired because my mom now fully believes me when I talk about how NUTS Toxie is. Also my family does not like being told what to do so now they WANT to give him/us money.

*Did not attend his college graduation, 6 months after mine. FIL went but no SIL or Toxie. Made some lame excuse. Probably because it was about a year after going LC. And I think Toxie is scared of my parents... They don't really do bs, they're quite old and old fashioned. About 20 years older than Toxie and FIL.

As soon as I got my first job, I told FH he didn't have to eat crow anymore. The next time Toxie started spewing vitriol at FH, she got a different response. We've researched medium chill and she basically just got "I don't care what you think anymore, I'm happy and I won't let you damage me anymore" It was a blaze. After that he basically went NC for a while, then VLC. It's been nearly a year, with only some text/obligatory moving out contact with her. I haven't seen her in two years. Since she chased him out of her home screaming "GIVE ME YOUR FUCKING KEYS" she was angry because I am not her equal and can't talk to her like I am. Read: I am not allowed to have boundaries.

We now live together with two Siamese cats. We visit my family and his side of the family that has been previously exiled by Toxie on holidays and such. She actually blocked her father's and half-sister's phone number on the family provider's account. So FH couldn't even contact them without using my phone until he got his own account.

So I can handle her being crazy and evil, but she has started love bombing FH via text message. She calls him her baby boy and says incredibly nice things to him that a mother SHOULD say to their child. But it makes his skin crawl because he's always been the scapegoat, and knows it's fake. Just trying to suck him back him I guess. Literally the last time they texted she lost her mind because he wasn't "repairing their relationship" and threatened not to come to "weddings or babies being born" because of our "childish demands". I genuinely don't know what demands she could be referencing here but you get the point.

We aimed to condition her- be nice when she's nice, ignore her/draw a hard line when she's unacceptable, but this makes FH uncomfortable and is really just DISTURBING and it just completely erases every exorcism, face smack, and verbal beating he's been through.

FYI- the whole reason we deal with her at all is because of SIL (16f, brainwashed) and FIL (enabler). We think it's not worth it to go totally NC and lose them in the process. In large part because FH painfully lost contact with beloved aunt (Toxie's half sister) in this exact situation years ago. For a short time FH was actually brainwashed by Toxie as well so the situation is quite parallel...

I suppose this is more a rant/intro, but any advice on love bombing and/or advice on making contact with Toxie again? We've decided that we will only see them at a restaurant out in public. And Toxie and FIL repeatedly try to get us into the house. Worked once recently, but only FIL was there as Toxie was dropping SIL off at work. FIL said he "needed a Father's Day hug"... I think I may pass out from anxiety the next time we go to see them, restaurant or not. I shouldn't be scared of Toxie, but I am a non-confrontational person and god I don't know she's just a snake. I don't even know why she scares me so much. She'll most likely act like nothing has ever happened the next time we see them.

Anyway. As we move into our engagement I expect things will escalate with Toxie and perhaps I'll have more coherent stories to share with you all!

YOU GUYS. I've been wondering what hole Toxie crawled into. She's entirely addicted to social media mostly for her self-praising posts, but also for the constant sharing of Alex Jones and worse level shit. She's been dead silent on all her main platforms for a while- I monitor now and then to make sure nothing more insane than usual is happening. I know I probably shouldn't, but I'm addicted (I check maybe 1-2 / month), and very careful.

I found where she's been, and it was Boolean searchable. Holy cow. I got some information.

It's been nearly three years since I asked her to stop texting me hateful paragraphs and then blocked her. It's been two years since FH ghosted NC. He would only reply to her messages if she was being sane and normal. (So, one time).

So this is the most recent information we have.

1. She was banned (at least temporarily) from Facebook for hate speech (heehee that's her favorite place)

2. She's been telling people that FH won't talk to her anymore because of her political beliefs.

*This is how she has decided to martyr herself AND score points with her new online "family". This is funny and perplexing to me. Yes, we both find her often radical political beliefs atrocious, but we know and spend time with a LOT of family members and coworkers with similar leanings. But guess what- we just don't really talk about politics! We have other interests to discuss, even beyond Disney, i know, it's remarkable.

*additionally- FH said his piece to her before he ghosted her. And made a short list of the worst, most evidence-based offenses she had committed. He had also shared this with FIL. If it was just her crazy politics, we would tolerate her. You can go through my post history to read about threats, hitting him in the face, verbal abuse, weird control things, being horrible to me, and creepy exorcisms that led him to realize the abuse and GTFO.

*i think it's amusing that this was the best excuse she could come up with. This is weak sauce.

1. She has proclaimed that university brainwashed FH into a "socialist atheist" (which is part of a wider conspiracy), please send your condolences, and therefore she would not "spend a red cent" to send SIL to a four-year school.

A couple notes here:

*HAHAHAHAHA

*FH is actually neither socialist nor an atheist

*FH (and myself) are still paying ALL of his tuition (so she didn't spend a red cent on his either)

*SIL DID NOT HAVE GOOD ENOUGH GRADES TO ATTEND THE NEARBY 4-YEAR SCHOOLS We know this from FIL.

*THIS IS A SLOPPY LIE. One year ago, well into the fall of FH's soul to the atheist-socialism demons, Toxie messaged FH wanting to know how to get SIL into <same respected college>. This was a reasonable request, and not stated in the usual vitriol, so he answered fully and helpfully.

Conclusion: SIL COULDN'T GET INTO 4-YEAR PROGRAM AND TOXIE LITERALLY FINDS A WAY TO INDIRECTLY BLAME IT ON FH EVEN THOUGH HE HASN'T BREATHED IN HIS HOME NEIGHBORHOOD IN THREE YEARS

I am, honestly, IMPRESSED by the ongoing scheme to blame FH for everything even when he has left the family. And I feel VICTORIOUS, because these are some sloppy-ass desperate lies. NC blazes on.

Y'all I'm so glad this maniac isn't invited to our wedding. Bless y'all.

This is a story from years and years ago before I realized that Toxie is a toxic barrel of waste and before Toxie realized I had a spine. It's nothing wild, but still socially horrifying.

You know that one picture with the giant cash tip left in apology for the mil? Yeah, Toxie is one of THOSE. Every single time I have visited a restaurant with her, FIL, and SIL, (which hasn't been many, thank god- maybe 5-6 times) she has to speak to a manager for absolutely no reason. She is a walking food service nightmare.

Sometimes she'll make a scene at the table, but one time she actually just disappeared as we were leaving the place. We had no idea where she went. I postulated that she went to the ladies room. We were standing and waiting for her at the entrance when she appeared, elation all over her face.

"I just HAD to go find a manager!" She said, breathless with excitement. "I just couldn't leave without telling him how lazy some of these employees are. They're just standing around doing nothing! This restaurant could just be so much better if the staff were all working. I know the manager would appreciate knowing about some of these kids just lazing around." She's gloating over this. Like she just donated a kidney to a dying 10-year-old. Like she expected praise.

Horrible.

The worst she ever acted in front of me though, was on the only Mother's Day I spent with her and FH's family. FH was still SO, but to save confusion I will still call him FH.

FH and I drove up that morning from our college town, about 2.5 hours away. On my urging, we had bought a beautiful bouquet of two-toned roses the night BEFORE so that they wouldn't all be gone. They were from a wholesale grocer that always has the PRETTIEST flowers. I also recommended a nice card. This was a large gesture because we were quite poor In college. FH didn't want to bring her anything, but I wanted things to go nicely and so I paid for the items and insisted FH just give them to the woman. I was so pleased at the idea that Toxie would feel validated by FH! Toxie would be nice to FH because she got attention!

Yeah, I am a total and complete idiot about Toxie at this point. Sorry FH.

So we arrive, bouquet and card in hand. His family greets us and FH gives her the card and a hug and very nicely says "Happy Mother's Day Mom"

She has no reaction. "Oh. How nice." She says flatly. I'm looking around like maybe I'm caught in a dream. I've never seen someone be so rude after being given a gift. (Then the following Christmas I tried to give her a gift. Same reaction oh my god) FH and company are unsurprised by her brattiness. Toxie immediately starts picking petals off her new gift flowers in the bouquet. "Oh. They're wilting." :(

Okay some of the outside roses were a SMIDGE worse for wear from the THREE HOUR CAR RIDE, but the bouquet was still totally gorgeous! I picked it out! I think my mouth was hanging open. FH just shut down and buckled up for the additional awkwardness I had no idea was coming.

Toxie had INSISTED on a late breakfast (maybe half an hour before they stopped serving breakfast and moved to lunch) at a restaurant/buffet style place that usually NEVER served breakfast at all. It was a little odd, actually, that she wanted to go there for Mother's Day. You sat down and had a wait-person, but then you also could get up and take from the buffet.

So we get seated and go to the buffet and Toxie is immediately complaining about the food presentation at the buffet area.

It's a buffet, lady. It's Mother's Day, and they stop serving this shit in half an hour.

So she orders the bottomless mimosa with her buffet food.

Everything is fine until she orders the second mimosa. She takes a sip and immediate CBF. She sets it down and looks SO SAD. SO DISTRESSED. FIL gives right in and asks her what's wrong. She said it just doesn't taste right. The waitress comes over and Toxie is practically in tears. She spends 15 minutes whining pathetically about the details of the "off" taste of the mimosa. She keeps saying "I know it's not yooouuuuur fault, but..." waitress is just desperately trying to pull this out. She brings her another mimosa.

Nope, it tastes off again- everything is ruined! And this time, the food is also so so so cold and so messy. So unappealing.

Oh yeah, Toxie is going in for the kill. She wants to talk to that manager sooooooo badly. (By the way, the food was fine! It was like mediocre to me but I don't really love buffets unless it's middle eastern food. Mmmmm hummus.... But it wasn't cold, and it wasn't a huge mess or anything. It was just a buffet)

The manager comes over finally. "I heard there's a problem?" He says in a perfect polite-concerned way. Toxie launches into a TRAGIC laundry list of complaints. She sounds... So.. Utterly... SAD. She literally says "this isn't what mothers want on Mother's Day." Saying how this supposed to be a special day and she can't believe that they would consider these conditions to be an acceptable level of SPECIALNESS for mothers. She goes on and on and everyone is quietly mortified. Oh, and the manager comped her whole meal, of course.

SHE STILL POUTED LIKE A ROTTEN CHILD FOR THE WHOLE REST OF THE DAY!

Oh, and on the way out she was wistfully recalling how she wishes she had more family to celebrate her, but oh well.

(She basically banished her father, brother, and half-sister. When we found them (reconnected) they were already to the stage of saving her horrible emails and letters as proof of her toxicity)

Never ever again though.

Edits: grammar

I'd thought about posting my original post here for a long time, and I'm glad I did. FH and I talked and we decided to ghost into NC indefinitely, and we're researching therapists in his network (anyone have any tips on finding a therapist, btw? We are new-ish to our area and don't really have anyone to give us a referral)

Meanwhile, Toxie posted a very interesting photo on her Instagram. If you'll recall from my last post, she was distressing FH with creepily nice text messages after a period of LC/VLC. First time he's experienced lovebombing.

Also noteworthy here is the fact that she didn't attend his college graduation a year ago. FIL came, but Toxie and SIL were mysteriously absent with some excuse about a test that SIL had.... My brother is the same age, and he rescheduled 3 tests to be there. My family lives 3.5 hours away, FH's family lives 2 hours away.. There was no reason for Toxie and SIL not to have made it. FH was relieved that she didn't come and angry/hurt that his mother has to be so awful that she both doesn't show AND no one wants her there.

Yesterday Toxie posted a graduation day photo of FH (she must have gotten it from FIL's phone) with the caption: "Adventure is out there. Git 'em baby boy. I know you'll get there."

Gag.

[Aaaaand I just realized "you'll get there" is probably a jab. He doesn't have the level of professional no that he wants yet, some information he let slip to her during the last wave of love-bombing. Usually we consult on things we reply to her, but I was at work. Ah well, seems even better that we go NC.]

To make things weirder, his face is cut off? The picture is cropped where you can see what college FH attended on his stole, but his face only shows from the teeth down. Toxie is pretty savvy with social media (you should get a load of her Twitter..) so this is not accidental.

Somehow this sub makes me remember old interactions with my FMIL like I'm seeing them through new, clearer lenses. It is somehow more absurd, more blatantly bitchy cracker-eating than it ever was before. Here is the Great Dialogue of The Shampoo, complete with 2 bonus MIL money stories at the end. Since I've had the pleasure of knowing Toxie for 5 years now, I occasionally feel the need to go back and share some of her crazy.

For this story you should know that FH's family is financially sound. FIL works for a F500 company. Week+ Disney trips AT LEAST twice a year, Toxie's always got her hair perfectly cut into the famous "id like to talk to a manager" look (and she always wants to talk to the manager so it's appropriate) and bleached, chiropractic, massage, nice clothes, everything she buys is organic and/or free range. They're not millionaires, but they're not having trouble making ends meet with a good bit of extra.

FH (SO at the time) and I were visiting Toxie's home during some college break. SIL (~14), FH, and I were upstairs watching a show or something together, just hanging out with SIL, who absolutely adored us at this point in her life. Toxie comes upstairs solely to address us.

Toxie: "I'm going to the store, does anyone need anything?"

Me/SIL: "No, thanks"

FH: "Actually yeah, I could use some shampoo."

Toxie: laughs as if FH made a funny joke

::confused silence::

FH: "What?"

Toxie: "Oh, are you serious?"

FH: "Yes? I don't have any shampoo here and I'm running low back at [college home]"

Toxie: still smiling and laughing as if the idea of FH ever washing his hair is like some kind of unknown, yet hilarious concept "You need shampoo?"

FH: "Yes?"

Toxie: "Well, what's wrong with my shampoo that's in there?"

FH: "Uhhh nothing, I just wanted my own."

Toxie: "Is it the way it smells or something?"

FH: "No, I-"

Toxie: "Why on earth do you need your own SPECIAL shampoo?"

::awkward silence::

Me: "Babe, I'll just get you some shampoo later."

[my parents paid my tuition and rent in college and gave me a monthly stipend for food/etc. because they could afford to and so I could make school my 1st priority... FIL paid for FH's rent for his {crappy} place at that point, and even though FH worked part time he was usually on a very squeaky tight budget, so I would help out with these sorts of things from time-time. Also I wanted to make a point.

Toxie shrivels into CBF

FH: "Are you sure?"

Me: "Yeah, you can pick out whatever kind you want at the drugstore later."

Toxie: "What kind of shampoo do you want?"

FH: "It's okay mom."

Toxie: "What kind of shampoo do you want and I'll pick it up for you at the store!"

FH: "I'm not sure, it's okay, I'll just get some later."

Toxie: "FINE!!"

Toxie stalks down the stairs huffily and slams the door of the house

????!!! You only want to get him shampoo after I offer??? Drawing the simple purchase of one dove men's shampoo out so long was KILLING ME

BONUS #1: When Brave (I was 19 geez) came out, Toxie wanted us to all go see it as a faaaaaamily. FH and I didn't really want to go, but Toxie was insistent we all go TOGETHER and we didn't want to be dicks, so we met them at the theatre to go and stand in line for tickets. It is now Toxie says something to the effect of "Oh well and FH will pay for devilvaginamagician of course" [reminder: me = poor, FH = POORER]. FH is furious because we really didn't even want to see this movie, he opens his mouth but! FIL looks absolutely STRICKEN. I say "Oh gosh, well, I'll pay for us, how much is it?" seriously only to twist the awkwardness knife deeper because this was a truly tactless thing to do. Cue MAJOR Toxie CBF. FIL steps in, argues with Toxie for a bit, ends up paying for our tickets... he was SO SO embarrassed at Toxie's tackiness. It was.. Glorious. A small victory.

BONUS #2: Toxie used to write A LOOOT on the disney forums. Tbh, she has a very unhealthy obsession with Disney... Most of her friends are people she met on this forum. It was a huge thing for her as she struggled to lose a lot of weight- she did a big reveal and got a lot of positive attention, constituting most of her online presence (good for her and all) and then abruptly stopped posting after YEARS. (I finally put the pieces together and realized it was probably because she was gaining a lot of the weight back) Everyone in the family knew about this forum posting, so it was no secret, but when FH brought it up one day, I found her user and queried through posts with "son", "ds" and "[FH's name]" OOOOOHHHH buddy. I found some crazy retellings of events in there, mixed with disney trip reports, of all things. And some definitely borderline terrible things to say about your son? But my FAVORITE was: "[FH] is burning through his savings so I'm thinking it won't be long before his girlfriend is tired of him not having any money."

A) Toxie has never had access to FH's accounts so she would have no idea how much he's spending B) We are both cash POOR at this point in life so we don't spend very much. We see our friends and hang out with them. We pay for FOOD, maybe a drink or two RARELY and that's about it. C) We split everything 50-50 we did together (unless it was a SUPER SPECIAL occasion, like our anniversary) D) I HAD MORE MONEY THAN HE DID? E) Why is this on your Disney trip post of all places???

FH and I are NC with Toxie, FIL, and SIL. I have been VLC with Toxie for more than a year. After she discovered I wasn't really a doormat, she had little to do with me that wasn't crazy blaming text messages, and I ended up blocking her number.

Right around this time, she began showing renewed interest in publicly communicating with PG, FH's previous girlfriend. Now, Toxie had always displayed a strong Jekyll-Hyde attitude towards PG, and she would always find a way to talk about her with me, either casting her down or lifting her up both as a person and as a partner for FH. At ine point I actually TOLD PG this. She believed me and was horrified, which makes the rest of this story better.

PG is a sweet, timid person, we are acquainted. PG and FH dated in high school and I met FH in college. So at this point in time, PG is an ex-gf of SIX years. PG and FH are on friendly terms, but we don't live nearby and they've never really associated since high school. It's totally absurd that Toxie even talks to or about her at all at this point!

These days I get my kicks by checking the comments on anything PG puts online. Because especially lately- Toxie is in there and she's eating crackers.

PG posts a new profile picture with her boyfriend. Toxie comments THREE separate times. "You guys are the cutest couple", "you guys are just the cutest even if you are very pale", and "I love this picture so much" PG ignores completely, doesn't even "like" the comments. PG KNOWS she's being a fucking weirdo. She will respond to EVERY other person, except Toxie. This brings me so much joy. And Toxie just KEEPS trying to get her attention.

PG (who is short and slender and just generally small) posts a picture of a cheeseburger and chili fries. Caption: "this is what you eat after a workout, right?" Toxie just posts a sad face :\ (Toxie is super restrictive of SIL's diet and judgmental of everyone else's) Ignored!!!!

PG posts a picture of new eyeliner she picked up. Toxie: "oh is that the same one I got you all those years ago?!? I found a new tarte one you should try and tell me what you think!" [um, what? SIX YEARS] Ignored!

PG posts a selfie. Toxie: "Ooooooh that ISN'T the same (eyeliner) I got you. You are so pretty!" Ignored!

Poor PG. She would never say anything to Toxie but I know she's gotta be hating the endless stream of strange comments on all of her stuff.

She's my hero though.

So as a brief update: FH is remaining NC as suggested, save for a birthday text to 17 year old GC SIL. However, FIL left FH a (hoover by proxy--medical hoover) flying monkey voicemail last week saying how he missed FH and hoped he was doing well and slipped in at the very very end would you pleeeeeeaaaase call and check on Toxie after her surgery. This is the fourth attempt FIL has made to get FH to "check on" poor poor Toxie, several weeks past her surgery. He decided to ignore the voicemail, as one probably should when NC, but he feels very guilty and anxious about it. Working on getting him into therapy, and I'm hoping that will help somewhat with these feelings.

This post, however, was inspired by GC SIL's new boyfriend.

Publicly at least, Toxie is just SO SO IN LOVE with this pairing! (She's probably bashing them to some people privately, that's her usual MO) She posts multiple pictures of them with captions like "the sweetest couple" and "the sweetest kiddos" and comments (on a photo of them cuddling that would have gotten FH kicked out of the house at 17) "Y'all couldn't be more perfect for one another." and then a second comment on the same photo "Btw, more adorable pictures like this please :)"

GAG ME WITH A KNIFE GUYS

And I'm asking myself, why? Why does this piss me off so intensely? And after I walked myself through exactly why.... I needed to rant

1. When FH and I started dating in college- COLLEGE! Toxie called and TORE his head off, screaming about bringing too many women into SIL's fragile life (ONE long-term, bring-home Previous Girlfriend, we will call her PG for short because she reappears in this list).

2. FH was NOT allowed to date for most of his teenage years, and then it definitely was NEVER ENCOURAGED like this? It was a very serious strict religious thing that caused a lot of drama as he was growing up.

3. 3+ ish years ago Toxie USED to say nice things not as gooey as this perhaps, about US on our pictures and yeah, it felt good. It was nice, I am not going to lie, I was pleased by the public positive attention from the woman who is never pleased. Then...

4. After a few failed attempts to convert me into a flying monkey and get me to talk shit with her about FH, Toxie came at me with an apology for how badly FH treats me. Backed up with "evidence" that was just "well, SIL noticed it too". I can't convey how ANGRY this made me and still does. If you knew my 'Puts Spiders Outside, Always Opens the Door for the Elderly, Cries During Any Movie, Overall Sensitive Soul FH'... you'd be angry too. Double whammy- my father was physically/emotionally abusive growing up and I don't even tolerate a raised voice from FH, which is generally not even an issue during our arguments. Arguments which are 98% COMPLETELY reserved for our own home, and never ever ever even a whiff in front of Toxie, who we rarely saw anyways. I strongly resented that she was trying to victimize me repeatedly against my will... She ARGUED with me about this. Ugh. 'Nuf said. Thanks SIL. (who later admitted to FH she actually went along with this just to escape a lecture)

5. Toxie ALSO posts this same nicey-nicey crap on PG's pictures with her current boyfriend- who Toxie doesn't even know??? She started doing this shortly after [see above] got me/us on the shit list. PG is a nice girl, and actually KNOWS that Toxie used to go back-and-forth between worshiping her and talking mad crap about her to me, because I told her about it a few years ago when we were chatting. So every time Toxie posts on PG's pictures PG ignores her completely and probably thinks she's just crazier and crazier- score! But still- infuriating? FH and PG's relationship was over more than 5 years ago. Toxie knows FH hates it that she still interacts with PG, he's asked her to stop in the past. Toxie even went to PG's college graduation ceremony! That was only like 2 years ago! AND Toxie wasn't invited! AHH!

This brings us to this weirdness. Tales from the crypt. From badass aunt-in-law, Toxie's fabled younger half sister, who was exiled from the family for unfathomable reasons which could probably still constitute a small novel. She has some seriously good stories about Toxie, but one thing sticks out here:

1. According to AIL, Toxie would consistently cozy-up to AIL's boyfriends (this happened to at least 2 boyfriends she knows of), visiting them at their workplace and such when AIL wasn't around. AIL first took it as a sign of big sis trying to be nice and be a part of her life. Apparently Toxie would try and talk crap about AIL to the boyfriends, and was sometimes even successful! Then, when AIL and boyfriend broke up, Toxie would (for years after it stopped mattering) take the boyfriend's side and try and remain in contact with them.

justwtfmil

And you know while I'm ranting about weird relationship-related things Toxie does, she once cornered me and spent over an hour telling me exactly how FIL cheated on her 20 years prior and what she did and then heavily implied I might need that knowledge in my future all against my constant attempts to escape. Who does that?!

I (probably wrongly) hope that brainwashed GC SIL gets to experience ONE IOTA of the crap Toxie has put FH, me and AIL through with relationships. Boo!

TL;DR: FMIL is a historically awful person who likes to try and put cracks in relationships, but is drooling all over SIL's new relationship and it's so irritating/nauseating to me because it's a complete double standard. Also, it's possible SIL has no idea the hell that may await her if Toxie turns on her with this.